There are 5 positions on the offensive line

[JohnC]

At the very least he made some decent choices on Woods-Levitre-Hangartner, although you can usually find decent guards after round 2 and save those first two rounds to find the tackles.

 

There is a reason the second highest paid players on teams behind the QB is the left tackle.The Buffalo Bills are trying to ignore that fact and plug in inexperienced inexpensive players that will never get the job done.

 

Smart organizations know how to build a team. I'm not going to complain about the addition of Woods and Levitre, although they did dedicate high picks for the guard positions which usually can be filled with lower picks. Using a first round pick on an LOT makes sense because it is a tough position to fill. In most drafts there is an early run on good LTs.

 

In my view the Bills are years away from being a playoff team. They need to address the OL sooner so they can go on to address the other multiple needs. When the OL is an object of ridicule for the past 15 yrs then there comes a point where you have to just go ahead and fix it. Until that is done our offense is going to struggle.

[Celtic_soulja]

First....Hangartner was near the top in the league with giving up sacks...only gave up 1.5 sacks this year...anything under 2 is pretty damn good...then our RB's averaged 4/carry...which is also pretty good...Levitre was AWESOME and named to the All rookie NFL team...didn't give up any sacks I could find...Wood gave up 3 which is pretty decent for a rookie...Cornell Green only gave up one sack last season...that gives us a pretty solid four...but then you have the LT position...D Bell in his 8 games gave up 4 sacks...which would put him among the league's worst projecting 8 plus sacks in a full season...Jon Scott was not much better with limited starts giving up 3.5 sacks...Butler only gave up 1 sack :0( COME BACK....Gaither gave up 2 sacks last season...COME TO BUFFALO...

 

So you are looking at an OLine that was victimized by the poor play of the Tackle positions...the interior held up just fine...Hangartner, Wood, and Levitre make up a really good interior...Levitre can also play Tackle I am sure...so I wouldn't be against bringin in Iupati...anyway back to the point...so we have a C and two G's that can play some football...I believe Meredith can be something good at RT behind Green while he develops...Green is a solid starter for now...but we are still at a loss for LT...D Bell is horrible...he gets beat by EVERYONE...and can't even line up correctly...he stinks...BAD...our O Line looked like hell because of that one real weakness at the Tackle spot...so...we bring in Gaither and/or Draft a decent O Lineman and the rest of the line will look like monsters all of a sudden...the thing that makes an O Line so complex is it's only as strong as the weakest link...one guy getting owned consistently makes the other four irrelevant...but we only need one IMO to make a complete turnaround on our OLine and subsequently our offense in general.

[rstencel]

I don't consider Hangarner a good starter. If you had 4 solid guys around him he could be valuable due to his intelligence, but he doesn't have the physical strength to take on stronger DTs and NTs. I'd also be surprised if Wood is back to full strength this year, however he and Levitre were the two I was referring to as filled positions.

 

I don't know that much about Green, but from what I've read he's more of a backup who was one of the lesser linemen on a less than stellar Oakland squad.

 

Have a feeling they picked this guy up to fill in at lg if they don't get their LT in draft, and will keep Levitre as LT. He is a bit slow for tackle, but may be descent as a guard.

 

Hangartner was actually a good guard when he played for Carolina, against some pretty good tackles. He played much better in the guard spot than center while there. When he snaps he has a hard time getting his arms extended for his blocks and can get bull rushed. When he was playing guard he rarely was hurt by bull rush, as was able to control with arms extended and keep them off his body. Was surprised that Bills put him at center and moved Wood to guard. Woods looked so natural at center, and Hangartner seems to struggle getting out of stance at times.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

stop with the blind-side horse-hockey

 

Watkins played RT because he was not good enough to play LT - which is where most of the elite pass rushers come from and you need to agile and strong to handle them

Try again buddy...

 

The most important spot on the offensive line is the tackle who protects the BLIND-SIDE of the QB.

 

 

If we got a left handed QB, it wouldn't really help much to get a LT...and keep the blind-side exposed. He would still get killed.

 

 

 

I understand where you are coming from...most LT's are most important because their QB is right handed. But with a left handed QB, the RT would be most important.

[Spiderweb]

Losing Butler sucks.

 

I'm curious as to which positions the OP considers set. OP?

 

While Butler seems to have gained stature since he was injured and then retired, he wasn't the second coming.....

 

I would much prefer he was here, however, we may just find that Green will be every bit as good at RT as Butler "may" have been, at least for the coming year. Even Butler was playing, I just don't recall anyone saying how tough our O-line was. We all know it's been a problem area for years.

 

Here's to hoping that this year we begin to see real improvement and that Wood make a successful return this year, even if he doesn't immediately start. In fact, I doubt he'll be ready for the opener, but he's young, so one never knows.

[tennesseeboy]

We go nowhere without a good offensive line. There are some very solid offensive linemen in this draft, and if we don't use the draft to upgrade the line, we should at least be active on the market to get significant improvement.

[Sisyphean Bills]

We've seen guys like Kris Dielman and Jeff Saturday go from UDFA to the Pro Bowl as interior OL. Rare is the OT who can make the transition to the pros from late round/UDFA type and be a solid starter. The only one I can think of off-hand, particularly LT, is Jason Peters or perhaps Donald Penn. OT's need to have better lateral movement and aren't hidden on the interior OL.

Jason Peters was always a freak athletically, but he could have easily fallen through the cracks because of his lack of preparation (in college) and questionable motivations, focus (which became clear when Smithers started throwing money at below average line mates).

 

Peters needed to land on a team that was desperate enough to keep him for his ability and despite of how incredibly raw he was. He also needed a great teacher to coach him up from near-zero to the NFL quickly. The Bills were the perfect team for him; they've had trouble putting together an OL for over a decade and are continuously desperate to find any talent at OL; and, they had Jim McNally, one of the best OL coaches in the sport. Fortunately for Jason, he is once again being coached by one of the great OL coaches in the NFL, so maybe he can regain his focus and reach his potential. (Though many here hope he fails.)

[PDaDdy]

I see a lot of posts debating which is more important: LT or QB. Obviously QB is the answer, but that discussion ignores the Bills situation at the moment.

 

A lot of guys point to LTs on other teams like playoff teams w/ mediocre LTs and mediocre teams with good LTs. That's kind of simple minded thinking.

 

If you have 3 or 4 good linemen, you can get away with a mediocre player on the line. But when your C is Hangartner, your RT is Cornhole Green, and your RG just had his leg turned into silly putty a few months ago, you have a different situation.

 

For a QB, even a great QB, to perform you have to have at least a mediocre line. That being said, if Clausen is available at #9, whatever, you won't hear me complain, but without some serious upgrades to the line, 2010 will look a lot like 2009, and Mr. Franchise might just get David Carred.

 

 

I fought this battle already. QB is hugely important but without the line they will get killed. LT is the first and most obvious step towards developing a competent OL. Anyone who thinks that we currently have the answer for that position on our roster needs to put the crack pipe down.

 

Hangartner was hyped by the front office when he got here. He's smart. A journey man. Blah blah blah. Long story short he has been a guy who has been in and out of peoples starting line up and is a stop gap measure. Woods BETTER develop into our starting center this year or next or he was a horrible pick. Who drafts a career center in the first round and makes him a guard? What a waste of a pick. If Wood does get moved to center we will need a right guard. Depending on how quickly Wood makes the transition back to his natural position we may need that guy this year or next.

[Captain Hindsight]

While Butler seems to have gained stature since he was injured and then retired, he wasn't the second coming.....

I dont think anyone says he was. But he was a solid lineman that could play a few different positions...Its a big loss IMO

[Celtic_soulja]

Butler gave up a whopping 1 sack last season...maybe he's not the second coming and he wasn't gifted enough to play LT...but he was a good lineman...he was a solid RT that didn't get beat there...so why not sing his praises?...especially since D Bell was the LT and gave up a sack every other play and got a penalty on the ones he didn't

[Thoner7]

First....Hangartner was near the top in the league with giving up sacks...only gave up 1.5 sacks this year...anything under 2 is pretty damn good...then our RB's averaged 4/carry...which is also pretty good...Levitre was AWESOME and named to the All rookie NFL team...didn't give up any sacks I could find...Wood gave up 3 which is pretty decent for a rookie...Cornell Green only gave up one sack last season...that gives us a pretty solid four...but then you have the LT position...D Bell in his 8 games gave up 4 sacks...which would put him among the league's worst projecting 8 plus sacks in a full season...Jon Scott was not much better with limited starts giving up 3.5 sacks...Butler only gave up 1 sack :0( COME BACK....Gaither gave up 2 sacks last season...COME TO BUFFALO...

 

So you are looking at an OLine that was victimized by the poor play of the Tackle positions...the interior held up just fine...Hangartner, Wood, and Levitre make up a really good interior...Levitre can also play Tackle I am sure...so I wouldn't be against bringin in Iupati...anyway back to the point...so we have a C and two G's that can play some football...I believe Meredith can be something good at RT behind Green while he develops...Green is a solid starter for now...but we are still at a loss for LT...D Bell is horrible...he gets beat by EVERYONE...and can't even line up correctly...he stinks...BAD...our O Line looked like hell because of that one real weakness at the Tackle spot...so...we bring in Gaither and/or Draft a decent O Lineman and the rest of the line will look like monsters all of a sudden...the thing that makes an O Line so complex is it's only as strong as the weakest link...one guy getting owned consistently makes the other four irrelevant...but we only need one IMO to make a complete turnaround on our OLine and subsequently our offense in general.

 

Hnagartner was the worst rated C in terms of pass blocking - according to some stat website which was in a thread a while back (the thread had Peters like 8th worst in terms of LTs). The worst in the entire league, 32/32. Im not sure how that leads you to believe he was good.

 

He wasnt much better run blocking either.

[Spiderweb]

Butler gave up a whopping 1 sack last season...maybe he's not the second coming and he wasn't gifted enough to play LT...but he was a good lineman...he was a solid RT that didn't get beat there...so why not sing his praises?...especially since D Bell was the LT and gave up a sack every other play and got a penalty on the ones he didn't

 

 

Not that's a real comeback. Heck, I liked Butler, but second coming, he wasn't, but to cite a 1-sack season last year? How ridiculous this "fabulous" stat is given the fact he went out for the year in only the second game of the season (against Tampa Bay). Jeez.......get real.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

From what I have seen of him, Cornell Green isnt bad.

Thank you Stevie Wonder

[Thurman#1]

Try again buddy...

 

The most important spot on the offensive line is the tackle who protects the BLIND-SIDE of the QB.

 

 

If we got a left handed QB, it wouldn't really help much to get a LT...and keep the blind-side exposed. He would still get killed.

 

 

 

I understand where you are coming from...most LT's are most important because their QB is right handed. But with a left handed QB, the RT would be most important.

 

 

 

No, even for left-handed QBs, the LT is far more important in the NFL and in college ball.

 

Because even against lefties, defenses don't switch their best rushers to the blind side. Even on a team with a lefty QB, the LT faces the hyper-athletic rushers, the seriously dangerous guys.

 

Now, having a left DOES make your RT more important than an RT on most teams, but blind side or not, RTs are facing guys like Chris Kelsay. Doubt it? Check the salaries of the RTs and LTs on teams with lefty QBs. The LTs are simply better paid and better players.

 

Another example, Harris Barton and Steve Wallace didn't switch when Montana left and the left-handed Young arrived.

[Thurman#1]

Gaither to play LT...Adams to play RT....draft a NT or trade down to do it...and run the hell out of the ball

 

 

The Ravens don't actually want to trade LT Gaither. It just wouldn't make sense for them.

[Thurman#1]

Thanks Dan from Utica, Tampa!

 

I suppose the point is valid, but I'm glad to see we've at least built a more sturdy depth chart, in the meantime.

 

Our first pick will be on one line or another, unless it's Morgan, which is also HIGHLY likely.

 

 

Or Clausen, clearly. Or one of the LBs.

[Thurman#1]

I see a lot of posts debating which is more important: LT or QB. Obviously QB is the answer, but that discussion ignores the Bills situation at the moment.

 

A lot of guys point to LTs on other teams like playoff teams w/ mediocre LTs and mediocre teams with good LTs. That's kind of simple minded thinking.

 

If you have 3 or 4 good linemen, you can get away with a mediocre player on the line. But when your C is Hangartner, your RT is Cornhole Green, and your RG just had his leg turned into silly putty a few months ago, you have a different situation.

 

For a QB, even a great QB, to perform you have to have at least a mediocre line. That being said, if Clausen is available at #9, whatever, you won't hear me complain, but without some serious upgrades to the line, 2010 will look a lot like 2009, and Mr. Franchise might just get David Carred.

 

 

Some really good points, but I would note that it took David Carr three or four years to get David Carred. If we can't build a line in another year or two with two full drafts minus the first-rounder this year, and including Wood and Levitre, that would call into doubt the FO's competence.

[Thurman#1]

Ok, Watkins is added!

I'm willing to put Bell's problems on his health last year. If the new S&C coaches can get him healthy for a full season he may begin to show the promise I think he has, at least I hope so.

 

 

 

Wow, you're a lot more, what, hopeful than I am. IMHO if he's ever going to be any good, it won't be for at least another year or two. IMHO, he showed last year a total inability to meet even minimum NFL standards for an OL.

[Thurman#1]

First....Hangartner was near the top in the league with giving up sacks...only gave up 1.5 sacks this year...anything under 2 is pretty damn good...then our RB's averaged 4/carry...which is also pretty good...Levitre was AWESOME and named to the All rookie NFL team...didn't give up any sacks I could find...Wood gave up 3 which is pretty decent for a rookie...Cornell Green only gave up one sack last season...that gives us a pretty solid four...but then you have the LT position...D Bell in his 8 games gave up 4 sacks...which would put him among the league's worst projecting 8 plus sacks in a full season...Jon Scott was not much better with limited starts giving up 3.5 sacks...Butler only gave up 1 sack :0( COME BACK....Gaither gave up 2 sacks last season...COME TO BUFFALO...

 

So you are looking at an OLine that was victimized by the poor play of the Tackle positions...the interior held up just fine...Hangartner, Wood, and Levitre make up a really good interior...Levitre can also play Tackle I am sure...so I wouldn't be against bringin in Iupati...anyway back to the point...so we have a C and two G's that can play some football...I believe Meredith can be something good at RT behind Green while he develops...Green is a solid starter for now...but we are still at a loss for LT...D Bell is horrible...he gets beat by EVERYONE...and can't even line up correctly...he stinks...BAD...our O Line looked like hell because of that one real weakness at the Tackle spot...so...we bring in Gaither and/or Draft a decent O Lineman and the rest of the line will look like monsters all of a sudden...the thing that makes an O Line so complex is it's only as strong as the weakest link...one guy getting owned consistently makes the other four irrelevant...but we only need one IMO to make a complete turnaround on our OLine and subsequently our offense in general.

 

 

 

Judging a guy only by sacks just doesn't give a full picture, partly because the "sacks allowed" stat is really a "sacks guessed at" stat when it's really not clear whose fault it is, and partly because they still blame the OL when the QB holds the ball for any amount of time and gets sacked. Literally, if your man sacked the QB after 15 seconds, you would still get a sack against you on that horrible "sacks allowed" stat. And if your man totally smoked you but the QB evaded him and got sacked by another guy's man because he ran right into him with your guy in pursuit, hey, "sacks allowed" says "no harm, no foul."

 

It also gives you no idea how the guy was at run blocking and the other parts of his job.

 

You have to look at fuller pictures of guys, like the ones you get when you look at footballoutsiders.com and profootballfocus.com. And Hangartner doesn't come out looking very good by these measures. he led the league for centers with 16 QB pressures, for instance, according to profootballfocus.com. They have him as a pretty solid run blocker last year, with a score of PLUS 4.3, putting him 15th in the league, out of 34. But pass blocking is another story. He has a MINUS 10.0, worst of all centers in the league.

 

They list him with three sacks, by the way, which puts him at 32nd out of 34 centers. Two sacks would be very good indeed for an LT, but for a center, it puts you into a 9-way tie for 22nd in the league, below average. Three sacks puts you alone in 32nd out of 34 centers, ahead of only Justin Hartwig with 7 and John Sullivan with 4. Nobody but Hartwig, Sullivan and Hangartner had more than two sacks.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

[Thurman#1]

Not that's a real comeback. Heck, I liked Butler, but second coming, he wasn't, but to cite a 1-sack season last year? How ridiculous this "fabulous" stat is given the fact he went out for the year in only the second game of the season (against Tampa Bay). Jeez.......get real.

 

 

And yet, at the end of those two games, he was our top lineman, according to profootballfocus.

 

Butler was our best, once Peters was gone. He didn't get to show much, and now he's out of the conversation, but losing him set us up with yet another hole to fill.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?...p;playerid=3088

 

The guy could really run block.