The Claussen Pickle

[yungmack]

Being from the south like Buddy. Som-in aint right with the boy.

 

I like Jake (Locker) a whole lot better next year.

 

Once our big boys up front get some time under thier belts.

 

Besides Jake's a good southern name.

I've seen Locker play a number of times and I don't quite get this widespread support for him. He's alright but so is Clausen, so is Bradford, so is Lefevour. None of them strike me as "can't miss" QBs.

 

The most interesting college QB to me is Andrew Luck.

[Mr. WEO]

Does Clausen have the arm for the Buffalo winds? I ask because I don't know.

aye aye aye

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I think if he is there the Bills take him. I think with five good O linemen your team has a good chance every week. So I would take O line. But I have a feeling the pick is going to be Derrick Morgan. I can't shake this feeling (good or bad).

[starrymessenger]

Like it or not, if the Redskins pass on him, he will very likely be a Bill.

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

Leadership is an intangible....either you have it or you don't.

 

Some of you have replied to my previous post and asked for specific examples of where Clausen showed a lack of leadership. Well since football is a team sport, and the QB is the face of the team, I'll start by citing the fact that ND lost its last 4 straight. That tells me that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and will them to win at least one of those last 4 games. There was no shame in losing at Pitt or at Stanford. But there is no excuse for losing at home to Connecticut and at home to Navy. ND also had to come back late at home to beat a mediocre Washington team. The only thing close to a "quality" win this year was against a Boston College team that finished 8-5.

 

For those of you that will now respond with, "well Notre Dame had a down year/bad team", aren't the two most prominent figures in the making of a bad team the coach and QB (see Buffalo Bills 2000-2009). We've been saying for years we need the Bills to get a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and make the players around him better. Clausen did not do that. ND's record the last three years were 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. As Bill Parcells says - "you are what your record says you are".

 

I've watched football for almost 50 years. The intangible that the great quarterbacks almost universally have is that aura around them that they can bring their team back no matter what the score. They get their teammates to believe that as well. Clausen has not demonstrated that trait.

 

So count me among those who has made up his mind and won't change it. I hope Clausen is gone by No. 9 so the Bills don't have to make the decision. If I'm wrong and Clausen becomes the next Peyton Manning, I will live with the comfort that "real football men" in the past have passed on the likes of John Unitas, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Dree Brees over can't miss prospects who went in the 1st round like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer and Kelly Stouffer. (And please don't call me an ND basher. I've been following ND since 1970 and I still get a lump in my throat every time Rudy makes that damn tackle!).

 

"Da Bills - they're an ugly mutt, but their MY MUTT!"

[PDaDdy]

Leadership is an intangible....either you have it or you don't.

 

Some of you have replied to my previous post and asked for specific examples of where Clausen showed a lack of leadership. Well since football is a team sport, and the QB is the face of the team, I'll start by citing the fact that ND lost its last 4 straight. That tells me that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and will them to win at least one of those last 4 games. There was no shame in losing at Pitt or at Stanford. But there is no excuse for losing at home to Connecticut and at home to Navy. ND also had to come back late at home to beat a mediocre Washington team. The only thing close to a "quality" win this year was against a Boston College team that finished 8-5.

 

For those of you that will now respond with, "well Notre Dame had a down year/bad team", aren't the two most prominent figures in the making of a bad team the coach and QB (see Buffalo Bills 2000-2009). We've been saying for years we need the Bills to get a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and make the players around him better. Clausen did not do that. ND's record the last three years were 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. As Bill Parcells says - "you are what your record says you are".

 

I've watched football for almost 50 years. The intangible that the great quarterbacks almost universally have is that aura around them that they can bring their team back no matter what the score. They get their teammates to believe that as well. Clausen has not demonstrated that trait.

 

So count me among those who has made up his mind and won't change it. I hope Clausen is gone by No. 9 so the Bills don't have to make the decision. If I'm wrong and Clausen becomes the next Peyton Manning, I will live with the comfort that "real football men" in the past have passed on the likes of John Unitas, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Dree Brees over can't miss prospects who went in the 1st round like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer and Kelly Stouffer. (And please don't call me an ND basher. I've been following ND since 1970 and I still get a lump in my throat every time Rudy makes that damn tackle!).

 

"Da Bills - they're an ugly mutt, but their MY MUTT!"

 

 

So basically you have nothing substantive to back up your claim that you state as fact? Disinformation is worse than ignorance.

[H2o]

Leadership is an intangible....either you have it or you don't.

 

Some of you have replied to my previous post and asked for specific examples of where Clausen showed a lack of leadership. Well since football is a team sport, and the QB is the face of the team, I'll start by citing the fact that ND lost its last 4 straight. That tells me that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and will them to win at least one of those last 4 games. There was no shame in losing at Pitt or at Stanford. But there is no excuse for losing at home to Connecticut and at home to Navy. ND also had to come back late at home to beat a mediocre Washington team. The only thing close to a "quality" win this year was against a Boston College team that finished 8-5.

 

For those of you that will now respond with, "well Notre Dame had a down year/bad team", aren't the two most prominent figures in the making of a bad team the coach and QB (see Buffalo Bills 2000-2009). We've been saying for years we need the Bills to get a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and make the players around him better. Clausen did not do that. ND's record the last three years were 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. As Bill Parcells says - "you are what your record says you are".

 

I've watched football for almost 50 years. The intangible that the great quarterbacks almost universally have is that aura around them that they can bring their team back no matter what the score. They get their teammates to believe that as well. Clausen has not demonstrated that trait.

 

So count me among those who has made up his mind and won't change it. I hope Clausen is gone by No. 9 so the Bills don't have to make the decision. If I'm wrong and Clausen becomes the next Peyton Manning, I will live with the comfort that "real football men" in the past have passed on the likes of John Unitas, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Dree Brees over can't miss prospects who went in the 1st round like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer and Kelly Stouffer. (And please don't call me an ND basher. I've been following ND since 1970 and I still get a lump in my throat every time Rudy makes that damn tackle!).

 

"Da Bills - they're an ugly mutt, but their MY MUTT!"

Did you actually watch any of ND's games? He was the ONLY reason that they weren't 3-9 or worse this year. Their defense was absolutely horrendous. He led them to four 4th quarter victories and it could've been seven if the defense could've held their own. All of the close victories were on the arm of Clausen. They also could've atleast sent the game against USC into overtime if Kamara had not slipped coming out of his cut in the endzone. Every team knew that ND had no rushing attack, a horrible OL, and still couldn't stop Clausen from putting up good numbers week in and week out. You're completely clueless bro. Completely.

[PDaDdy]

Did you actually watch any of ND's games? He was the ONLY reason that they weren't 3-9 or worse this year. Their defense was absolutely horrendous. He led them to four 4th quarter victories and it could've been seven if the defense could've held their own. All of the close victories were on the arm of Clausen. They also could've atleast sent the game against USC into overtime if Kamara had not slipped coming out of his cut in the endzone. Every team knew that ND had no rushing attack, a horrible OL, and still couldn't stop Clausen from putting up good numbers week in and week out. You're completely clueless bro. Completely.

 

 

Haters just want to hate. Pointing out the possible, and more likely, "other side of the coin" rarely open's peoples eyes up.

[John Cocktosten]

Did you actually watch any of ND's games? He was the ONLY reason that they weren't 3-9 or worse this year. Their defense was absolutely horrendous. He led them to four 4th quarter victories and it could've been seven if the defense could've held their own. All of the close victories were on the arm of Clausen. They also could've atleast sent the game against USC into overtime if Kamara had not slipped coming out of his cut in the endzone. Every team knew that ND had no rushing attack, a horrible OL, and still couldn't stop Clausen from putting up good numbers week in and week out. You're completely clueless bro. Completely.

I have no problem with the Anti-Clausen crowd if they watched the games. But most of the Anti crowd never say, "I watched him play and he was terrrible!" They say, "McShay said he was JP" or "His leadership skills are lacking!". That makes me laugh because how in the eff would you know unless you were in practice or on the team!?!? Eric Olson, who's started at center the past 3 years at ND, recently laughed at the notion of him not being a leader and said that he would not want another QB in the huddle. Clausen is rehabbing and working out with A. Benn (Ill), Spiller(Clem) and Griffen (USC) in Arizona and they all are on record saying that they love him. He's haunted by his arrival to South Bend and his struggles early on. No one ever cites specifics when they report on his "attitude".

ND recaps are on you tube, go back and watch him make play after play without an Oline or a running game and then tell me your not impressed.

[Mr. WEO]

Leadership is an intangible....either you have it or you don't.

 

Some of you have replied to my previous post and asked for specific examples of where Clausen showed a lack of leadership. Well since football is a team sport, and the QB is the face of the team, I'll start by citing the fact that ND lost its last 4 straight. That tells me that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and will them to win at least one of those last 4 games. There was no shame in losing at Pitt or at Stanford. But there is no excuse for losing at home to Connecticut and at home to Navy. ND also had to come back late at home to beat a mediocre Washington team. The only thing close to a "quality" win this year was against a Boston College team that finished 8-5.

 

For those of you that will now respond with, "well Notre Dame had a down year/bad team", aren't the two most prominent figures in the making of a bad team the coach and QB (see Buffalo Bills 2000-2009). We've been saying for years we need the Bills to get a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and make the players around him better. Clausen did not do that. ND's record the last three years were 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. As Bill Parcells says - "you are what your record says you are".

 

I've watched football for almost 50 years. The intangible that the great quarterbacks almost universally have is that aura around them that they can bring their team back no matter what the score. They get their teammates to believe that as well. Clausen has not demonstrated that trait.

 

So count me among those who has made up his mind and won't change it. I hope Clausen is gone by No. 9 so the Bills don't have to make the decision. If I'm wrong and Clausen becomes the next Peyton Manning, I will live with the comfort that "real football men" in the past have passed on the likes of John Unitas, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Dree Brees over can't miss prospects who went in the 1st round like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer and Kelly Stouffer. (And please don't call me an ND basher. I've been following ND since 1970 and I still get a lump in my throat every time Rudy makes that damn tackle!).

 

"Da Bills - they're an ugly mutt, but their MY MUTT!"

I think the lump is in your brain. You've wasted 50 years purportedly watching football.

 

I've not been a big Clausen fan, but to have watched those last 4 games and conclude that he didn't make the players around him better means that you don't understand what you are watching. In that stretch, he threw for 1400 yards, completed 70% of his passes, threw 10 TDs v. 2 picks and his team averaged 28 points per game. Unfortunately, his defense gave up 32 ppg.

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

So basically you have nothing substantive to back up your claim that you state as fact? Disinformation is worse than ignorance.

 

Define disinformation.

 

Facts stated (or inferred) in my argument:

 

1. QB is team leader (synonymous with "field general" from Synonym.com)

2. Claussen was ND QB for three years (ND Football website)

3. Clausen won 16 out of 35 (or 45% win pct) games ND played in last three years (source CBS Sportsline)

4. ND lost this year to UConn at home, Navy at home, had to come from behind at home to beat a 5-7 UWash team (source ESPN)

5. Loser - a person who failed at a particular activity (Dictionary.com)

6. Clausen 45% wins, 55% losses - mathematically qualifies as a negative/loss (trust me on this one or use your calculator)

 

Therefore, based on facts 1 through 6, Clausen is by definition a loser.

 

So please explain where the disinformation is?

[John Cocktosten]

Define disinformation.

 

Facts stated (or inferred) in my argument:

 

1. QB is team leader (synonymous with "field general" from Synonym.com)

2. Claussen was ND QB for three years (ND Football website)

3. Clausen won 16 out of 35 (or 45% win pct) games ND played in last three years (source CBS Sportsline)

4. ND lost this year to UConn at home, Navy at home, had to come from behind at home to beat a 5-7 UWash team (source ESPN)

5. Loser - a person who failed at a particular activity (Dictionary.com)

6. Clausen 45% wins, 55% losses - mathematically qualifies as a negative/loss (trust me on this one or use your calculator)

 

Therefore, based on facts 1 through 6, Clausen is by definition a loser.

 

So please explain where the disinformation is?

You are clueless. If you watched him play and your opinion was that you didn't think he was good, that would be fine. You didn't play for ND, you weren't at practices or in the classroom. You are making an opinion based on pure cojecture and speculation. And on top of it all, your choice of beer SUCKS!

[stuckincincy]

I have no problem with the Anti-Clausen crowd if they watched the games. But most of the Anti crowd never say, "I watched him play and he was terrrible!" They say, "McShay said he was JP" or "His leadership skills are lacking!". That makes me laugh because how in the eff would you know unless you were in practice or on the team!?!? Eric Olson, who's started at center the past 3 years at ND, recently laughed at the notion of him not being a leader and said that he would not want another QB in the huddle. Clausen is rehabbing and working out with A. Benn (Ill), Spiller(Clem) and Griffen (USC) in Arizona and they all are on record saying that they love him. He's haunted by his arrival to South Bend and his struggles early on. No one ever cites specifics when they report on his "attitude".

ND recaps are on you tube, go back and watch him make play after play without an Oline or a running game and then tell me your not impressed.

 

I go out of my way to avoid watching ND. Same with PSU and OSU. Our local tv affiliates, and ESPN feed, seem to think that I won't live another day unless I get their entire seasons shoved in front of me.

 

Reminds me of the years and years of being treated to most of the GB and DAL seasons...

 

I did get a respite this past season, though...the Pats* didn't infect my listings quite as as much.

[KD in CA]

Leadership is an intangible....either you have it or you don't.

 

Some of you have replied to my previous post and asked for specific examples of where Clausen showed a lack of leadership. Well since football is a team sport, and the QB is the face of the team, I'll start by citing the fact that ND lost its last 4 straight. That tells me that Clausen didn't put the team on his shoulders and will them to win at least one of those last 4 games. There was no shame in losing at Pitt or at Stanford. But there is no excuse for losing at home to Connecticut and at home to Navy. ND also had to come back late at home to beat a mediocre Washington team. The only thing close to a "quality" win this year was against a Boston College team that finished 8-5.

 

For those of you that will now respond with, "well Notre Dame had a down year/bad team", aren't the two most prominent figures in the making of a bad team the coach and QB (see Buffalo Bills 2000-2009). We've been saying for years we need the Bills to get a QB who can put the team on his shoulders and make the players around him better. Clausen did not do that. ND's record the last three years were 3-9, 7-6 and 6-6. As Bill Parcells says - "you are what your record says you are".

 

I've watched football for almost 50 years. The intangible that the great quarterbacks almost universally have is that aura around them that they can bring their team back no matter what the score. They get their teammates to believe that as well. Clausen has not demonstrated that trait.

 

So count me among those who has made up his mind and won't change it. I hope Clausen is gone by No. 9 so the Bills don't have to make the decision. If I'm wrong and Clausen becomes the next Peyton Manning, I will live with the comfort that "real football men" in the past have passed on the likes of John Unitas, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Dree Brees over can't miss prospects who went in the 1st round like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Todd Blackledge, David Klingler, Rick Mirer and Kelly Stouffer. (And please don't call me an ND basher. I've been following ND since 1970 and I still get a lump in my throat every time Rudy makes that damn tackle!).

 

"Da Bills - they're an ugly mutt, but their MY MUTT!"

 

This argument is the epitomy of stupidity. No football player "puts a team on his shoulders" in any game. It takes 50 friggin guys in 3 phases of the game.

 

You write as though a QB is like a pitcher who can just strike everyone out. It doesn't work that way in football.

[John Cocktosten]

I go out of my way to avoid watching ND. Same with PSU and OSU. Our local tv affiliates, and ESPN feed, seem to think that I won't live another day unless I get their entire seasons shoved in front of me.

I got sick of Big Ten football infecting my brain too so I got Direct TV w/ the sportspak. You will never miss a big college football game ever again. There are Saturdays that go by where I actually apologize to my Wife the next day.

[PDaDdy]

Define disinformation.

 

Facts stated (or inferred) in my argument:

 

1. QB is team leader (synonymous with "field general" from Synonym.com)

2. Claussen was ND QB for three years (ND Football website)

3. Clausen won 16 out of 35 (or 45% win pct) games ND played in last three years (source CBS Sportsline)

4. ND lost this year to UConn at home, Navy at home, had to come from behind at home to beat a 5-7 UWash team (source ESPN)

5. Loser - a person who failed at a particular activity (Dictionary.com)

6. Clausen 45% wins, 55% losses - mathematically qualifies as a negative/loss (trust me on this one or use your calculator)

 

Therefore, based on facts 1 through 6, Clausen is by definition a loser.

 

So please explain where the disinformation is?

 

The disinformation that you are spreading is that HE IS NOT A GOOD LEADER. I don't happen to see that mentioned in your 6 facts! I hope you are smart enough to realize that at any given time there are 11 guys for each side on the field and a hell of a lot more players, coaches and personnel that comprise the team. You do realize that teams win and lose games not individual players right? And yes that includes QB. I have no stake in this as I don't think Claussen will be available to us at 9 and I think a LT would probably be a better choice for us. Hell, I might even prefer CJ Spliier if we could trade one of our RBs or Whitner with some other picks to pick a LT later in the first round.

 

That being said I can tell unsubstantiated BS when I smell it. It seems pretty obvious to everyone but you that you have a big time negative bias towards him. The truth is you don't know a damn thing about whether he is a good leader or not. Your not even smart enough to believe what your eyes tell you. On a bad team he put up some sick SICK numbers. A bad leader does not pull his offense up with him and display those sort of heroics to try to keep his team in the game.

 

So again....I say disinformation. If you want to be accurate just say...I heard a rumor from one guy siting an unnamed source of a cousin that said he was a bad leader. At least that would more accurately represent the fact that you have absolutely no clue but that it is just your opinion that can't in any real way be backed up.

[H2o]

Define disinformation.

 

Facts stated (or inferred) in my argument:

 

1. QB is team leader (synonymous with "field general" from Synonym.com)

2. Claussen was ND QB for three years (ND Football website)

3. Clausen won 16 out of 35 (or 45% win pct) games ND played in last three years (source CBS Sportsline)

4. ND lost this year to UConn at home, Navy at home, had to come from behind at home to beat a 5-7 UWash team (source ESPN)

5. Loser - a person who failed at a particular activity (Dictionary.com)

6. Clausen 45% wins, 55% losses - mathematically qualifies as a negative/loss (trust me on this one or use your calculator)

 

Therefore, based on facts 1 through 6, Clausen is by definition a loser.

 

So please explain where the disinformation is?

We are not talking about drafting the whole team or the coaching staff, we're talking about drafting an individual. Last time I checked, football is still a team sport. Go back to his HS if we're talking about overall wins and losses. He was 42-0 in HS and won the nation's top honor for HS athletes, the Hall Trophy. Let me guess, it was the rest of the team that carried him then, huh? When he arrived at ND it was during the transition period when all of the players Willingham recruited were headed to the NFL. His OL was all Freshman and Sophomores that were mostly inexperienced. The backfield was also young as were the WR's. Bottomline, he got better EVERY year to where he did all he could for a 6-6 (that shold've been atleast 9-3 if not 10-2 based on everytihng I saw) team that would've been FAR WORSE without him.

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

We are not talking about drafting the whole team or the coaching staff, we're talking about drafting an individual. Last time I checked, football is still a team sport. Go back to his HS if we're talking about overall wins and losses. He was 42-0 in HS and won the nation's top honor for HS athletes, the Hall Trophy. Let me guess, it was the rest of the team that carried him then, huh? When he arrived at ND it was during the transition period when all of the players Willingham recruited were headed to the NFL. His OL was all Freshman and Sophomores that were mostly inexperienced. The backfield was also young as were the WR's. Bottomline, he got better EVERY year to where he did all he could for a 6-6 (that shold've been atleast 9-3 if not 10-2 based on everytihng I saw) team that would've been FAR WORSE without him.

 

Nice rebuttal. Solid points to back up your argument.

 

That said. I still don't think he's the answer. He might end up being a good to great quarterback. And if the Bills take him, I'll drink the Clausen Kool-Aid and hope like hell I'm wrong. But until they do, I'm not going to be convinced he's the guy they should use their 1st round pick on.

 

And I did see him play in person against Pitt (as well as a number of TV games). I thought he made some nice throws, but his long throws were wounded ducks. He was fortunate Golden Tate had the speed to outrun Pitts banged up secondary and run under them (as well as run a kickoff back for a TD). But it was Tate that got ND back in the game, not Clausen.

 

I'm all for them taking him with their 2nd round pick

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

Define disinformation.

 

Facts stated (or inferred) in my argument:

 

1. QB is team leader (synonymous with "field general" from Synonym.com)

2. Claussen was ND QB for three years (ND Football website)

3. Clausen won 16 out of 35 (or 45% win pct) games ND played in last three years (source CBS Sportsline)

4. ND lost this year to UConn at home, Navy at home, had to come from behind at home to beat a 5-7 UWash team (source ESPN)

5. Loser - a person who failed at a particular activity (Dictionary.com)

6. Clausen 45% wins, 55% losses - mathematically qualifies as a negative/loss (trust me on this one or use your calculator)

 

Therefore, based on facts 1 through 6, Clausen is by definition a loser.

 

So please explain where the disinformation is?

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

I have no problem with the Anti-Clausen crowd if they watched the games. But most of the Anti crowd never say, "I watched him play and he was terrrible!" They say, "McShay said he was JP" or "His leadership skills are lacking!". That makes me laugh because how in the eff would you know unless you were in practice or on the team!?!? Eric Olson, who's started at center the past 3 years at ND, recently laughed at the notion of him not being a leader and said that he would not want another QB in the huddle. Clausen is rehabbing and working out with A. Benn (Ill), Spiller(Clem) and Griffen (USC) in Arizona and they all are on record saying that they love him. He's haunted by his arrival to South Bend and his struggles early on. No one ever cites specifics when they report on his "attitude".

ND recaps are on you tube, go back and watch him make play after play without an Oline or a running game and then tell me your not impressed.

 

OK. I will say it (well paraphrase it).

 

I watched Clausen play and he was ok but definitely not great. Therefore I wouldn't spend the No 9 pick on him. If he's there at 41, then go ahead and take a shot.

 

I've seen him on TV, and I watched him live against Pitt this year. Now as a Bills fan, don't you think I had in the back of my mind that I thought maybe he would be on the Bills radar. I left the game unimpressed. Tate was the story of the game, and the reason the Irish had a shot at the end. Not Clausen.

 

The Pro-Clausen movement on this Board has a "Clausen or bust" mentality. Well too many 1st round qbs end up being busts. That sets the franchise back another 5 years. Bills have too many needs to take a shot on anyone at any position with question marks, but especially at QB. I've been in the "OT/LT at No 9" camp from day 1, and that's where I'm staying.