The ONLY reason we only won 6 games is....

[PDaDdy]

One thing I know about this is if we had continued to feed ML druring that Toronto Jets games we could have gotten a different outcome. Our offense was sputtering. But then once we took over late in the first half I think it was. We put together a 60 yard or so TD driver with ML getting 3 or 4 carries for about 45 of those yards capping it with a 25 yard run for a TD or something like that. Then he didn't get hardly any if any carries after that. I understand he was in the dog house and Fred was our man, etc. But come on, the guy was got. Feed him.

 

Well one thing we can be sure of is that our previous administration was not guilty of having a great eye for talent. LT debacle, RB who can't score TDs, every QB on the roster, Byrd ONLY started due to injury and he was one of our best guys on either side of the ball, Maybin, etc.

[muffmonster]

we didn't give this guy 300 carries...only 120 booooooo....

 

I wish he was the same RB as shown in that clip burning the Bengals....but he is not. All he does now is either run right into the line, or crab walk his way to the sideline.

 

Not sure which game, but last year he broke a run but was so darn SLOW he got caught. All I was thinking, is pretty much any other running back would have easily ran that one up the sidelines and in for a TD.

 

I would love If he can get back in shape and get rid of all the nonsense, but last year Fred was certainly the better back who deserved the majority of carries.

[Mr. WEO]

I knew you couldn't answer a direct question with a "yes" or "no". A testament to your integrity or lack there of. I will do what you are unwilling to and answer your questions.

 

Yes, in 2005 Bettis was the better back for the steelers.

Yes, in 2008 Lendale White was the better back for the Titans.

 

See how easy it is to answer a question as opposed to answering a question with a question? See how easy it is to respond with a yes or a no instead of a paragraph that never addresses the points that the person you are debating with made?

 

Yards are very important but you don't want the offensive equivalent of the bend don't break defense. The "gain yards but don't score" offense. Yards are nice and they move the offense along but if you aren't getting into the end zone it doesn't amount to jack ****. I think you're smart enough to get the fact that points are what wins games.

 

By the way, in 2009, Chris Johnson by that time was clearly the better back for the Titans. Also, one could easily argue that Bettis was always better than Parker. Bettis is a shoe in for the Hall of Fame. Meanwhile the Steelers drafted 2 RBs to try to help their run game and currently it is unlikely that Parker will be a Steeler and nobody is beating down his door for his services. So...there ya go.

I answered you---your thought is senseless. You say a guy who is brought in to hop over the goal line after the rest of the team (i. e. the other back) has driven down the field into the red zone is "better" because he is scoring reveals to me a guy who doesn't understand much about the game.

Your response to my example shows why.

Can you please tell us the all important stats you are using that clearly makes Jackson the better RB? The stat that I like to look at is TDs. You know, the one that puts points on the board? But hey, that's just me. I like when we win games.

 

 

They both had 2 rushing TDs last year. Jackson had far more yards, hence you would have to agree that Jackson was the better back.

 

End of story.

[PDaDdy]

I wish he was the same RB as shown in that clip burning the Bengals....but he is not. All he does now is either run right into the line, or crab walk his way to the sideline.

 

Not sure which game, but last year he broke a run but was so darn SLOW he got caught. All I was thinking, is pretty much any other running back would have easily ran that one up the sidelines and in for a TD.

 

I would love If he can get back in shape and get rid of all the nonsense, but last year Fred was certainly the better back who deserved the majority of carries.

 

 

I hear ya. I was TOTALLY impressed with the 2 measly rushing TDs he had for the whole year. Don't let what you think of Marshawn off the field cloud your vision of what is very obvious on the field. I like them both. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. ONE of them gets into the end zone!!!!! That "ONE" is Marshawn.

[PDaDdy]

I answered you---your thought is senseless.

 

So for clarity what were your answers again to these questions?

 

"So other than attempting to extrapolate my reasoning and logic to a ridiculous unrelated situation I assume you agree with me then?"

 

"Or should I assume that somehow you feel the guy that puts half the points on the board is the better back?"

 

You say a guy who is brought in to hop over the goal line after the rest of the team (i. e. the other back) has driven down the field into the red zone is "better" because he is scoring reveals to me a guy who doesn't understand much about the game.

 

You have a real reading comprehension problem I think you should get some guidance on it. Can you please tell me where I said the guy that hops over the goal line is the better back? Apparently if all you think Bettis did was hop over the goal line which it would seem you think is a trivial feat you didn't watch many Steelers games. If Willy was a better scorer why wasn't he in in the red zone? The red zone is a 20 yard stretch of field ending at the goal line. Bettis wasn't only a red zone option, nor was Willy only a between the 20's guy. What your statement tells me is that you don't understand that scoring is what wins games and you bring in your best RB(scorer) when it is time to do so!

 

As far as Lendale White goes I hardly think 772 yards was all in goal line work. Come on man!

 

Your response to my example shows why.

 

 

 

They both had 2 rushing TDs last year. Jackson had far more yards, hence you would have to agree that Jackson was the better back.

 

NO! Come on man! You should be ashamed to even ask that question. You have to know that people aren't that stupid right? Jackson also had far more carries to get those yards. Why do you think I based all of my comparisons on when each RB was the actual starter? You do know in 2009 Marshawn was the backup and he was suspended for the first 3 weeks right? Freddy as the starter got 2 rushing TDs. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR ANY STARTING RB IN THE LEAGUE!!!! When Marshawn was the starter in 2008 he had 8 TDs to Freddie's 3. So when the roles were reversed Mashawn killed him! If you would quit hating on Lynch and look at the numbers, he puts points on the board. Points on the board win games. End of Story..

[T master]

we didn't give this guy 300 carries...only 120 booooooo....

 

 

Marshawn just flat couldn't or didn't want to get it done last year . Even with the line we had Freddy still got over 1000 yds & if he would've had the same amount of carries as he had in the first 3 games before Marshawn came back when his carries went down he would've been up in yardage with Tomas Jones . Freddy is the Thurman of this team , attitude and all . Just shows what he's all about on the field , no grill , no dancin , just pure performance that Action Jackson !!!

[PDaDdy]

Marshawn just flat couldn't or didn't want to get it done last year . Even with the line we had Freddy still got over 1000 yds & if he would've had the same amount of carries as he had in the first 3 games before Marshawn came back when his carries went down he would've been up in yardage with Tomas Jones . Freddy is the Thurman of this team , attitude and all . Just shows what he's all about on the field , no grill , no dancin , just pure performance that Action Jackson !!!

 

 

LOL. Too bad Jackson couldn't get his "action" into the end zone. I like Freddie but are you really trying to compare the TD machine Thurman with fast freddie? Man you are desperate to reclaim past glory if you are going there.

[Mr. WEO]

Go back and look at Bettis's last season. He never started a game. In 2 of the games he scored in, he his longest run was no more than 7 yards. In the other scoring games his long runs were 10-12 yards. He had more than 10 carries in only 3 games. In 4 games he averaged less than 2 yards a carry.

 

If you actually watched any Steelers games, it would have obvious to you that at that point in his career (no way he's a first ballot HOF) he was being used a goal to go RB.

 

The rest of your nuttiness I will leave undisturbed as a testament to itself.

[billsfreak]

I personally had such high hopes for Lynch after his first two seasons, but over the past 12+ months he has been such a disappointment both on and off the field. If he came in, with the right attitude, at the right playing weight, he is a better back than Fred Jackson is, but that is alot of "if's" for someone who has shown to have a penchant for stupid decisions. Lynch used to run with a mission, was exciting and one of the toughest backs I have ever seen to bring down, but last year he looked more like Cinderella dancing around. If someone can get the Thugness and arrogance out of his head and get him to commit to football 100% he will be, by far the better back, but that is unlikely at this point. Fred Jackson had a really good year, but the one area that his game has been weak, is at the goal line. I don't remember him ever being able to punch it in from the one or two yard line, he consistently gets stuffed. He is a better back with room on the field to manuever, he is not a power back like Lynch can be. I think it would benefit the Bills to find the future at RB, but for now and when all is said and done, and reality is considered, the only real option is Jackson, because unless a miracle is performed, Lynch is working his way out of Buffalo and the NFL.

[PDaDdy]

Go back and look at Bettis's last season. He never started a game. In 2 of the games he scored in, he his longest run was no more than 7 yards. In the other scoring games his long runs were 10-12 yards. He had more than 10 carries in only 3 games. In 4 games he averaged less than 2 yards a carry.

 

If you actually watched any Steelers games, it would have obvious to you that at that point in his career (no way he's a first ballot HOF) he was being used a goal to go RB.

 

The rest of your nuttiness I will leave undisturbed as a testament to itself.

 

Explain it however you like you don't have the integrity to answer direct questions asked of you. I continually give what I ask and if someone asks me a direct question I give a direct answer. This is why my "nuttiness" is credible because I am not afraid to give a straight answer. You do yourself a disservice. How do you expect anyone to believe what you say when your views do not hold up against the light of day and can't withstand scrutiny or questions to clarify your stance.

 

Your opinion means pretty much nothing and you of course missed the point of my statement. The stats you quote for Jerome Bettis are likely to be close to being true but you don't understand what it is to be a good RB. If Willy Parker was so good why wasn't he in there in the red zone more? Don't you want your best RB in the game when you are closest to scoring? Not that you will answer those questions because you KNOW if you answer honestly with a "yes" it directly refutes the BS drivel you are trying to get people to buy. You are a complete joke. A man who is actually right will answer any and all questions regarding his beliefs because he knows he is right and doesn't fear scrutiny.

 

Let the Marshawn hate go buddy!! It's so petty that you are trying to paint a picture of reality that matches your beliefs instead of seeing what is so painfully obvious to anyone with a brain......when each is the starter Marshawn scores TWICE as many TDs as Fred Jackson. Period....end of story....FACT....not up for discussion!!

 

A RB's job is a bit more than just score TDs but I think by far we can agree that getting into the end zone and keeping the other guy out is the whole point of the game.

[PDaDdy]

I personally had such high hopes for Lynch after his first two seasons, but over the past 12+ months he has been such a disappointment both on and off the field. If he came in, with the right attitude, at the right playing weight, he is a better back than Fred Jackson is, but that is alot of "if's" for someone who has shown to have a penchant for stupid decisions. Lynch used to run with a mission, was exciting and one of the toughest backs I have ever seen to bring down, but last year he looked more like Cinderella dancing around. If someone can get the Thugness and arrogance out of his head and get him to commit to football 100% he will be, by far the better back, but that is unlikely at this point. Fred Jackson had a really good year, but the one area that his game has been weak, is at the goal line. I don't remember him ever being able to punch it in from the one or two yard line, he consistently gets stuffed. He is a better back with room on the field to manuever, he is not a power back like Lynch can be. I think it would benefit the Bills to find the future at RB, but for now and when all is said and done, and reality is considered, the only real option is Jackson, because unless a miracle is performed, Lynch is working his way out of Buffalo and the NFL.

 

 

Last year was indeed a disappointment for both Lynch and Jackson in my opinion. I agree that they are different types of RBs but when not suspended as the starter Lynch was more productive producing TDs. It is really sad to see some people that say Jackson is the better back even though the guy can't score TDs. That is how much some of our fans let their personal feelings get in the way of reality. Somehow they get it in their thick little skulls that Lynch, the guy that scores twice as many TDs when he is the starter, is some how not the best RB on the team.

 

People jumped up and down for the 2 years previous. "Give Jackson a chance" , "Lynch is a thug" (boarder line racist comment when only applied to black players by the way). Well, Jackson had the whole year to start and netted a whopping 2 rushing TDs for the entire year.

 

Any fan that is ok with that and thinks he is the best RB on the team deserves 10+ years of loosing.

[muffmonster]

Last year was indeed a disappointment for both Lynch and Jackson in my opinion. I agree that they are different types of RBs but when not suspended as the starter Lynch was more productive producing TDs. It is really sad to see some people that say Jackson is the better back even though the guy can't score TDs. That is how much some of our fans let their personal feelings get in the way of reality. Somehow they get it in their thick little skulls that Lynch, the guy that scores twice as many TDs when he is the starter, is some how not the best RB on the team.

 

People jumped up and down for the 2 years previous. "Give Jackson a chance" , "Lynch is a thug" (boarder line racist comment when only applied to black players by the way). Well, Jackson had the whole year to start and netted a whopping 2 rushing TDs for the entire year.

 

Any fan that is ok with that and thinks he is the best RB on the team deserves 10+ years of loosing.

 

Yah well Jackson threw for a TD and had 2 receiving touchdowns. Not to mention 1,014 kick return yards. Don't you understand that Jackson was the only consistent offense the Bills had last year. The dude is a selfless work horse.

 

There is no way you can argue Lynch was better then Jackson last year. Maybe this year he will get his priorities straight and be the back he can be, we will have to wait and see.

[dave mcbride]

Rushing TDs were a completely irrelevant stat until fantasy football arrived. I mean, no one cared. Fantasy football changed all of that. Whether a RB gets a lot of rushing TDs or not has nothing to do with his productivity or talent - it just means that the team is handing the ball off to him near the end zone. Barry Sanders didn't score many TDs, and the way some people think, it means he wasn't as good a player as Marcus Allen. He was of course twice as good as Allen ...

[PDaDdy]

Yah well Jackson threw for a TD and had 2 receiving touchdowns. Not to mention 1,014 kick return yards. Don't you understand that Jackson was the only consistent offense the Bills had last year. The dude is a selfless work horse.

 

There is no way you can argue Lynch was better then Jackson last year. Maybe this year he will get his priorities straight and be the back he can be, we will have to wait and see.

 

 

I know Jackson threw a TD. I saw the same play from Lynch in 2008. Always nice to get one that way. Jackson also had 2 receiving TDs this year. None last year by the way. I have no luck getting direct responses to questions but do you think that 2 rushing TDs is acceptable for any teams starting RB? I like Freddie but that is just not good enough. It's not all his fault teams play the game not individual players.

 

I agree for the most part that our running game and specifically Jackson was all we had this year. Jackson could have been the better back in 2009 but so could Lynch. That is a tough thing to try to gauge. We'll never know because only one guy can be the starter. What I do know is that when Lynch was the starter in 2007 and 2008 he performed better than Jackson did in 2009. Lynch in my opinion was screwed up by his suspension, missing time with the team, missing the work with yet another offensive coordinator and variation on the scheme. He's doesn't impress me as a road scholar so I would imagine he needs time in the system to get it right. This season he also tried to come in with more muscle mass and I think his speed and shiftiness suffered.

[PDaDdy]

Rushing TDs were a completely irrelevant stat until fantasy football arrived. I mean, no one cared. Fantasy football changed all of that. Whether a RB gets a lot of rushing TDs or not has nothing to do with his productivity or talent - it just means that the team is handing the ball off to him near the end zone. Barry Sanders didn't score many TDs, and the way some people think, it means he wasn't as good a player as Marcus Allen. He was of course twice as good as Allen ...

 

 

ROFLOL!!!! I don't think I haven't heard anything that funny and ridiculous in a long time. STOP SWINGING FROM JACKSON NUTZ AND HATING ON LYNCH!!!! "Rushing TDs are irrelevant"? ...STOP!...you're killing me! You're not really that clueless are you? So basically your defense of Jackson as a #1 RB is, rushing TDs don't matter and he got a lot of yards in the return game? Sounds like an ace special teamer to me but not a starting RB.

 

 

NOTE** Please reference my comments about comparing stats for RBs on different teams, different eras, different opponents etc not being valid.

[muffmonster]

I know Jackson threw a TD. I saw the same play from Lynch in 2008. Always nice to get one that way. Jackson also had 2 receiving TDs this year. None last year by the way. I have no luck getting direct responses to questions but do you think that 2 rushing TDs is acceptable for any teams starting RB? I like Freddie but that is just not good enough. It's not all his fault teams play the game not individual players.

 

I agree for the most part that our running game and specifically Jackson was all we had this year. Jackson could have been the better back in 2009 but so could Lynch. That is a tough thing to try to gauge. We'll never know because only one guy can be the starter. What I do know is that when Lynch was the starter in 2007 and 2008 he performed better than Jackson did in 2009. Lynch in my opinion was screwed up by his suspension, missing time with the team, missing the work with yet another offensive coordinator and variation on the scheme. He's doesn't impress me as a road scholar so I would imagine he needs time in the system to get it right. This season he also tried to come in with more muscle mass and I think his speed and shiftiness suffered.

 

I agree 2 TDs from our starting RB is not acceptable. Really though this is just a product of our pathetic offense as a whole last year. The Bills could not get 1st downs and get into the redzone.

[mrags]

I love all the people on this board that love to stroke Marshawn as this "amazing" RB that is the best thing since OJ Simpson. I will say this is not a post where I try to compare Marshawn and Freddy. My opinion is that Freddy (as old as he is and with the small amount he has left in the tank) is a better back at this point.

 

Lets start off the field first. The guy has always been a trouble maker.

-June of 06, Lynch was shot at inside his vehicle outside his high school alma mater.

-January of 07, Accused of sexual assualt on his former girlfriend

-June of 08, Involved in a hit and run

-February of 2009, Arrested for an unregistered loaded weapon while smoking marijuana in a vehicle

-December of 2009, Accused of stealing $20 from a wife of a Buffalo Policeman

 

Now not every incident was his fault, nor was every incident that big of an issue. The stealing $20 thing sounds like a joke gone bad. The shooting and sexual assualt sounds like wrong place wrong time and a drunken night trying to make up with an ex turned bad (weve all done that, I think). But the point is the guy cant stay out of trouble. Every year since 06 he has had some kind of issue with the law, his fault or not. Hes already had a 3 game suspension and is only a drunken night on Chippewa away from getting a year slapped on him from the Commissioner.

 

Now to his on the field accomplishments. He is average at best.

2007: 13 Games Played, 280 Att, 1,115 yards, 4.0 avg, 7 TD's, 18 rec, 184 rec yards, Ranked 11th in Rushing Yards

2008: 15 Games Played, 250 Att, 1,036 yards, 4.1 avg, 8 TD's, 47 rec, 300 rec yards, Ranked 13th in Rushing Yards

2009: 13 Games Played, 120 Att, 450 yards, 3.8 avg, 2 TD's, 28 rec, 179 rec yards, Ranked 45th in Rushing Yards

 

He has arguably gotten worse over his career with yards, TD's, Rec's, Attempts

 

Lynch has shown that he has a hard time hitting the hole behind his blockers as he often runs up to their backs and trys to push entire piles by himself, all while tip-toe'ing at the line of scrimmage and not making clear cut decisions when he gets the ball in his hands. Suprisingly its not much different from his decisions off the field that often get him in trouble.

 

Lynch has all the talent in a RB that any team would/could ask for. But his dedication to his career, and his bad decisions may cost him that very same career. If he makes one more bad mistake he will be out of football for a year and that might as well be for good.

[dave mcbride]

ROFLOL!!!! I don't think I haven't heard anything that funny and ridiculous in a long time. STOP SWINGING FROM JACKSON NUTZ AND HATING ON LYNCH!!!! "Rushing TDs are irrelevant"? ...STOP!...you're killing me! You're not really that clueless are you? So basically your defense of Jackson as a #1 RB is, rushing TDs don't matter and he got a lot of yards in the return game? Sounds like an ace special teamer to me but not a starting RB.

 

 

NOTE** Please reference my comments about comparing stats for RBs on different teams, different eras, different opponents etc not being valid.

You appear to have a reading comprehension problem. I said nothing about either Lynch or Jackson. In fact, I don't even care, and don't have a dog in this fight. What I was saying is that as someone who grew up in the 1970s and 1980s, I can state with complete confidence that TDs were considered a negligible stat for RBs. That was because it is correct -- once a team is inside the five yard line, they have a decent shot of scoring a rushing TD. Who they hand it off to doesn't really matter that much provided the RBs are competent and can be trusted to not fumble; what matters most at that point on the field is that the offensive line is good and that the threat to pass the ball exists. I mean, someone is gonna rush for TDs at that point on the field; what matters is getting there. Whether it's Fred Taylor v. Maurice Jones-Drew or Kenny Davis v. Thurman Thomas or Thomas Jones v. Shon Greene doesn't actually matter; all of those sets of backs were/are equally capable. Both Lynch and Jackson look to be about the same to me in that regard, although since Lynch is a poorer receiver, maybe that weighs into the equation at some small level. Anyway, teams that get inside the 10 are more likely to get those rushing TDs than teams that don't.

 

There's a reason that the Bills don't score many rushing TDs, and it has everything to do with the fact that the offense is lousy at moving the ball down the field and nothing to do with the quality of their running backs. In other words, what matters is a team's ability to move the ball between the 20s. By your logic, Butch Rolle was a good player. However, the reason he scored a lot is because the team he played on consistently moved the ball down the field into the red zone.

 

If you really think that people cared about rushing TDs (as opposed to yards and YPC) before fantasy football, I'm guessing you didn't watch much back then. It truly is a more recent phenomenon. If it wasn't, people would still be crowing about drafting Johnny Hector and Charles White on their fantasy teams in 1987, Greg Bell (!) in 1988/1989, and Cleveland Gary and Derrick Fenner in 1990. Those were the league leaders.

[Mr. WEO]

Explain it however you like you don't have the integrity to answer direct questions asked of you. I continually give what I ask and if someone asks me a direct question I give a direct answer. This is why my "nuttiness" is credible because I am not afraid to give a straight answer. You do yourself a disservice. How do you expect anyone to believe what you say when your views do not hold up against the light of day and can't withstand scrutiny or questions to clarify your stance.

 

Your opinion means pretty much nothing and you of course missed the point of my statement. The stats you quote for Jerome Bettis are likely to be close to being true but you don't understand what it is to be a good RB. If Willy Parker was so good why wasn't he in there in the red zone more? Don't you want your best RB in the game when you are closest to scoring? Not that you will answer those questions because you KNOW if you answer honestly with a "yes" it directly refutes the BS drivel you are trying to get people to buy. You are a complete joke. A man who is actually right will answer any and all questions regarding his beliefs because he knows he is right and doesn't fear scrutiny.

 

Let the Marshawn hate go buddy!! It's so petty that you are trying to paint a picture of reality that matches your beliefs instead of seeing what is so painfully obvious to anyone with a brain......when each is the starter Marshawn scores TWICE as many TDs as Fred Jackson. Period....end of story....FACT....not up for discussion!!

 

A RB's job is a bit more than just score TDs but I think by far we can agree that getting into the end zone and keeping the other guy out is the whole point of the game.

I have answered you. Clearly, I don't believe that the number of TDs a RB gets in a year is the ONLY criterion to judge him. I think I've made this pretty clear to everyone else. I don not know how to make this any more easy for you to understand.

 

If you do not understand how a RB that plays every Sunday and moves the offense down the field, allows for the possibility of a passing game, and helps put the offense in a scoring position is not more valuable ("better") than a guy who is brought in for short goal line pushes, I cannot help you.

 

The highlighted passages speak for themselves.

 

.......unless-----unless you're pulling my leg! AAWWWW--you got me! MAN! You HAD me----I really thought this was how you viewed the game of football. Dang---it is so obvious now. NO ONE could really think like this.

 

Touche, brother! Gonna have to prank you back!

[mrags]

I have answered you. Clearly, I don't believe that the number of TDs a RB gets in a year is the ONLY criterion to judge him. I think I've made this pretty clear to everyone else. I don not know how to make this any more easy for you to understand.

 

If you do not understand how a RB that plays every Sunday and moves the offense down the field, allows for the possibility of a passing game, and helps put the offense in a scoring position is not more valuable ("better") than a guy who is brought in for short goal line pushes, I cannot help you.

 

The highlighted passages speak for themselves.

 

.......unless-----unless you're pulling my leg! AAWWWW--you got me! MAN! You HAD me----I really thought this was how you viewed the game of football. Dang---it is so obvious now. NO ONE could really think like this.

 

Touche, brother! Gonna have to prank you back!

 

ROFLMFAO!!!!

 

Nice post Weo. Agree 100%