Health Care has passes

[Taro T]

yeah, that's not what "non profit" means. I worked for a non profit when I was 21...most money I ever made in my life. non profit refers to how much money a company can retain.

And "health care" is not what this new law means when it refers to "health care." This law only covers insurance.

 

I am well aware of what "non profit" means when referring to a corporate entity. And that word "does not mean what he thinks it means."

 

Finally, I hope you are only around 25, because if you're up around 40 and never made more than you did when you were 21, that kind of stinks.

[Adam]

It's not the goals or objectives of the bill that are whats wrong with it, in regards to pre existing conditions, kids staying on plans and etc. it's how they fail miserably in the substance of the bill.

 

 

I wrote this in an earlier thread:

Good read. Do you think that if this were done correctly, that we would be able to replace medicare with it?

[Magox]

Good read. Do you think that if this were done correctly, that we would be able to replace medicare with it?

I'm opposed to the whole structure of the bill. I believe the correct path to health care should concentrate on healthier living as opposed to reforming the insurers who pay for care. For me, that's logical.

[Astrojanitor]

There are a lot of issues at work here, tgreg. The first is that you choose to work in an industry (entertainment, right?) that makes you an independent contractor. No one forced you into it.

 

The second is that while it sucks you have that condition, life isn't fair. Look at the celebrities you work with/for/around. What have they done to earn what they get, outside of being born beautiful? What did Paris Hilton do to deserve being born into a rich family? You have more a "right" to demand their money, than you do to demand free health care.

 

But what do you feel you should be paying for insurance? The same as a healthy person, thus making it so that they subsidize you even though they don't have your medical problems? What is the cost to keep you healthy to the insurance company?

 

I know the above is harsh, but again, that's life. In a perfect world, we'd be able to feed, clothe, shelter, educate, and pay everyone in the world. The problem is that there are finite resources and they can't all be given to everyone, while someone has to pay for them.

 

does he demand free health care or does he demand to be treated fairly, not exploited for his condition? He's working, he's paying--he's just getting milked by a broken system.

 

I had a similar, though less serious, situation. I was insurance-less for 2 years because of my asthma. Medication was $10/mo with insurance $250/mo without. Moral of this story is I was off my medication for 2 years. I was willing to work, I was working, I was working at one of our more important jobs (teacher) yet being screwed for something beyond my control by a crooked and ugly system.

 

we're living in a civilization here. we work to improve the situation of those around us.

[Adam]

I'm opposed to the whole structure of the bill. I believe the correct path to health care should concentrate on healthier living as opposed to reforming the insurers who pay for care. For me, that's logical.

If you can follow the structure of a bill that is a few hundred pages, you are a better man than me. There is bound to be so many loopholes that undermine the intent

[Booster4324]

Hey Magox, or anyone with knowledge on the subject, I have a question. There was an insurance person on Rush today. She spoke about their business model and said they were doomed in 2-3 years. She said that the current model is that they are required by state and federal law to pay out 65% of their revenue to claims. The other 35% was for salaries (presumably advertising and real estate too), and a supply of cash in case of a disaster. The Senate bill aims to cut that to 85/15. A quick google search turned up a few things, but not a breakdown of that 35%.

 

Anyone got a clue about this?

[CosmicBills]

(1) There are a lot of issues at work here, tgreg. The first is that you choose to work in an industry (entertainment, right?) that makes you an independent contractor. No one forced you into it.

 

2. The second is that while it sucks you have that condition, life isn't fair. Look at the celebrities you work with/for/around. What have they done to earn what they get, outside of being born beautiful? What did Paris Hilton do to deserve being born into a rich family? You have more a "right" to demand their money, than you do to demand free health care.

 

But what do you feel you should be paying for insurance? The same as a healthy person, thus making it so that they subsidize you even though they don't have your medical problems? What is the cost to keep you healthy to the insurance company?

 

3. I know the above is harsh, but again, that's life. In a perfect world, we'd be able to feed, clothe, shelter, educate, and pay everyone in the world. The problem is that there are finite resources and they can't all be given to everyone, while someone has to pay for them.

1. This is true. I could very easily have stayed in the legal profession. However, isn't that the point of this? This is the land of the free. The land of opportunity where every man is created equal. Yet, you're saying because of the way I was created, I am not afforded the freedom that's fundamental to everyone in the country. Namely, that I can't work for the goals that I want because they system in place today denies me that. It LIMITS my choices.

 

2. This is also a fair point. Life isn't fair. And my story is not intended to be a sob story, all things considered, I'm great and love my life and this country. However, I'm also lucky enough to be able to carry this extra burden financially. My concern are for the countless others who can't. Let's leave choice out of this for the moment -- there are millions of people that have pre-existing conditions that they did not cause that prevent them from being covered by the insurance industry. Why should these people, who have all the same rights as the rest of the citizenry, be outcast?

 

As Tom has said, there's a big difference between insurance and health care. To me, the health insurance industry as a whole is the problem (right there with big pharma). They answer to their stock holders, who answer to the all might dollar. And when you mix profit and greed with people's health -- it's outrageous because greed trumps all. These companies exist to make money and the moment you become too expensive for them, regardless of what you've paid for up till now, they find a way to cut you out. That is not only unfair, it's criminal.

 

3. What this bill is, and what the debates it's generating, is a step forward in this nation's evolution. A positive one. We're the country that put a man on the moon. We bring aid and support to countless millions every day around the world. We are the land of unlimited opportunity and freedom. And yet you're saying we can't find a way to fix a clearly broken system because we're afraid of change?

 

How can we, as citizens of the most wealthy, powerful and compassionate country in the world sit by and watch the health insurance industry ravage our fellow citizens? The industry needs to be eliminated or at the very least changed. Keeping things the way they are now is crazy. While I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the bill entirely, nor am I a democrat, I do think that any step towards changing this mindset in the country is a good thing. At least it's trying to fix the problem. Right now, the only option for EVERYONE, insured or uninsured is to hope you don't get sick. And if you do, to hope you die fast. And I'm sorry, that can't be the best America can do. It just can't.

[Magox]

Hey Magox, or anyone with knowledge on the subject, I have a question. There was an insurance person on Rush today. She spoke about their business model and said they were doomed in 2-3 years. She said that the current model is that they are required by state and federal law to pay out 65% of their revenue to claims. The other 35% was for salaries (presumably advertising and real estate too), and a supply of cash in case of a disaster. The Senate bill aims to cut that to 85/15. A quick google search turned up a few things, but not a breakdown of that 35%.

 

Anyone got a clue about this?

Yes, that claim is bogus. To my understanding the breakdown is 80-20.

[Booster4324]

Yes, that claim is bogus. To my understanding the breakdown is 80-20.

 

That would make more sense, 65/35 is worse odds than the casino I worked at.

[keepthefaith]

Good luck. The argument you have to make now is to convince people who can now afford the insurance that had been wrongfully denied to them before that they should not only give up their insurance, but also support legislation that will prevent them from ever getting it again.

 

Not at all. Reform was a good idea poorly executed by the Dems. All of you that support what was passed have this attitude that it was this or nothing, that no other alternative was available. A number of good ideas and real concerns were expressed in this process, but none were acted upon. Look back to Obama's "summit" with both parties. If you saw any of the highlights, you would have seen several reasonible concerns aired. Obama's response (along with Pelosi)was to push forward regardless of those concerns, concerns aired by citizens.

 

There is a better way and most people feel that way. We elect people to get it right. They haven't.

[Astrojanitor]

And "health care" is not what this new law means when it refers to "health care." This law only covers insurance.

 

I am well aware of what "non profit" means when referring to a corporate entity. And that word "does not mean what he thinks it means."

 

Finally, I hope you are only around 25, because if you're up around 40 and never made more than you did when you were 21, that kind of stinks.

 

32...and you don't have to tell me twice. I had to quit being an adjunct professor at Oklahoma State and take a job as an emergency dispatcher for ADT because I couldn't make bills. Plus ADT's insurance provider will actually provide me insurance. Go education!

[Adam]

Not at all. Reform was a good idea poorly executed by the Dems. All of you that support what was passed have this attitude that it was this or nothing, that no other alternative was available. A number of good ideas and real concerns were expressed in this process, but none were acted upon. Look back to Obama's "summit" with both parties. If you saw any of the highlights, you would have seen several reasonible concerns aired. Obama's response (along with Pelosi)was to push forward regardless of those concerns, concerns aired by citizens.

 

There is a better way and most people feel that way. We elect people to get it right. They haven't.

Yes, but if we vote for anything other than a republican or democrat, then its like we didn't vote......or so the two parties want us to think. The two have made mishmash of this country for a long time.

[DC Tom]

So callous to sit high and judge. I hope a bad series of events don't humble your opinion and see the other side of the coin.

 

Already had my series of events. How do you think I know that pain and suffering are ubiquitous?

[Magox]

For all of you that support this Bill, take a looksy

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...an.1c&pos=9

 

March 23 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration is inflating the success of its main foreclosure prevention program, which may end up doing more harm than good by “spreading out the foreclosure crisis” over several years, according to federal investigators.

 

“A year into the program, although more than a million trial modifications have been initiated, the number of permanent modifications thus far, 168,708, has been, even according to Treasury, ‘disappointing,’” according to a report by a government watchdog obtained by Bloomberg News. “The program will not be a long-term success if large amounts of borrowers simply re-default and end up facing foreclosure anyway.”

 

While Treasury officials still publicly proclaim the Home Affordable Modification Program, or HAMP, will help 3 million to 4 million borrowers, internally they project that about half that number will receive permanent alterations to their loan terms, the Special Inspector General for the Troubled Asset Relief Program wrote in the report. The findings are scheduled to be released at a hearing before the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform March 25.

 

You have to really ask yourself a serious question. Why should you believe the projections from the White House when they say that this bill will cut the deficit when just about every single projection they have made in the past 16 months has been wrong?

 

Really?

 

Remember the Stimulus promise, and how it was suppose to cap the unemployment rate at 8%.

 

Remember the Cash for Clunkers, and how it was suppose to cost $3B and it cost twice that amount.

 

Remember how they said that the deficits would be cut in half by the end of his first term and now the CBO says not only will it not be cut in half but it will be substantially higher.

[Doc]

For all of you that support this Bill, take a looksy

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...an.1c&pos=9

 

 

 

You have to really ask yourself a serious question. Why should you believe the projections from the White House when they say that this bill will cut the deficit when just about every single projection they have made in the past 16 months has been wrong?

16 months? Try 50 years.

[Celtic_soulja]

Alright...on one side we have liberals..."oh, because we care about the citizens...we are monsters"...and on the other you have the wingnuts "they are coming with storm troopers to paint us black and make us poor like THEM"...ridiculous...it's none of those things...

 

One, the HC bill was not a public option or universal HC and therefore this "caring about the citizens" is total crap...it's a mandate with no public option or cost controls...

 

They are putting a 6000 dollar a year bill on the middle class...like the middle class has SO much money they can afford it...liberals will say yeah they do, not realizing 35 grand a year passes for middle class, yet you live in poverty...anyway...

 

The right wings think it's some conspiracy to undermine america...no, THEY REALLY ARE JUST THAT STUPID TO THINK THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION...

 

I subscribe to the theory that you need the mind of a conservative and heart of a socialist...

 

This bill is completely unconstitutional and garbage...what am I going to do about it?...pretty easy, I'm going to ignore it...I'm running for mayor of my rinky dink town as soon as the current mayor is convicted for embezzlement...and I'm going to try and mirror SF's HC plan...and pretend these idiots in Washington do not exist...it's become quite evident that the consitution no longer applies...and therefore I'll protect me and my own people from tyranny myself...

[WisconsinBillzFan]

I'll take the bait and give you a chance.

 

Convince me that this is wrong.

 

Here are some facts about me. I'm employed, I make decent money. I pay taxes. I vote. I have a clean criminal record (except for a few parking tickets).

 

However, I have a pre-existing medical condition that requires me to be on medicine monthly. Expensive medicine. For the rest of my life. If I don't take this medicine, my condition will require even more expensive surgery. If I don't get that expensive surgery, I will die. I did nothing to bring this condition on, it was how I was born (watch the jokes, Tom -- even though I'm setting you up).

 

I have been carrying my own insurance for years now because if I drop it, I cannot get it back. The insurance company, who exists only to make money, knows this. Thus, they've been trying to price me out of my plan for three years. My monthly health insurance costs exceed 1,000 dollars. Last year I was out of pocket over 5k ON TOP of my monthly premiums, bringing my yearly total in medical costs over 18k. 13k out of pocket just to stay IN the system. Because even though I make decent money, if I get dropped from that system, I'll be bankrupt in short order.

 

So what are my options? My industry, by in large, is a job-to-job basis. Meaning, we're all independent contractors who don't get the benefits of having a corporation supply us with benefits. We have to carry our own. In most people's cases that's fine because they're healthy and can either roll the dice and NOT have insurance (and hope they don't get sick or injured), or they can afford to pay low premiums. Despite being healthy other than this condition, I am forced to pay 10x what they pay because I don't have a choice. If I get dropped, or drop my insurance, I'm screwed.

 

So convince me that it's okay for health insurance companies to carry on this way.

 

That's not my or the insurance company's problem.

 

Get a second job. Stop wasting money on frivolous things. Ask your church for help. Do anything other than pick my pocket for a handout.

[RI Bills Fan]

That's not my or the insurance company's problem.

 

Get a second job. Stop wasting money on frivolous things. Ask your church for help. Do anything other than pick my pocket for a handout.

 

And now we know everything we need to know about WBF.

[Celtic_soulja]

That's not my or the insurance company's problem.

 

Get a second job. Stop wasting money on frivolous things. Ask your church for help. Do anything other than pick my pocket for a handout.

 

The middle class is under attack...has been...but lets not pretend it's the poor people doing all the attacking...the top ten percent is taking ALL of your money to...the bottom ten does damage but not nearly as much as these elites do...lets be objective...in 1984 the top 1 percent had 50 percent of the wealth in this nation...now they have 95 percent...who stole more money from your pocket????...

 

It's these insurance companies and bankers stealing all the money...and beleive me, Obama guys would cheer with my statement...but THEY ARE REPRESENTING THOSE SAME SICKENING FOLKS

[Alaska Darin]

I disagree. I'll be fighting for the repeal of this monstrosity every day of my life from here on out.

Repealing this bill is admirable. Supporting the Republican party isn't. Try to figure out the difference, retard.