LeviF Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 How is it that you know that Tim's friend is imaginary? Pretty bold claim there Matty I think Matty would say that the bold claim is made by the other side. Just a guess
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Actually I'm not looking for a fight on it or anything else. For once I really have better things to do (although trying to do anything but). But again you've made no verifiable statement, made reference to nothing substantiative. I provided sources, you provided opinions. Your points are therefore anything but "valid." Ahh yes, I must have taken all that talk of murder, rape and enslavement out of context. It all starts to make sense now. Most religions teach you to spread the religion - Christianity is not alone in that. But it teaches a lot of other stuff...that I've apparently taken out of context. Is slavery in the bible... Yes. Are the standards for the slaves much greater than common beliefs about slavery ... yes. Slavery was a part of the world for most of history. It was not as much of the fact that there is slavery, but much more on how you treat them. Your passage on rape and abortion was about what other nations were going to do to the nation of Israel because God allowed them to do what they wanted.
Leonidas Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Something tells me that if there is a supreme deity is up there and he ignored the pleas of the victims of Katrina, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden, etc. etc., he wasn't going to answer Timmy when taking an exam. Maybe that's just me.
BillsRUs Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Really? Come on... How many times do you need to make this ridiculous statement in this thread? I understood that you had no clue the first time you made it. You didn't need to repeat it again and again. Leave him be. Everyone ignored his post . No point drawing more attention to it.
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Something tells me that if there is a supreme deity is up there and he ignored the pleas of the victims of Katrina, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden, etc. etc., he wasn't going to answer Timmy when taking an exam. Maybe that's just me. So because God allows man to choose between him and living for themselves makes him not care?
Leonidas Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Is slavery in the bible... Yes. Are the standards for the slaves much greater than common beliefs about slavery ... yes. Slavery was a part of the world for most of history. It was not as much of the fact that there is slavery, but much more on how you treat them. Your passage on rape and abortion was about what other nations were going to do to the nation of Israel because God allowed them to do what they wanted. "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31.15-18) "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." (Isaiah 13. 13-19) Yes, what a lovely story that Bible is. You know what? This really isn't the forum for it. I apologize.
MattyT Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 I think Matty would say that the bold claim is made by the other side. Just a guess Yep, I would agree that it is bold to make supernatural claims and then point the finger at those who don't believe the same.
Leonidas Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Leave him be. Everyone ignored his post . No point drawing more attention to it. Apparently not. But feel free to contribute. Cute how you found an ally in this though. So because God allows man to choose between him and living for themselves makes him not care? I don't know what that means...
SuperKillerRobots Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...est-falls-flat/ hahahahahaha, I wonder what Tebows' face looked like. I think he'll be a good player, but this holy roller crap is starting to get old. I wonder if he would actually lose respect of players for being such an uptight churchie.
NorCal Aaron Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Why, because of Tim Tebow, this thread has become quite the abortion.
Sig1Hunter Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31.15-18) "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children. And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." (Isaiah 13. 13-19) Yes, what a lovely story that Bible is. You know what? This really isn't the forum for it. I apologize. When you were in Catholic school, were you told that all Bible stories were rosy, happy, milk, and honey? What you failed to include is the fact that the Midianites (Numbers 31) were a sinful people who were trying to lead the Israelites (God's people) into apostasy. To protect his people, God sent his wrath on on the Midianites. As far as your second reference this is a prophecy regarding the destruction of Babylon (the pagan empire that wanted to destroy the Israelites) - and you failed to include the verses 11-12. "I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir." Lovely stories? No. No one claimed that they were. Now, why don't you go back to your Christian skeptic manual and try again.
Celtic_soulja Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 This is such a non issue it isn't even funny...I'm sure Tebow didn't cry himself to sleep because some pathetic punk azz kid told him to shut the f up...I'm sure, even the church boy, has heard worse...I'm sure he'll continue to do as a good christian does and ask for prayer and offer religion to others...ostercized or not, I'm sure he'll be okay...and to the dimwit who wrote the article...I'm sure the GM's of NFL franchises aren't going "I was gonna draft Tebow, but praying in OUR locker room????...FORGET IT." They say it like it's some CHALLENGE dealing with some religious war in locker rooms...meanwhile the Bills have had a few Mormon players...and just to be sure, Mormons do witnessing in third world countries for two years before being able to pass as Mormon church members...sooooo...yeah, they might be up for a religious chat...there have also been Muslim football players as well...it's not a big deal...it's not a draft breaker over if someone is vocal about thier beliefs or not...one name here in Buffalo comes to mind...Frank Reich ring a bell?...how about Reggie White???...hmmmmm...there have been PLENTY of vocal "holy rollers" as y'all are talking about that have been wonderful in many locker rooms...this "shut the f*ck up kid" wasn't named...wonder why?...THAT might be a disturbance...more so than a dude sayin "wanna pray?"...
billsrcursed Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 You are probably right. I strike it up to him being young. Of course. I don't think there was any ill-intent. He wasn't advising, "Pray now or burn in hell". I realize people get uptight about things like this, but if this is Tebow at his worst, well, he didn't take anyone's $20 for not praying, so I don't think he's all that bad. It's a touchy subject for sure, and Tim will learn that as he continues to mature.
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Do I believe in God.....yes Do I pray often.....yes Do I wish the said player would have said something less derogatory when Tebow didwhat he did.....yes Do I wish Tebow would practice his religion privately and not push it on others without them asking....yes Does this mean that I am in agreement with everyone in this thread?
Leonidas Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 When you were in Catholic school, were you told that all Bible stories were rosy, happy, milk, and honey? What you failed to include is the fact that the Midianites (Numbers 31) were a sinful people who were trying to lead the Israelites (God's people) into apostasy. To protect his people, God sent his wrath on on the Midianites. As far as your second reference this is a prophecy regarding the destruction of Babylon (the pagan empire that wanted to destroy the Israelites) - and you failed to include the verses 11-12. "I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir." Lovely stories? No. No one claimed that they were. Now, why don't you go back to your Christian skeptic manual and try again. I thought you weren't going to engage? And do you really think those are the only two out there (Deuteronomy 22:20-21, I Corinthians 14:34-35, Deuteronomy 25:11-12, Exodus 32:27-29, Numbers 16:49, etc. etc.)? And sending "wrath" is taking their women as "love slaves"? Nice.
Sig1Hunter Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 I thought you weren't going to engage? And do you really think those are the only two out there (Deuteronomy 22:20-21, I Corinthians 14:34-35, Deuteronomy 25:11-12, Exodus 32:27-29, Numbers 16:49, etc. etc.)? And sending "wrath" is taking their women as "love slaves"? Nice. Yeah, well, you got me. Happy? In none of the translations I have looked at, does it say anything about "love slaves". That seems to be something you added in for effect. The translation you cut and pasted could mean that, but it said "keep for yourselves". This could mean to keep them in some other form of servitude. Furthermore, as you will notice, the passage in Numbers 31 that you quoted is from Moses, not God. Moses is human, and therefore subject to the sinful nature and desires of man.
BillsRUs Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Apparently not. But feel free to contribute. Cute how you found an ally in this though. I don't know what that means... A. I wasn't born christian. [Hint: I have many imaginary friends] B. I am Agnostic. C. I am not his "ally". I just don't believe this forum should be used for religious debate. I know that in your first and in another post you said that you didnt want to stir controversy or start debating, but here we are. It ended up being pretty much the same as Tebow as asking a bunch of people to pray - uncomfortable. But yeah, overall,parts of this thread were pretty frikkin' hilarious. Can anyone see Tebow leading a crusade....on the field...in a Bills uniform???
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 What I find humorous is that all the years I attended Catholic schools I don't ever recall opening a bible once...ever. I do remember going to mass everyday before lunch @ St Barnabas though. Bible study? No such thing though we did have prayer books.
IHFO Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Yeah, well, you got me. Happy? In none of the translations I have looked at, does it say anything about "love slaves". That seems to be something you added in for effect. The translation you cut and pasted could mean that, but it said "keep for yourselves". This could mean to keep them in some other form of servitude. Furthermore, as you will notice, the passage in Numbers 31 that you quoted is from Moses, not God. Moses is human, and therefore subject to the sinful nature and desires of man. haha I love it when people take certain bible verses or what not and twist them to prove a point by leaving certain other verses out and not taking the whole story in context, THAT'S !@#$ing hilarious actually...not what happened in this room. The bible is not an end all be all for the way of christian life, simply guidelines if you choose to follow them.
Mark Vader Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 I agree it was disgusting for Tebow to disrespect the other players by asking them to pray to his Christian god right before taking an important test that could possibly cost them real-life dollars, not the imaginary religious capital he tries to gain at every turn by shoving his piety in people's faces. Again, if Tebow really did want to pray for the right reasons, he could have mouthed a prayer silently to himself. I hear the Lawd is an excellent lip reader. I think you give the Wonderlic too much credit. It sure did'nt cost Jason Peters big money.
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