What About That D

[T master]

If you think about it with what we have so far it's not looking that bad, actually i think it's pretty Dad gum good !!

I had it laid out as it would be on the field but i guess i'm just computer illiterate cause when i post it , it all changed but you get the idea !!

 

 

 

Spencer Johnson----------------- Dwan Edwards ------------------Marcus Stroud

K. Williams

Schobel--------------------------- Davis-------------------------------Poz-----------------------------Maybin

Draft Mitchell Kelsey

(Interchange with either ILB)

 

Mcgee Mckelvin

Florence Corner

Byrd Scott

Whitner Wilson

 

Plus Harris ,Yaboty, Lankster , & others .If one or more of the young possible NT's and draft a Good NT

and a LB to add to the mix

THIS AIN'T LOOKIN HALF BAD BILLS FANS !!!

WHAT A BOUT IT !! GRRRR!!

[Mr. ChumChums]

Soo....Dwan Edwards is the NT? He's what...290? He's a RE in the 3-4..not a NT.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I think it will be interesting to see how Williams plays at NT after last season. It is obvious he isn't big enough to be taking all the Reps at NT. But I think he should be good for some damage.

[SuperKillerRobots]

I think it will be interesting to see how Williams plays at NT after last season. It is obvious he isn't big enough to be taking all the Reps at NT. But I think he should be good for some damage.

 

I agree - I think he'll do pretty good, but not good enough to make it a top 10 defense unless there's a guy to play i obvious running situations.

[frogger]

Kyle williams plays with GREAT leverage, I truly believe that he's not a stack the line type NT, but he has a good to great first step, rarely takes a bad step and again leverage is key at NT...he might be undersized....but he has a over sized heart and determination-that sounded a little gay, and don't care I woke up in a great mood.

[Mr. ChumChums]

Kyle williams plays with GREAT leverage, I truly believe that he's not a stack the line type NT, but he has a good to great first step, rarely takes a bad step and again leverage is key at NT...he might be undersized....but he has a over sized heart and determination-that sounded a little gay, and don't care I woke up in a great mood.

 

That makes one of us...

 

on that note though, I actually agree with you that KW is a great player, all around. However, even with his great work ethic, leverage, and first step, I don't feel like he will command double, and triple teams at the LOS. His main job, if he's a NT, would be to clog up the middle and protect the 2 ILB's from the O-Line. In a 2-gap defensive 3-4 front, if KW only commands attention from the Center, there's 2 Guards that are free to go and pummel Pos and Andra (and I guess, Mitchell). THIS is what I'm worried about with KW at NT...which is why I'm most comfortable with him getting in there on passing downs, but not early downs, and obvious rushing situations.

[T master]

Soo....Dwan Edwards is the NT? He's what...290? He's a RE in the 3-4..not a NT.

 

 

Check out the Dwan Edwards 1 on 1. Before he was signed he said he was mainly an end but was versatile and able to play multiple positions in a 3-4 and if he's a lineman there's only 3 positions on the line hence 3------4 !!! but hey i'll apologize for my lack of football knowledge and I'll look to you mr. football from now on before asking .

[Mr. ChumChums]

Check out the Dwan Edwards 1 on 1. Before he was signed he said he was mainly an end but was versatile and able to play multiple positions in a 3-4 and if he's a lineman there's only 3 positions on the line hence 3------4 !!! but hey i'll apologize for my lack of football knowledge and I'll look to you mr. football from now on before asking .

 

So I still don't get why you think Dwan Edwards can play NT in the 3-4?

[Green Lightning]

So I still don't get why you think Dwan Edwards can play NT in the 3-4?

 

 

He can't. But T-Master's point is well taken. We are a NT & OLB away from a respectible defense. Now Buddy & Chan need to have a killer draft.

[BillsVet]

He can't. But T-Master's point is well taken. We are a NT & OLB away from a respectible defense. Now Buddy & Chan need to have a killer draft.

 

Draft picks rarely (especially 2nd rounders and below) start and make a difference. When people say the Bills are a NT and OLB away from having a defense, it's like saying the Washington Nationals only lack some starting pitching: you can't go without these positions and have a solid defense.

 

Not one OLB on this roster has played the position in the pros. They'll be learning a totally new defense, of which only two current Bills have played in. Maybin, Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis, and whatever draft pick are total question marks at OLB. And they're the guys charged with rushing the passer.

 

It's one thing to hope the first rounder comes in and plays well, but assuming they can rush the passer with current options and find a NT in the draft who will play out of the gate is absurd.

[John Cocktosten]

The keys to a great 3-4 defense are the OLB's and a NT and the Bills are without any of those. K. Williams has been a 1 gap DT his whole career, even back at LSU and now he's going to be expected to be a 2 gap NT? Sorry fellas, ain't gonna happen. Look at the way Glenn Dorsey and Corey Williams have struggled in the 3-4. I know they play end but when you're a penetrating 1 gap tackle and now you're being asked to eat up blocks instead of making plays, it's not only a tough transition functionally, but these guys don't want to be there so LB's can make all of the plays.

 

Then there our the OLB's. The Bills are a mess there. I still can't believe how lost and unatheletic Maybin looked. He was stiff, soft at the point and played straight up and down. Now he's standing up and he's supposed to play lower? I'm sorry, but he will continue to be a bust. Then there is Kelsay and Schobel. Kelsay and Schobel's game is not about fluidity or athleticism, it's about hustle and motor. That's great but you need to be able to play in space as an OLB in a 3-4. Covering RB's, dropping into zones and never letting anything on the ground get outside of you. These are not the strenghts of either of these guys. Kelsay is a terrible pass rusher and Schobel has never been a guy who gets initial pressure. He's a second effort guy and many of his sacks come because of solid coverage.

 

While most think OL should be the Bills focus in this draft, I think we need to get some pass rushers in here along with a guy like Cody in the middle before anything.

[playman]

The keys to a great 3-4 defense are the OLB's and a NT and the Bills are without any of those. K. Williams has been a 1 gap DT his whole career, even back at LSU and now he's going to be expected to be a 2 gap NT? Sorry fellas, ain't gonna happen. Look at the way Glenn Dorsey and Corey Williams have struggled in the 3-4. I know they play end but when you're a penetrating 1 gap tackle and now you're being asked to eat up blocks instead of making plays, it's not only a tough transition functionally, but these guys don't want to be there so LB's can make all of the plays.

 

Then there our the OLB's. The Bills are a mess there. I still can't believe how lost and unatheletic Maybin looked. He was stiff, soft at the point and played straight up and down. Now he's standing up and he's supposed to play lower? I'm sorry, but he will continue to be a bust. Then there is Kelsay and Schobel. Kelsay and Schobel's game is not about fluidity or athleticism, it's about hustle and motor. That's great but you need to be able to play in space as an OLB in a 3-4. Covering RB's, dropping into zones and never letting anything on the ground get outside of you. These are not the strenghts of either of these guys. Kelsay is a terrible pass rusher and Schobel has never been a guy who gets initial pressure. He's a second effort guy and many of his sacks come because of solid coverage.

 

While most think OL should be the Bills focus in this draft, I think we need to get some pass rushers in here along with a guy like Cody in the middle before anything.

 

wade runs his 3-4 with a smallosh - kind of - NT. mostly a 1-gap-scheme.

 

you dont absolutely need a 2-gapper at NT. only if you run it that way

[dwight in philly]

wade runs his 3-4 with a smallosh - kind of - NT. mostly a 1-gap-scheme.

 

you dont absolutely need a 2-gapper at NT. only if you run it that way

i am cautiously optimistic about the D. i maintain the secondary is above average and would love mcclain to compliment the linebackers. i can only approach the season optimistically or otherwise, why bother?

[Thurman#1]

Kyle williams plays with GREAT leverage, I truly believe that he's not a stack the line type NT, but he has a good to great first step, rarely takes a bad step and again leverage is key at NT...he might be undersized....but he has a over sized heart and determination-that sounded a little gay, and don't care I woke up in a great mood.

 

 

A first step is really important for a defensive lineman who is a penetrator. Nose tackles aren't penetrators. If Williams plays at the nose, it would eliminate one of his (and the same for Marcus Stroud) main strengths, his good first step.

 

It doesn't matter how fast you are when you're just stepping forward into the center and engaging him.

 

We need a nose tackle. If we don't have one this year, it's not really a problem, we're going to suck this year anyway. But we need one before we expect to become a genuinely good defense.

 

And the second-most important guy in a 3 - 4 defense is the rush OLB, usually the ROLB. Those guys are extremely difficult to find because they basically have to be athletic freaks, able to run past LTs and blockers and also strong enough to make tackles. Think, ideally, Lawrence Taylor, and more realistically, Joey Porter.

 

We don't have a single outside linebacker on the team right now who has EVER taken a snap as a linebacker. Not one. They're all converted DLs. This is just not good.

[Thurman#1]

wade runs his 3-4 with a smallosh - kind of - NT. mostly a 1-gap-scheme.

 

you dont absolutely need a 2-gapper at NT. only if you run it that way

 

 

 

When you play in Buffalo, you had better play it that way. In Dallas they play in a dome. In Bufalo, there is a game or two at the least where passing is difficult or impossible, and when you play two more games a year outside at Foxboro and outside at the Meadowlands, you need to stop the run first. We need a two-gap nose tackle.

[Mr. ChumChums]

When you play in Buffalo, you had better play it that way. In Dallas they play in a dome. In Bufalo, there is a game or two at the least where passing is difficult or impossible, and when you play two more games a year outside at Foxboro and outside at the Meadowlands, you need to stop the run first. We need a two-gap nose tackle.

 

Not necessarily. The biggest reason Bruce Smith was able to get all the sacks that he got was that he played in a 1-gap 3-4, just like how Wade Phillips runs it now in Dallas.

 

However, I agree with you that we DO need a 2-gap NT, as Edwards learned his 3-4 out of hte Bill Parcells system, which is predominately a 2-gap system.

[Pygskin36]

Kyle williams plays with GREAT leverage, I truly believe that he's not a stack the line type NT, but he has a good to great first step, rarely takes a bad step and again leverage is key at NT...he might be undersized....but he has a over sized heart and determination-that sounded a little gay, and don't care I woke up in a great mood.

I don't see why everyone is sour on Williams at NT... Body weight is a plus, but he's a tough sob... He's strong and active... There is no rule that says the nose has to two- gap all the time... He can 2 or3 shade and the linebackers can change up responsibility too...

[bkc]

if they get a first/second down n.t then they can go to war with what they have. It is not perfect but the needs on the Offesive line are going to take several picks . This is were people blast about about bell and merdith ect . The line is a mess , wood is coming off major injury , greene is stop gap at best. Hangartner is average at best and there is a not a left tackle on the roster. I would hope we spend at least 3 of our 9 picks on the O line

[bkc]

I don't see why everyone is sour on Williams at NT... Body weight is a plus, but he's a tough sob... He's strong and active... There is no rule that says the nose has to two- gap all the time... He can 2 or3 shade and the linebackers can change up responsibility too...

I think it is the one year wonder thing that burned us last year

[John Cocktosten]

Not necessarily. The biggest reason Bruce Smith was able to get all the sacks that he got was that he played in a 1-gap 3-4, just like how Wade Phillips runs it now in Dallas.

 

However, I agree with you that we DO need a 2-gap NT, as Edwards learned his 3-4 out of hte Bill Parcells system, which is predominately a 2-gap system.

You're also talking about 2 very unique players. There has never been a 3-4 DE like Bruce who could rush the passer from a 4/5 technique. And the same goes for Ratliff. Wade realizes this and plays to the strengths of his team rather than trying to make JR something he is not. KW is not that guy.

While I like the 3-4, the personal we have is much better suited for a 4-3 and instead of playing to your teams stregnths, Gailey is putting square pegs in round holes. And if you think thats bad, wait until you see Trent try to run a spread offense!