So Today is the Day, The Government Takeover

[meazza]

Still has to go thru reconciliation and there will be plenty of challenges by several State Attorneys General

 

http://www.rightbias.com/Images/taxpayer%20front%20585.JPG

[/dev/null]

It's not Football but we can still do a Sunday Pick 'em contest

 

Passes with 217-220 votes so there is enough cover for vulnerable Dems to vote Yes and go home claiming that their single No vote wouldn't have made a difference

[Thirdborn]

It's not Football but we can still do a Sunday Pick 'em contest

 

Passes with 217-220 votes so there is enough cover for vulnerable Dems to vote Yes and go home claiming that their single No vote wouldn't have made a difference

 

 

Hypnotoad.

[Doc]

It's not Football but we can still do a Sunday Pick 'em contest

 

Passes with 217-220 votes so there is enough cover for vulnerable Dems to vote Yes and go home claiming that their single No vote wouldn't have made a difference

They can claim whatever they want. Most of them are dead come November.

[LeviF]

Got an email from my congressman, Scott Murphy, explaining why he was voting yes. I almost threw my laptop across the room. He voted against the original bill. !@#$in' sell-out.

[Doc]

Got an email from my congressman, Scott Murphy, explaining why he was voting yes. I almost threw my laptop across the room. He voted against the original bill. !@#$in' sell-out.

Send him an e-mail back saying "congrats, you lost a vote come November."

[PastaJoe]

No Pasta Joe's equating this to the Civil Rights Bill.

 

Some of you are so thick. I didn't equate it's importance to Civil Rights, I equated the opposition and arguments that it will ruin our country to the same arguments that were made in opposition to the Civil Rights Bill.

 

Now go stock up your fruit cellar and load your muskets, cuz tomorrow the gov't is coming to get you! (Or so you've been told by the nutjobs)

[WWVaBeach]

What time is the vote?

[IDBillzFan]

Some of you are so thick. I didn't equate it's importance to Civil Rights, I equated the opposition and arguments that it will ruin our country to the same arguments that were made in opposition to the Civil Rights Bill.

 

Now go stock up your fruit cellar and load your muskets, cuz tomorrow the gov't is coming to get you! (Or so you've been told by the nutjobs)

Further proof that you, like most liberals cheering this bill, are using the low-hanging fruit for your rhetoric.

 

I'm really, really tired of arguing this with folks like yourself, but let me try one last time to explain why people like myself are so upset by what is happening:

 

1) This bill does nothing to address the problems with health care costs today. Nothing. It will, in fact, increase costs and lower quality of care. It does the complete opposite of what everyone is being promised right now.

 

2) This bill does one thing well; increase the presence of government in our lives. Most people want less government in their lives, not less. The handful of people who DO like more government in their lives are simply lazy people who believe they deserve everything simply for existing. This is not what makes this a great country, and it actually weakens us as a great power that the rest of the world consistently relies upon for help.

 

3) We can't afford it. We simply don't have the money. You can tax all the rich people and take all the profits and we STILL can't afford it. I used to think it was funny that liberals just felt like fiscal responsibility was seondary to helping the few helpless in this world, but now I'm pretty damn concerned. Our kids are going to be paying out the ass for this particular entitlement, and that causes me even more anger and concern.

 

It's a horrible, horrible bill, and simply pointing at a handful of helpless people and a larger group of clueless people and saying "See, we're helping them now" does not, in any way, change the three points I've just made.

 

And look, I know you don't care about any of this, but stop overdramatizing why people are upset about this. There's a reason so many people hate this, and it's not because you're smarter than them.

[/dev/null]

It's not Football but we can still do a Sunday Pick 'em contest

 

Passes with 217-220 votes so there is enough cover for vulnerable Dems to vote Yes and go home claiming that their single No vote wouldn't have made a difference

 

Sometimes it sucks being right all the time

[OCinBuffalo]

Some of you are so thick. I didn't equate it's importance to Civil Rights, I equated the opposition and arguments that it will ruin our country to the same arguments that were made in opposition to the Civil Rights Bill.

 

Now go stock up your fruit cellar and load your muskets, cuz tomorrow the gov't is coming to get you! (Or so you've been told by the nutjobs)

Yes, the litany of economic and policy issues I have with this....are because I am a racist, and have nothing to do with the fact that I now know the health care industry well enough to get paid to advise it.

 

Yes, I am NOT arguing increasing demand, while either holding supply(Docs and Nurses) constant or, due to cutting reimbursement, reducing supply, drives prices higher(you know, basic economics...that apparently you never took?), which means schit COSTS MORE, and SCHIT COSTING MORE does not "reduce the cost of healthcare".

 

Nope.

 

Nah...I am saying that the black man doesn't know how to take care of himself, and that guaranteeing him his civil rights will only exacerbate the problem by taking away the structure that is currently being provided, that he is dependent upon, and without which his existence will be significantly worse(you know, the argument that is the history of the Southern Democrat ...that apparently you never took?).

 

....wait a minute, PastaIdiot is right, those are the EXACT SAME arguments. And, here, all this time I thought I was making a rational macro-economic case....nah, turns out, I'm just a racist!

[keepthefaith]

Further proof that you, like most liberals cheering this bill, are using the low-hanging fruit for your rhetoric.

 

I'm really, really tired of arguing this with folks like yourself, but let me try one last time to explain why people like myself are so upset by what is happening:

 

1) This bill does nothing to address the problems with health care costs today. Nothing. It will, in fact, increase costs and lower quality of care. It does the complete opposite of what everyone is being promised right now.

 

2) This bill does one thing well; increase the presence of government in our lives. Most people want less government in their lives, not less. The handful of people who DO like more government in their lives are simply lazy people who believe they deserve everything simply for existing. This is not what makes this a great country, and it actually weakens us as a great power that the rest of the world consistently relies upon for help.

 

3) We can't afford it. We simply don't have the money. You can tax all the rich people and take all the profits and we STILL can't afford it. I used to think it was funny that liberals just felt like fiscal responsibility was seondary to helping the few helpless in this world, but now I'm pretty damn concerned. Our kids are going to be paying out the ass for this particular entitlement, and that causes me even more anger and concern.

 

It's a horrible, horrible bill, and simply pointing at a handful of helpless people and a larger group of clueless people and saying "See, we're helping them now" does not, in any way, change the three points I've just made.

 

And look, I know you don't care about any of this, but stop overdramatizing why people are upset about this. There's a reason so many people hate this, and it's not because you're smarter than them.

 

 

The bill is mostly a thinly veiled entitlement to provide free or subsidized coverage to the less productive class. Just another brick in the Obama wall of social and economic justice.

 

What is really disturbing to me is how the screaming voice of the majority of citizens can be to a great extent ignored by members of Congress and that they can push forward such a poorly constructed and expensive solution.

 

Immigration reform may take on a very similar personality with the majority of Americans wanting our borders secured and for illegal immigrants to leave. Those positions will be well supporterd by numbers in terms of costs and jobs yet the Democratic Congress and White House are expected to push forward what will in the end be an amnesty plan.

[OCinBuffalo]

Sometimes it sucks being right all the time

It's a tough burden to bear, I agree.

 

But, look at it this way: you could be in the Wrong Club....

 

conner as Pres. and Archbishop of Science

Molson_Golden as honorary Pres.

PastaJoe as Vice President, and the "Brains" of the Operation

wawrow as Secretary and Intelligence Testing Officer

blzurl as "We have to look after the poor, as long as they don't get their filth on us or our sedan" Treasurer

RI as Chief "Get off my lawn, LBJ was a great President, You don't know anything about the Navy! ...and now can I please tell you?" guy

Big Cat as Entitlement Receiving Officer and Mascot of the Club, as they affectionately call him, "HandOut"

Booster as Assistant "LAMP" guy(and in few months he'll make Lamp Guy Manager, and that's when the big attention starts rolling in) and Chief Post Chaser

EII as "I don't have a clue dude, I live in a van down by the lake, and dammit, it all comes down to Lake Michigan!" guy

 

and last and least, Bad Lietenant, "Dude, I just mop up at night" guy or part-time Club Janitor, or "Whatever, just make sure you leave me enough money for pizza" guy.

[IDBillzFan]

The bill is mostly a thinly veiled entitlement to provide free or subsidized coverage to the less productive class. Just another brick in the Obama wall of social and economic justice.

 

What is really disturbing to me is how the screaming voice of the majority of citizens can be to a great extent ignored by members of Congress and that they can push forward such a poorly constructed and expensive solution.

 

Immigration reform may take on a very similar personality with the majority of Americans wanting our borders secured and for illegal immigrants to leave. Those positions will be well supporterd by numbers in terms of costs and jobs yet the Democratic Congress and White House are expected to push forward what will in the end be an amnesty plan.

Sorry to sidestep an otherwise interesting comment by you, but I couldn't help but notice that whenever you discuss the items I discussed (which you quoted in your post), there is not a single liberal that even remotely tries to argue with it.

 

Liberals either completely understand the uselessness of this bill, or they're too stupid to figure it out. So what you get from them? The usual liberal tripe, which predictably includes the one or more of the following:

 

"You're teabagging idiots!"

 

"Someone called the congressman a !@#$!"

 

"You want people to die."

 

"Ha. Ha. You lose. Call the waaaambulance."

 

While I understand that being a conservative as I am is, to many, just the polar opposite of being a single-thought liberal, but believe me, I'd rather be a dick than a pusssssy any day.

[keepthefaith]

Sorry to sidestep an otherwise interesting comment by you, but I couldn't help but notice that whenever you discuss the items I discussed (which you quoted in your post), there is not a single liberal that even remotely tries to argue with it.

 

Liberals either completely understand the uselessness of this bill, or they're too stupid to figure it out. So what you get from them? The usual liberal tripe, which predictably includes the one or more of the following:

 

"You're teabagging idiots!"

 

"Someone called the congressman a !@#$!"

 

"You want people to die."

 

"Ha. Ha. You lose. Call the waaaambulance."

 

While I understand that being a conservative as I am is, to many, just the polar opposite of being a single-thought liberal, but believe me, I'd rather be a dick than a pusssssy any day.

 

Plenty of Republicans and conservatives were willing to take Bush to the mat for some of his bone-headed moves or inaction on important issues. His approval rate was in the 20's for much of his 2nd term which means he didn't have a lot of support among Republicans. Libs on this board and all over would gain a lot of credibility if they simply stepped out of line once in a while and recognized some of the shoddy work being done in Washington as shoddy.

[buffaloaggie]

This country's problem goes way beyond just healthcare, but the idea of government dictating healthcare is just one more steep hill for the proverbial snowball to roll down.

 

Medicare is filled with fraud.

 

The Medicare program, which spends more than $400 billion a year, reviews only 3% of those claims, he said. Medicare has reported that it improperly paid more than $10 billion in claims in the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2008.

WSJ 10/28/2009

 

Now, we're giving them a bigger piece of the pie? An inefficient government run program is going to all of the sudden be run as a tight ship under ObamaCare? If people would take the time that they do to figure out how to defraud the government, and put that time to actually be productive, we'd be way better off.

 

More and more Physicians are dropping Medicare because what the government pays on a claim does not cover their expenses. Welcome to Canada. Goodbye Medical students. The Medical profession will not pay, and we'll be stuck with fewer physicians. I'm not even delving into education budgets being cut everywhere, which may lead to poorly trained medical personnel. That's a whole different discussion.

 

If Obama had just focused on jobs by reversing the outsourcing, more Americans would have jobs, we'd have a bigger tax base and those who are actually willing to work for a living would have health insurance through their employers.

 

We truly have become an idiocracy today. Thank you politicians and lobbyists, gotta love em.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Well, I'm forked...as usual. Finally find a place where I enjoy what I'm doing (Medicare Supplements) and then some chuckleheads in Washington change the rules totally. I give myself a couple of years before I'm looking for ANOTHER job. Screw you, Washington.

 

Oh, And Nancy Pelosi...PATRIOTIC? You're ivory tower behind wouldn't know patriotism if it kicked you in the teeth.

[Spiderweb]

If this atrocity ever does take hold then the United States will be turned into Cuba in very short order. Liberty killer, jobs killer, wealth killer, health killer. His next move will be to lead the charge of granting citizenship to 15 million mexicans living illegally in this country and get them into union jobs in an attempt to checkmate the 2012 election. Oh yeah, they will be added to the state run healthcare system also. We officially have a "Hugo Chavez" as our president until the REAL and very angry American citizens either vote him out in 2012 or he gets impeached by a 2011 republican led congress. As we saw in VA, NJ and MA, moderate and conservative Americans don't very much like their opinions to be given the back hand.

 

It's this monumentally radical and liberal presidential disaster like the one we are witnessing, that will propel a very conservative and very populist Sarah Palin into the presidency. I didn't think this could ever seriously happen given what a polarizing figure she is, but now I can totally see this coming to fruition. She is the polar opposite of Obama. The commie-lovin liberals are going to get "slaughtered" this november.

 

You Sir, and I use the respectful and salutary "Sir" extremely loosely in your case, are a nut job. Sure, we just eight years of the dumbest president in our history, and you wish to follow that up after a four year break with the one person on the planet old George may have been smarter than?

 

You are the problem.

[Spiderweb]

Alright, 9-11 reference is taking it too far...

 

That said, I have the same worry. Not so much for the healthcare side, but for the financial side, 2.5 trillion in new spending with money we don't have.

 

The good news? The majority of spending doesn't start for 3 years due to the budget gimmickry of the dems to get this to sound like it costs 900 Billion. Plenty of time for

 

1) Republicans to win back the house and start dismantling this bill

2) Obama to get voted out, as he's now going to focus on immigration (instead of jobs) which is only going to infuriate the country more. His negatives are matching Bush right now.

 

Obama is going to keep steaming ahead, part of me admires him for that, but most of me wants to now see him fail after ignoring the 3 to 1 margin of citizens against this bill and reckless spending when he tells Americans they need to be wiser with their money.

 

Bill. might you care to revise the GOP rhetoric as to the "American people" and the percentages for and against the "Bill". The stated math just doesn't quite match reality.

 

One current poll

[Picnic Table F'er]

I can't remember the last time I felt this way. Probably not since 9/11 have I been so worried for this country. I warned everyone this guy was a socialist and I was right.

 

Here is a comic from 1934

http://i.imgur.com/reOAh.jpg

 

Either WisconsinBillzFan is 100 years old and made that cartoon when he was in his 20's, or these fear tactics have been being used for centuries.