Health Care has passes

[Adam]

Not the government's responsibility. People should care for themselves.

 

Which is actually beside the point, since this bill does almost nothing of the sort anyway...

How were people's hospital bills payed for in the past, when they couldn't afford it? I know people who had surgery, then never paid for it. Wouldn't tell me what happened either

[Fan in San Diego]

It's hard to care for yourself when the institutions put in place prevent you from being able to do so.

 

You are so right, people dropped, preexisting conditions, cap limits, just to pay shareholders a profit. Healthcare should be non-profit. People are not line items that are expendible.

For all those who think differently, wait till you are on the wrong side the insurance company. Maybe you have a heart attack or diabetes and you lose your job. Good luck getting insurance ever again. Until now, you can thank the Democrats for that, not the greedy selfish republicans.

[Adam]

You are so right, people dropped, preexisting conditions, cap limits, just to pay shareholders a profit. Healthcare should be non-profit. People are not line items that are expendible.

For all those who think differently, wait till you are on the wrong side the insurance company. Maybe you have a heart attack or diabetes and you lose your job. Good luck getting insurance ever again. Until now, you can thank the Democrats for that, not the greedy selfish republicans.

Did the bill make insurance non-profit?

[Magox]

You are so right, people dropped, preexisting conditions, cap limits, just to pay shareholders a profit. Healthcare should be non-profit.

Oh please, spare me the Liberal talking points.

[Fan in San Diego]

Oh please, spare me the Liberal talking points.

These are not just points but pain and suffering of real people.

[Fan in San Diego]

Did the bill make insurance non-profit?

No

[DC Tom]

You are so right, people dropped, preexisting conditions, cap limits, just to pay shareholders a profit. Healthcare should be non-profit.

 

There is a difference between health INSURANCE and health CARE. INSURANCE is what you purchase to indemnify yourself against the risk of a possible future event. CARE is the resources you consume to mitigate that realized risk.

 

It amazes me that so many people don't understand that.

[DC Tom]

These are not just points but pain and suffering of real people.

 

Pain and suffering are the most common things on the planet. You can't mitigate them. They will always exist. Grow up and live with it.

[Taro T]

You are so right, people dropped, preexisting conditions, cap limits, just to pay shareholders a profit. Healthcare should be non-profit. People are not line items that are expendible.

For all those who think differently, wait till you are on the wrong side the insurance company. Maybe you have a heart attack or diabetes and you lose your job. Good luck getting insurance ever again. Until now, you can thank the Democrats for that, not the greedy selfish republicans.

So doctors, nurses, PA's, PT's, pharmacists should all be benevolent and work for free?

[Magox]

So doctors, nurses, PA's, PT's, pharmacists should all be benevolent and work for free?

Exactly!

[Fan in San Diego]

So doctors, nurses, PA's, PT's, pharmacists should all be benevolent and work for free?

 

No of course not. Non-profit means that income equals expenses, or if a surplus then save it for a rainy day.

[CosmicBills]

So what are you doing to fight this "reform"?

I'll take the bait and give you a chance.

 

Convince me that this is wrong.

 

Here are some facts about me. I'm employed, I make decent money. I pay taxes. I vote. I have a clean criminal record (except for a few parking tickets).

 

However, I have a pre-existing medical condition that requires me to be on medicine monthly. Expensive medicine. For the rest of my life. If I don't take this medicine, my condition will require even more expensive surgery. If I don't get that expensive surgery, I will die. I did nothing to bring this condition on, it was how I was born (watch the jokes, Tom -- even though I'm setting you up).

 

I have been carrying my own insurance for years now because if I drop it, I cannot get it back. The insurance company, who exists only to make money, knows this. Thus, they've been trying to price me out of my plan for three years. My monthly health insurance costs exceed 1,000 dollars. Last year I was out of pocket over 5k ON TOP of my monthly premiums, bringing my yearly total in medical costs over 18k. 13k out of pocket just to stay IN the system. Because even though I make decent money, if I get dropped from that system, I'll be bankrupt in short order.

 

So what are my options? My industry, by in large, is a job-to-job basis. Meaning, we're all independent contractors who don't get the benefits of having a corporation supply us with benefits. We have to carry our own. In most people's cases that's fine because they're healthy and can either roll the dice and NOT have insurance (and hope they don't get sick or injured), or they can afford to pay low premiums. Despite being healthy other than this condition, I am forced to pay 10x what they pay because I don't have a choice. If I get dropped, or drop my insurance, I'm screwed.

 

So convince me that it's okay for health insurance companies to carry on this way.

[Fan in San Diego]

So doctors, nurses, PA's, PT's, pharmacists should all be benevolent and work for free?

 

Dont be silly, check some of the hospitals around you, I'm sure you will find a few that are non-profit. People there don't work for free. No one works for free.

[Fan in San Diego]

Pain and suffering are the most common things on the planet. You can't mitigate them. They will always exist. Grow up and live with it.

 

So callous to sit high and judge. I hope a bad series of events don't humble your opinion and see the other side of the coin.

[Magox]

I'll take the bait and give you a chance.

 

Convince me that this is wrong.

 

Here are some facts about me. I'm employed, I make decent money. I pay taxes. I vote. I have a clean criminal record (except for a few parking tickets).

 

However, I have a pre-existing medical condition that requires me to be on medicine monthly. Expensive medicine. For the rest of my life. If I don't take this medicine, my condition will require even more expensive surgery. If I don't get that expensive surgery, I will die. I did nothing to bring this condition on, it was how I was born (watch the jokes, Tom -- even though I'm setting you up).

 

I have been carrying my own insurance for years now because if I drop it, I cannot get it back. The insurance company, who exists only to make money, knows this. Thus, they've been trying to price me out of my plan for three years. My monthly health insurance costs exceed 1,000 dollars. Last year I was out of pocket over 5k ON TOP of my monthly premiums, bringing my yearly total in medical costs over 18k. 13k out of pocket just to stay IN the system. Because even though I make decent money, if I get dropped from that system, I'll be bankrupt in short order.

 

So what are my options? My industry, by in large, is a job-to-job basis. Meaning, we're all independent contractors who don't get the benefits of having a corporation supply us with benefits. We have to carry our own. In most people's cases that's fine because they're healthy and can either roll the dice and NOT have insurance (and hope they don't get sick or injured), or they can afford to pay low premiums. Despite being healthy other than this condition, I am forced to pay 10x what they pay because I don't have a choice. If I get dropped, or drop my insurance, I'm screwed.

 

So convince me that it's okay for health insurance companies to carry on this way.

It's not the goals or objectives of the bill that are whats wrong with it, in regards to pre existing conditions, kids staying on plans and etc. it's how they fail miserably in the substance of the bill.

 

 

I wrote this in an earlier thread:

 

There are benefits starting almost immediately, such as allowing your child up to age 26 stay on your health insurance plan, and insurance companies not being able to deny people with pre existing coverage. However the fact that insurance companies cannot deny people with pre existing conditions will do two things.

 

1. It will add more sick people to the health insurance risk pools which will bring up premiums for everyone else.

 

2. Some people will circumvent the system and drop out of coverage knowing that they can pick up health insurance at any time that they would like to, specially now considering that there are no penalties and that there will be healthier people dropping out of the health insurance risk pools, which once again means higher premiums.

 

3. Additional taxation for families that make $250,000 and on top of that another 3.8% Medicare tax on all unearned income (dividends, properties, etc).

 

So to recap, the positives over the next 2 years will be for people who are sick who won't be able to get denied and also for families that have children that will still be eligible to stay on their health insurance plans. The Negatives will be substantially higher premiums for people on the individual market along with much higher taxes. Let me also remind people that the Bush Tax cuts are going to expire soon, so there is going to be a massive new tax on the upper echelon earners over the next couple years.

 

What will see over the next 5 years.

 

Positives:

 

1. People who qualify for government subsidies will pay less for their insurance because of government assistance.

 

2. There is a good chance that there will be more people carrying insurance which will put more downward pressure on premiums because of the amount of healthy people entering into the risk pools.

 

3.. There will be small tax credits for small businesses.

 

4. The prescription donut hole will begin to close which eventually will mean up to $250 in rebates a year for senior citizens.

 

Negatives:

 

1. Severe Cuts in Medicare that will affect many senior citizens

 

2. Mandates on individuals, requiring they pick up health insurance which will put a strain on some younger individuals.

 

3. Mandates on businesses that have to carry insurance that is up to par by government standards. Example Caterpillar, CEO on Friday stated that it will cost his company $100 Million in the first year alone.

 

4. Shortage of Primary Care physicians, there are many of these physicians that are looking to drop out of this field and a survey was recently done showing that not many college students are looking into this area of care. Bottom line, the waits at doctors offices will be much worse than it is today.

 

5. $10 Billion a year tax on the health insurers. (how dumb is this?) This means that the health insurers will pass along the costs to who? Premiums will go up.

 

6. $2.8 Billion a year excise tax on medical device equipment. Same as #5. Costs will get passed to health care providers which in turn will get passed on to the insurers which then will get passed to the consumer.

 

7. $2.5 Billion a year tax on Pharma. Same as above, drug prescription taxes will get passed to the consumer.

 

8. Big Pharma struck a deal with the White House that would block the reimportation of foreign cheaper drugs from entering into the country. Higher Drug prices

 

 

Long term effect 10 years out

 

1. States will be overburdened with Medicaid costs. Government added assistance expires. State governments will have to make severe cuts in hospital staff, equipment and rationing unless Federal Government extends more assistance which in turn means higher deficits.

 

2. National Deficit will begin to start taking a pretty big hit. "Doc Fix" will already be signed into law permanently and costs will be much higher than expected as they always are.

 

3. As a result of deficits becoming out of control, government will begin to ration care under the cover of "unnecessary tests" and etc.

[Magox]

Dont be silly, check some of the hospitals around you, I'm sure you will find a few that are non-profit. People there don't work for free. No one works for free.

So Hospitals/Doctors/Nurses should all be part of a non-profit organization? All pharmaceutical companies as well?

 

Oh btw, are you outraged that the White House didn't pressure Big Pharma, considering that there profit margins are 17.9% vs. Health Insurance companies who were at 4.3% ?

 

In other words, the big bad evil health insurance companies make 4 times less in profit margins relative to the Pharmaceutical companies.

 

Another question, why aren't we able to allow the reimporation of cheaper drugs into the countries to compete with Big Pharma? Why is that?

[IDBillzFan]

So callous to sit high and judge. I hope a bad series of events don't humble your opinion and see the other side of the coin.

A friendly note to quit while you're ahead.

[Doc]

I'll take the bait and give you a chance.

 

Convince me that this is wrong.

 

Here are some facts about me. I'm employed, I make decent money. I pay taxes. I vote. I have a clean criminal record (except for a few parking tickets).

 

However, I have a pre-existing medical condition that requires me to be on medicine monthly. Expensive medicine. For the rest of my life. If I don't take this medicine, my condition will require even more expensive surgery. If I don't get that expensive surgery, I will die. I did nothing to bring this condition on, it was how I was born (watch the jokes, Tom -- even though I'm setting you up).

 

I have been carrying my own insurance for years now because if I drop it, I cannot get it back. The insurance company, who exists only to make money, knows this. Thus, they've been trying to price me out of my plan for three years. My monthly health insurance costs exceed 1,000 dollars. Last year I was out of pocket over 5k ON TOP of my monthly premiums, bringing my yearly total in medical costs over 18k. 13k out of pocket just to stay IN the system. Because even though I make decent money, if I get dropped from that system, I'll be bankrupt in short order.

 

So what are my options? My industry, by in large, is a job-to-job basis. Meaning, we're all independent contractors who don't get the benefits of having a corporation supply us with benefits. We have to carry our own. In most people's cases that's fine because they're healthy and can either roll the dice and NOT have insurance (and hope they don't get sick or injured), or they can afford to pay low premiums. Despite being healthy other than this condition, I am forced to pay 10x what they pay because I don't have a choice. If I get dropped, or drop my insurance, I'm screwed.

 

So convince me that it's okay for health insurance companies to carry on this way.

There are a lot of issues at work here, tgreg. The first is that you choose to work in an industry (entertainment, right?) that makes you an independent contractor. No one forced you into it.

 

The second is that while it sucks you have that condition, life isn't fair. Look at the celebrities you work with/for/around. What have they done to earn what they get, outside of being born beautiful? What did Paris Hilton do to deserve being born into a rich family? You have more a "right" to demand their money, than you do to demand free health care.

 

But what do you feel you should be paying for insurance? The same as a healthy person, thus making it so that they subsidize you even though they don't have your medical problems? What is the cost to keep you healthy to the insurance company?

 

I know the above is harsh, but again, that's life. In a perfect world, we'd be able to feed, clothe, shelter, educate, and pay everyone in the world. The problem is that there are finite resources and they can't all be given to everyone, while someone has to pay for them.

[Astrojanitor]

So doctors, nurses, PA's, PT's, pharmacists should all be benevolent and work for free?

 

yeah, that's not what "non profit" means. I worked for a non profit when I was 21...most money I ever made in my life. non profit refers to how much money a company can retain.

[Taro T]

No of course not. Non-profit means that income equals expenses, or if a surplus then save it for a rainy day.

So what are appropriate expenses for a Dr to have, and what are appropriate expenses for a PA to have?

Dont be silly, check some of the hospitals around you, I'm sure you will find a few that are non-profit. People there don't work for free. No one works for free.

No, but you state that "[h]ealthcare should be non-profit." That being the case, they should provide the healthcare at a rate that equals their expenses. Right?

 

And what rate of return should a company like Johnson and Johnson get to make medical devices which get used in healthcare? What should Pfizer's ror be? What is the incentive for them to expend money in the healthcare field when "healthcare should be non-profit" but other industries are for profit?