Jason Peters ripped for his poor play in Philly last year

[PDaDdy]

The question is whether Peters is overpaid period (meaning no one is worth that money) or overpaid based on his expected performance and, ancillary to that, did the Bills come out winners or losers in the trade.

 

Assuming for a moment that ProFootballFocus.com has accurate rankings (I'm making no judgment either way), then Philly did overpay for him simply because he was expected to be much better. Nevertheless, he still ranked way ahead of any of the Bills linemen (Hangartner was the Bills highest ranked lineman as the 27th best center).

 

Since Levitre and Wood were rookies, I think it's unfair to judge this trade just yet. Now, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills get hosed in the end, but I'm still reserving judgment until I see if Levitre and Wood can pick it up a notch.

 

Incidentally I find it interesting that our "big free agent" signing on offense so far has been Cornell Green who, according to these rankings, isn't much better than what we have (and note that Michael Oher ranked one behind Peters at 19).

 

I get your point about value. Personal opinion is that $10.5 Mill a years is going rate for 3 time pro bowl LTs. If I was building a team I wouldn't at all mind paying that price. I respectfully disagree but I completely understand if some feel that money was better spent elsewhere, not that we did. Where? ...I don't know....but I get it in principal.

 

Trusting one single source of information as gospel usually leads to incorrect assumptions especially if you ignore multiple other sources of information and opinions to the contrary.

 

Another huge mistake people are making is forgetting that the picks we got from Philly produced Eric Wood and Shawn Nelson NOT Andy Levitre. We likely would have and should have drafted Levitre anyway. For some reason people keep thinking that the Peters picks produced both of our starting guards. Not true.

[Mr. WEO]

People seem to have forgotten that Peters was under contract as a RT!!! That is of PARAMOUNT importance. They gave Peters a modest RT contract after realizing as coach Mouse McNally said that Peters was a rare talent. If I am not mistaken he also made mention of hall of fame Anthony Munoz a former TE. As his star was rising we moved him to LT where he played for 2 and a half years making the pro bowl twice and STILL PAID AS A RT!!!! If you get a huge promotion at work and don't get the pay check to go with it you are an idiot. I can't blame Peters for doing the same thing any of us would.

 

Peters was not over paid as as people have forgotten had a string of injuries and off season groin surgery. As you say no one could predict the injury. Everyone seems to forget that although Peters wasn't his absolute best due to injury he was still a probowler.

 

Also I am so sick of whiny people saying the pro bowl means nothing. Your opinion means nothing if you can't recognize being acknowledge by players, coaches and GMs for being the best at your position stands for something. Don't question the ruler if you don't like the measurement.

 

 

So lets get this straight.........

 

1) No name meaning less person in forum thinks Peters is over rated.

 

1) Players, coaches and GMs think he is one of the best and voted him to pro bowl

 

 

Therefore

 

 

3) 3 consecutive Probowl nominations and the opinion of actual NFL players, coaches and GMs mean nothing and the pro bowl is a popularity contest.

 

 

Is that what you really expect intelligent fans to believe???????

Come on---the Pro Bowl? Hey, who was one of best QBs in the AFC 2 seasons ago? Well, you and your Pro Bowl "rulers" thought it was none other than......Brett Favre for the Jets!

 

Look, any reasonable fan can see that many Pro Bowl picks are obviously solid, yet more than a few each year are obviously not. You can't use this somewhat arbitrary "meassurement" as an argument--it hurts you.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb: if half the fans think a guy is pretty good and the other half thinks he sucks, how good can he really be?

 

You would be hard-pressed to convince many that our offense took a nosedive after Peters left.

 

Also, as Biscuit pointed out, Woods has a broken leg! Pulling yourself out of games because you are short of breath because you are out of shape is not an "injury". Never finishing a full season because you are out of shape routinely fall apart before week 17 is not like broken leg.

[Doc]

Well certainly a man's career and worth as a player should be judged on one game alone!!!!

It's a "what have you done for me lately," league.

[Celtic_soulja]

Come on---the Pro Bowl? Hey, who was one of best QBs in the AFC 2 seasons ago? Well, you and your Pro Bowl "rulers" thought it was none other than......Brett Favre for the Jets!

 

Look, any reasonable fan can see that many Pro Bowl picks are obviously solid, yet more than a few each year are obviously not. You can't use this somewhat arbitrary "meassurement" as an argument--it hurts you.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb: if half the fans think a guy is pretty good and the other half thinks he sucks, how good can he really be?

 

You would be hard-pressed to convince many that our offense took a nosedive after Peters left.

 

Also, as Biscuit pointed out, Woods has a broken leg! Pulling yourself out of games because you are short of breath because you are out of shape is not an "injury". Never finishing a full season because you are out of shape routinely fall apart before week 17 is not like broken leg.

 

Well it is difficult to rate OL on anything else really...unless you actually watch tape...which is why I am not a huge Peters guy...I didn't like what I seen in Buffalo and wasn't upset when they moved him...since his me me me holdout he was playing like crap...and I didn't see many games of his Philly stint so far...so many times I just say he was in the Probowl so he must have done okay...

[PDaDdy]

Come on---the Pro Bowl? Hey, who was one of best QBs in the AFC 2 seasons ago? Well, you and your Pro Bowl "rulers" thought it was none other than......Brett Favre for the Jets!

 

Look, any reasonable fan can see that many Pro Bowl picks are obviously solid, yet more than a few each year are obviously not. You can't use this somewhat arbitrary "meassurement" as an argument--it hurts you.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb: if half the fans think a guy is pretty good and the other half thinks he sucks, how good can he really be?

 

You would be hard-pressed to convince many that our offense took a nosedive after Peters left.

 

Also, as Biscuit pointed out, Woods has a broken leg! Pulling yourself out of games because you are short of breath because you are out of shape is not an "injury". Never finishing a full season because you are out of shape routinely fall apart before week 17 is not like broken leg.

 

1) When did Peters pull himself out of games? Not saying it didn't happen and I wouldn't be surprised for someone who missed all of the off season and was recovering from groin surgery.

 

2) Did you see Favre's numbers and how he turned the Jets around until his biceps tendon gave out on him 2/3s of the way through the year? Probowl voting happens well before the end of the season by the way.

 

3) I doubt either of us have figures that show that half the people think Peters is bad. That being said in the hypercritical western ny community of Buffalo and the surrounding cities and towns you have a lot of blue collar joe the plumber types who are pissed that the guy wouldn't play at a huge discount making a **** load more money than they will ever see in their lives. FANS who love or hate him have absolutely nothing to do with how good he actually is. Fan approval or disapproval is WAY WAY WAY more subjective and meaningless than the pro bowl who many disagree with when a guy they hate makes it there.

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

Yeah, two guys who watched the highlights, and the argument is over.

 

Look at the stats and the season instead.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1

 

Last year, he was the sixth best pass blocker in the league, and the only reason he wasn't much better was that he was gimping around on an injured ankle for 3 or 4 games, yet playing because they needed him. Before his injury in the fifth game of the year, he was listed as the 3rd best overall tackle.

 

Among other results of that trade, it is extremely likely to cause us to use our #9 draft pick to replace Peters and therefore preventing us from getting Spiller, Dan Williams, McClain, or another potential difference maker.

 

Worst trade we've made in years.

 

I predicted Peters would be injured part of last year and he was. I expect more gimping in the future, in fact most years with him. He is a big guy who doesn't always work out to stay in the best shape and is the type of player prone to get nagging injuries most years.

[T master]

Yeah, and radio talk shows (and Bills posters) say that Shoebel sucks too. What's your point?

 

 

The point is that the second pro bowl that Peters was voted to people must have mistaken him for some one else because he did not play to PB caliber . He was a whiner that had one good year that was looking for the big paycheck & had no appreciation for the team that took a chance on him and turned him into a decent LT. We always get the guys like that & Who does that remind you of ? ------------------------I'll give you a hint the first letter is WILLIS MCGAHEE !!! They were both turds to the Bills !! We need more players like Fred Jackson !!!

[PDaDdy]

It's a "what have you done for me lately," league.

 

 

That is a ridiculous attempt at justification. You should be ashamed.

[PDaDdy]

The point is that the second pro bowl that Peters was voted to people must have mistaken him for some one else because he did not play to PB caliber . He was a whiner that had one good year that was looking for the big paycheck & had no appreciation for the team that took a chance on him and turned him into a decent LT. We always get the guys like that & Who does that remind you of ? ------------------------I'll give you a hint the first letter is WILLIS MCGAHEE !!! They were both turds to the Bills !! We need more players like Fred Jackson !!!

 

 

Given our line you are right we do need more players like Fred Jackson. Excellent cut back runners. Now....if we had an actual offensive line like the Ravens our other RBs who can actually blast through holes EVEN BETTER than Jackson would shine. I don't like the guy AT ALL on a personal level but how many TDs and how productive has Willis been in his role with the Ravens? I REALLY hate to do this because the guy is a d-bag but compare Jackson and Willis TD production....you know...what actually puts points on the board and wins games.

 

Jackson

2009 3

2008 2

2007 2

 

Willis

2009 12

2008 7

2007 7

 

 

I hate to say it but....WHAT WE FREAKIN NEED ARE GUYS THAT CAN SCORE TDS!!!!! ....As much as it pains me to say it before someone gets smart and says that Jackson is a better WR....McGahee scored more receiving TDs in the last 3 years too!!!!!!!

 

 

This is something that a lot of people aren't capable of. I can hate a guy but admit that they are a good football player. I freakin hate the guy but Willis has put more points on the board than Lynch and BOTH have put way more points on the board than Freddy. In the words of Metallica...."Sad but true!"

[oak tree 12]

I'll take the word of current players, coaches and GMs over former player talking heads thank you very much. How many games did Cross and Banks play against Peters? How many game plans did they come up with? If the answer to any of these questions is ZERO?....then that is how important their and your opinion is!!! You latch onto these two guys and ignore everyone else because it confirms your opinion. This my friend is called "belief persistence". You look for other opinions and continue to discredit them all until you find the one guy that agrees with you and then you say "See....I knew I was right all along" Problem is you can always find a dissenting, Cross and Banks, opinion.

 

SOoo closed minded guys like you always think they are right if they can find one jack ass to agree with them and should totally be ignored.

 

IMO of course

 

you my friend are a total arrogent id-ot! tell me how much film "you" watched of Peters last year?

 

cross is an NFL game analyst and former great offensive linemen. are you going to try and tell me he did not see Peters play?

 

are you also dumb enough to tell me he didnt watch film of the guy try getting off your high horse because your statements make you sound like a total fool.

 

what carl banks and cross forgot about this game you will never know. banks and cross are two of the most articulate intelligent annalists there are in the business.

 

to say because they didnt play against Peters somehow relates to their ability to judge Peters play only shows you are one clueless person.

 

yea I'll listen to some mouth like you over Cross or Banks what a freaking joke!

[Doc]

That is a ridiculous attempt at justification. You should be ashamed.

Look, the object is to make the playoffs, and once there, to win in the playoffs. The Eagles routinely made the playoffs without Peters, but had never made a first round exit until their last playoff game. You can talk about Pro Bowls (which are at best based on the regular season) all you want, but if he comes up small when needed most, it's meaningless.

[Malazan]

3) I doubt either of us have figures that show that half the people think Peters is bad. That being said in the hypercritical western ny community of Buffalo and the surrounding cities and towns you have a lot of blue collar joe the plumber types who are pissed that the guy wouldn't play at a huge discount making a **** load more money than they will ever see in their lives. FANS who love or hate him have absolutely nothing to do with how good he actually is. Fan approval or disapproval is WAY WAY WAY more subjective and meaningless than the pro bowl who many disagree with when a guy they hate makes it there.

 

The Philly community agrees with the Buffalo community.

[billsfreak]

According to people who hate Peters. I should just make this my signature. "Don't question the ruler just because you don't like the measurement." The pro bowl is still an affirmation of being the best at your position. The problem is the players don't want to risk injury. Not to mention moving it to the week before the Super Bowl was just DUMB!!!

No it doesn't. For an offensive lineman it means having a name that is recognizable since there are no stats to go by. For the most part, if you look at Pro Bowl rosters, once an OL makes it once, he usually keeps going for awhile no matter how pathetic of a season he had.

[billsfreak]

Peters has had a string of injuries. I wonder if people will be so critical of Wood when he tries to make his comeback to football.

When Wood comes in out of shape, overweight, lazy and whines for a new contract every other year, gives up the most sacks in the NFL, gets called for more penalties than anyone else in the conference, then I assume Wood will get criticized.

[MRW]

Look, Peters is an okay LT but he was only marginally better than D.Bell.

Wow.

[Mr. WEO]

1) When did Peters pull himself out of games? Not saying it didn't happen and I wouldn't be surprised for someone who missed all of the off season and was recovering from groin surgery.

 

2) Did you see Favre's numbers and how he turned the Jets around until his biceps tendon gave out on him 2/3s of the way through the year? Probowl voting happens well before the end of the season by the way.

 

3) I doubt either of us have figures that show that half the people think Peters is bad. That being said in the hypercritical western ny community of Buffalo and the surrounding cities and towns you have a lot of blue collar joe the plumber types who are pissed that the guy wouldn't play at a huge discount making a **** load more money than they will ever see in their lives. FANS who love or hate him have absolutely nothing to do with how good he actually is. Fan approval or disapproval is WAY WAY WAY more subjective and meaningless than the pro bowl who many disagree with when a guy they hate makes it there.

Favre's numbers were not great (certainly not "the best" as the Pro Bowl demands) prior to his injury. They were awful after. Yet his numbers were outstanding this year, depsite playing with a rotator cuff tear.

 

Perhaps you aren't aware that the fan vote is 1/3 of the Pro Bowl vote. Fan voting continues until right before Christmas. There are a lot of Jets fans in New York. Pretty simple.

 

You think WNY is hypercritical of its sports teams? Have you lived in downstate? How about Philly? Chicago? It's a big world--go see it.

[PDaDdy]

you my friend are a total arrogent id-ot! tell me how much film "you" watched of Peters last year?

 

cross is an NFL game analyst and former great offensive linemen. are you going to try and tell me he did not see Peters play?

 

are you also dumb enough to tell me he didnt watch film of the guy try getting off your high horse because your statements make you sound like a total fool.

 

what carl banks and cross forgot about this game you will never know. banks and cross are two of the most articulate intelligent annalists there are in the business.

 

to say because they didnt play against Peters somehow relates to their ability to judge Peters play only shows you are one clueless person.

 

yea I'll listen to some mouth like you over Cross or Banks what a freaking joke!

 

Are dumb enough to think that this guy sits around and watches every game several times and focuses on each player so as to be able to give a better more accurate assessment of his talents than the guys that with play with him, the guys that play against him, the coaches and the GMs?

 

Please! It is sad the lengths people will go to try to discredit a 3 consecutive time pro bowler because they have a grudge against him and his business acumen. You cling to the opinion of your 2 heroes and ignore everything else. Ya, I've been called arrogant before...still doesn't preclude me from being right Admittedly that does frustrate some. Often it's those who are supposedly or are perceived to be as arrogant as myself.

[PDaDdy]

The Philly community agrees with the Buffalo community.

 

I didn't know you surveyed all the Philly fans vs just the squeaky wheel forum whiners.

 

Ya...Philly fans aren't hypercritical either. They want to run McNabb out of town. None of our QBs could hold that guys jock and they think he stinks. Go figure.

[PDaDdy]

When Wood comes in out of shape, overweight, lazy and whines for a new contract every other year, gives up the most sacks in the NFL, gets called for more penalties than anyone else in the conference, then I assume Wood will get criticized.

 

 

As soon as Wood is paid like an undrafted TE that transformed into a pro bowl LT and wants to be paid like one we'll have something to talk about I guess. For some reason I don't think Wood will be complaining about his first round draft pick rookie contract for a while

[MaineMoxie]

I get your point about value. Personal opinion is that $10.5 Mill a years is going rate for 3 time pro bowl LTs. If I was building a team I wouldn't at all mind paying that price. I respectfully disagree but I completely understand if some feel that money was better spent elsewhere, not that we did. Where? ...I don't know....but I get it in principal.

 

Trusting one single source of information as gospel usually leads to incorrect assumptions especially if you ignore multiple other sources of information and opinions to the contrary.

 

Another huge mistake people are making is forgetting that the picks we got from Philly produced Eric Wood and Shawn Nelson NOT Andy Levitre. We likely would have and should have drafted Levitre anyway. For some reason people keep thinking that the Peters picks produced both of our starting guards. Not true.

 

Sorry, I stand corrected. My bad on Levitre. I also agree that we shouldn' trust a single source. Notice that I said "assuming profootballfocus.com has accurate" data. Data is way too easily manipulated so I, personally, don't put too much faith in it. Evaluating talent is very, very hard and there are so many subtleties to it.