The Council of Trent

[Celtic_soulja]

Okay Okay...you have Big Ben from Pittsburgh to win it in his second year....other than him...NOBODY...THEY ALL HAVE WON WELL AFTER THIER THIRD YEARS IN THE NFL...so get off Trent's back...PLEASE...the kid hasn't had ample time to prove anything one way or the other...he hasn't solidyfied he's a franchise QB...

 

BUT NEITHER HAS HE PROVED HE IS NOT...

[PDaDdy]

Okay, number one, those stats were not saying EDWARDS IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE AS GOOD AS MONTANA...they were to iterate that the jury has to still be out...what I failed to mention is the good and bad QB's separate themselves from the pack during games 32-48...so until AFTER this season we shouldn't pull the trigger on Edwards...

 

To answer you.... J P Losman...completed less of his passes...had a 1000 yards LESS than Edwards...and had an interception percentage of 6 percent...so WHATEVER DUDE...after 32 games Edwards per attemps threw only 3 percent interceptions...and 1000 more yards after 32 games....take that how you want, but I think we pulled Losman a little early to...but when Edwards came in and did what he did, showed the cool calmness and intelligence he did...Losman knew just like we knew his days were numbered

 

Nice try pal but no dice. Anyone with a brain can see through your stats.

 

You seem to have forgotten TDs in your Losman bashing....hmmm...I wonder why???? Perhaps because Losman threw 33 to Trents 24??? NEWS FLASH...points win games!!!! Losman put them on the board.

 

On the yardage you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Losman threw for almost 1000 MORE yards than Edwards. Stop lying and giving inaccurate stats.

 

Completion percentage is BS unless it is really low. If you play kitty ball like Edwards you're going to have fewer interceptions and a meaningless check down laden completion percentage.

 

By the way ....Losman was able to put up those numbers while being yanked in and out of the starting lineup. Trent got his numbers as the undisputed starter for almost the whole time.

 

PLEASE PLEASE don't confuse Edwards timid ballless mediocrity as calmness and intelligence. HE DOES NOT PASS THE EYEBALL TEST!!! The poster based his statements on numbers. My very accurate and logical retort is that JPs numbers were always better. If you use the numbers to make a case for Edwards...how could you not for Losman????

 

That being said neither is the guy that will lead this team effectively. PLEASE stop swinging from this guys nuts. He is a career backup.

[Celtic_soulja]

Nice try pal but no dice. Anyone with a brain can see through your stats.

 

You seem to have forgotten TDs in your Losman bashing....hmmm...I wonder why???? Perhaps because Losman threw 33 to Trents 24??? NEWS FLASH...points win games!!!! Losman put them on the board.

 

On the yardage you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Losman threw for almost 1000 MORE yards than Edwards. Stop lying and giving inaccurate stats.

 

Completion percentage is BS unless it is really low. If you play kitty ball like Edwards you're going to have fewer interceptions and a meaningless check down laden completion percentage.

 

By the way ....Losman was able to put up those numbers while being yanked in and out of the starting lineup. Trent got his numbers as the undisputed starter for almost the whole time.

 

PLEASE PLEASE don't confuse Edwards timid ballless mediocrity as calmness and intelligence. HE DOES NOT PASS THE EYEBALL TEST!!! The poster based his statements on numbers. My very accurate and logical retort is that JPs numbers were always better. If you use the numbers to make a case for Edwards...how could you not for Losman????

 

That being said neither is the guy that will lead this team effectively. PLEASE stop swinging from this guys nuts. He is a career backup.

 

Really?...33 TD's in the first 32 games????? are you sure...I got 27....and hmmmmm....4,423 yard through the first 32 games is what I got...what do you got and more importantly WHERE DID YOU GET IT???

 

JP Losman.......56% comp.............4,423 yards...............27 TDs/24 INTS....6% of his passes were picked off through the FIRST 32 GAMES of his career...

 

Trent Edwards....61% comp..........5,498 yards.............24 tds/25 ints....3 % of his passes were picked off through the first 32 games of his career...why does he have one more pick and less of a pick percentage????...because he threw much more often than Losman did...because when Losman was starting we RAN THE DAMN FOOTBALL SO PLAY ACTION WOULD WORK...and THAT IS WHY HE HAD THE EXTRA 3 TDS...IMO

 

And Losman didn't have fifty five concussions like Edwards...we threw too often with Trent and we need that to change and now GAILEY is going to go run first...and TRENT IS GOING TO SHUT THESE BUFFALONIAN HATERS UP...and I can't wait!!!!! woohoo GO BILLS

[Celtic_soulja]

On top of the fact you saying I'm swinging from the guy's twig and berries when I ADAMENTLY stated that THE JURY IS STILL OUT AND I'M NOT READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GOT IN QB UNTIL GAMES 32-48....which if by next season Trent hasn't shown he can be a man in this league I would gladly say let him sit the bench...but until then...I'm not...

 

also, FYI I was saying the SAME THING about Losman...though I understood more because Edwards came in and was mister cool...and everyone was amazed with his cool calmness under pressure which he evidently lost after being sacked 100 times in 30 games...but I hope that he can find again

[Peevo]

I think the whole analysis is quite flawed unless you include the most important stat of all: wins.

 

per pro-football-reference.com. for some reason, NFL.com doesn't have win/loss record. I don't know why.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

14-16 career record. That's simply not good enough. Especially considering in 2009 the defense kept his team in a position to win the game in almost every Sunday. I would exclude the first Miami game. But still. You can show me stats till I'm blue in the face. He is NOT a winner.

 

In the words of Mike Singletary, "I want winners. Can't play wit 'em, can't coach wit 'em. Can't doooo it."

[PDaDdy]

Really?...33 TD's in the first 32 games????? are you sure...I got 27....and hmmmmm....4,423 yard through the first 32 games is what I got...what do you got and more importantly WHERE DID YOU GET IT???

 

JP Losman.......56% comp.............4,423 yards...............27 TDs/24 INTS....6% of his passes were picked off through the FIRST 32 GAMES of his career...

 

Trent Edwards....61% comp..........5,498 yards.............24 tds/25 ints....3 % of his passes were picked off through the first 32 games of his career...why does he have one more pick and less of a pick percentage????...because he threw much more often than Losman did...because when Losman was starting we RAN THE DAMN FOOTBALL SO PLAY ACTION WOULD WORK...and THAT IS WHY HE HAD THE EXTRA 3 TDS...IMO

 

And Losman didn't have fifty five concussions like Edwards...we threw too often with Trent and we need that to change and now GAILEY is going to go run first...and TRENT IS GOING TO SHUT THESE BUFFALONIAN HATERS UP...and I can't wait!!!!! woohoo GO BILLS

 

 

www.nfl.com.....and you are correct. He probably had more like 27 TDs which is still more than Edwards.

 

I don't know how you got your stats but Losman's career completion percentage is 59.2 which is 00.11% worse than Edwards career percentage of 61.3. SOOOO this means for their career the difference is statistically irrelevant AND if your stat of 56% through Losman's first 32 games is true that means he had one HELL of a completion percentage his last 11 because they raised his career to 59.2% This would mean that Losman finished his last 8 games with a MUCH higher completion percentage than Edwards.

 

Ever think of the flip side of the coin? Perhaps, as I believe, we were able to run the ball because the defense had to respect a QB with an actual big time NFL arm???? Since Edwards RARELY ever attempted a pass over 7 yards in the air defenses didn't have to defend the back 2/3s of the field.

 

Losman didn't have 55 concussions because he is not a fragile rag doll like Edwards.

 

Another stat that is worth putting out there is Edwards hasn't beaten a 3 - 4 defense in at least 2 years. Just in case you forgot that means Edwards hasn't beaten an AFC east opponent in at least 2 years.

 

Keep hitching your wagon to Edwards. He will continue to suck, likely even worse than Losman, for the rest of his career. Unfortunately you will have changed your forum name or stopped posting by the time that happens to prevent being ripped for being so wrong.

[grelit]

I will look forward to the day when we can have a conversation about a qualified NFL quarterback. Talking about the bums that we have currently on our roster is a waste of time. I agree with Jim Kelly.

[Celtic_soulja]

I think the whole analysis is quite flawed unless you include the most important stat of all: wins.

 

per pro-football-reference.com. for some reason, NFL.com doesn't have win/loss record. I don't know why.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

14-16 career record. That's simply not good enough. Especially considering in 2009 the defense kept his team in a position to win the game in almost every Sunday. I would exclude the first Miami game. But still. You can show me stats till I'm blue in the face. He is NOT a winner.

 

In the words of Mike Singletary, "I want winners. Can't play wit 'em, can't coach wit 'em. Can't doooo it."

 

UGH...are you serious????....our DEFENSE WAS LAST AGAINST THE RUN...WELL 30TH THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO LAST FOR ME...yes we caused turnovers that helped keep us in games...great...wonderful...but it didn't help that the offenses could methodically keep our offense on the side lines averaging 5 yards a carry...EVERYONE ran against us...c'mon...we ran the least amounts of plays of any offense because of that...and then threw the ball a million times a game...which I talked about why Losman threw the ball less and Edwards threw an extra pick and still had HALF of the interception percentage as Losman

 

And then you look at the win loss...if that's your end all stat then let me give them to you as well...grrrr...

 

Joe Montana...........18-14 (Sat one full season)

Tom Brady..............19-13 (sat for one full season)

Steve Young............13-19 (sat for the first eleven games rookie year then thrown in)

Phillip Rivers............22-10 (He unlike Steve Young Sat for two years before playing)

Drew Brees.............11-22 (sat for one full season)

 

Then Trent Edwards......14-18 (sat for 2 games his rookie year before being thrown in)

 

Still yielding a better win record than Drew Brees and Steve Young....and was thrown into action much earlier in his progression than any of they were...so lets not pretend Edwards sucks...if you were the GM you'd probably have traded all of these guys except Rivers because he's the only one that came out winning...the others after the first year were terrible...oh, and that's not true, because you wouldn't sit a QB two years on the bench like they did with Rivers...so you'd probably have ruined him to...

[thewildrabbit]

How soon we forget... J.P. Losmen was supposed to have a breakout year in 07 after finishing a strong end of 06. Lots of analysts predicted good things for the Bills in 07.

The problem was: the Bills changed offensive coordinators from a slightly experienced Steve Fairchild who worked under Mike Martz in St Louis as an OC but never actually called plays, Martz called them.

 

Then the Bills went from a coach who had some semblance of what he was doing to a complete tool in Turk Schonert. (BTW, where is turk now?)

Turk stunk it up and was fired and replaced by another inexperienced QB coach in Alex Van Pelt.

 

How on gods green earth can anyone correctly evaluate the QB play the last 3-4 years when they were coached by people who didn't know what they were doing.

 

What amazes me is that Jauron and his staff of clowns were paid millions as professionals, they should be arrested for stealing. If I'm Ralph Wilson I wouldn't pay any of them a dime after firing them all, and cite total incompetence.

[yungmack]

I think the whole analysis is quite flawed unless you include the most important stat of all: wins.

 

per pro-football-reference.com. for some reason, NFL.com doesn't have win/loss record. I don't know why.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxs...cgi?qb=EdwaTr01

 

14-16 career record. That's simply not good enough. Especially considering in 2009 the defense kept his team in a position to win the game in almost every Sunday. I would exclude the first Miami game. But still. You can show me stats till I'm blue in the face. He is NOT a winner.

 

In the words of Mike Singletary, "I want winners. Can't play wit 'em, can't coach wit 'em. Can't doooo it."

All stats in all sports can be misleading but most of all in football, which is really the ultimate team sport. A great hitter or pitcher in baseball can still have a solid statistical record on a losing team. Same for a good shooter in basketball. But no matter how good you are as a football player, you will have a very hard time living up to your potential if the players around you suck. That's why I don't necessarily put a lot of weight on the W-L record. For example, as much as I respect Peyton Manning, I think for raw talent, his father might have been even better. And his W-L record stinks. Because he had the misfortune to be stuck on a bad team in the days before free agency.

[icecold]

I vote NO on Captain checkdown

[Bart]

I know I know, just me...but hear me out first...

 

Okay, first...he's only started 32 games and is one of the most sacked QB's in the league because of our horrible O-Line...going first on statistics...has he been that bad?...

 

Trent Edwards: First 32 starts....61 comp %...........5498 yards....24 tds/25 ints.......3 percent of his passes are picked

 

Joe Montana: First 32 starts.....64 comp %............5456 yards...35 tds/22 ints.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Tom Brady: First 32 starts......63 comp %............6,613 yards.....46 tds/26 ints....4 percent of his passes were picked

(and yes Brady threw LESSSSS than Trent has in his first 32 starts making his int percentage a bit higher)

 

Steve Young: First 32 starts.....53 comp %.........4,467 yards.......24/24.......3 percent of his passes were picked

 

Phillip Rivers: First 32 starts.......58 comp %.......5,111 yards......33/18.......2 percent of his passes were picked

 

Drew Brees: First 32 starts........58 comp %.......5,612 yards......28/31.......5 percent of his passes were picked

 

 

Okay so they are pretty comparable numbers to some GREAT QB's...now I'm not suggesting that Trent is ANY OF THOSE...but what I'm suggesting is that we still haven't seen enough evidence to say he isn't either...

 

Outside of statistics...he has a fluid motion and is still young in the game....he has a decent arm and when given time can do some damage...his two concusions have him gun shy back there, but who can blame him?...now enter Chan's offense...run first presumably because we cannot draft a stud and there are none available unless we pry D Mac from philly...so a run first ball club will rarely throw it around to millions of different wide outs...one deep threat and TE's and Backs out of the backfield....that's Trent's staple isn't it?...he never got on the same page with T.O....and since he's gone....I don't think Trent will be pressured to throw it more than twenty times a game except on rare occasions...

 

He is the ultimate efficient QB...to a fault sometimes...but in a run first defensive team...isn't that what you want?...I think it would be a mistake to draft a QB high in THIS draft, and I think with a Run stuffing DT and a couple OT's...you have a whole new ball game where Trent is concerned...he's intelligent and just needs to get over being gun shy...which I think he can do...now, again...I am not saying he's pro bowl material, but I think he is capable...and I think that we do not have enough evidence to criticize him yet...not when his numbers are comparable...his win loss is comparable as well to some of them...and I think he can be much more effective with a better O-Line

 

Forget it. On the intangibles such as nerve and making mental adjustment under pressure, his is a failure. Some things can't be taught.

[Guest dog14787]

FIXED

 

 

My bad, TE's hand speed was clocked at 82 MPH and his reaction time was quicker than the fastest gunslinger in the world.

 

 

NFL QB (TE) vs. fastest known Gunslinger in the world

[Celtic_soulja]

How soon we forget... J.P. Losmen was supposed to have a breakout year in 07 after finishing a strong end of 06. Lots of analysts predicted good things for the Bills in 07.

The problem was: the Bills changed offensive coordinators from a slightly experienced Steve Fairchild who worked under Mike Martz in St Louis as an OC but never actually called plays, Martz called them.

 

Then the Bills went from a coach who had some semblance of what he was doing to a complete tool in Turk Schonert. (BTW, where is turk now?)

Turk stunk it up and was fired and replaced by another inexperienced QB coach in Alex Van Pelt.

 

How on gods green earth can anyone correctly evaluate the QB play the last 3-4 years when they were coached by people who didn't know what they were doing.

 

What amazes me is that Jauron and his staff of clowns were paid millions as professionals, they should be arrested for stealing. If I'm Ralph Wilson I wouldn't pay any of them a dime after firing them all, and cite total incompetence.

 

Thank you...WE CANNOT PROPERLY ASSESS WHAT WE HAVE...becuase the entire system was fouled up on top of no O Line to speak of...

[thewildrabbit]

Thank you...WE CANNOT PROPERLY ASSESS WHAT WE HAVE...becuase the entire system was fouled up on top of no O Line to speak of...

np.

 

The Bills QB's have been so handicapped by their surrounding cast the last few years you simply can't properly evaluate them by the tape.

 

Gailey will implement his offense and his playbook and see who gets it and who doesn't, and then start the guy who shows he can get the job done.

 

Hopefully the Bills correct the huge mistake they made last year by not addressing the LT position and replace Jason Peters with someone who can stay healthy and do the job at LT.

[Albany,n.y.]

Okay Okay...you have Big Ben from Pittsburgh to win it in his second year....other than him...NOBODY...THEY ALL HAVE WON WELL AFTER THIER THIRD YEARS IN THE NFL...so get off Trent's back...PLEASE...the kid hasn't had ample time to prove anything one way or the other...he hasn't solidyfied he's a franchise QB...

 

BUT NEITHER HAS HE PROVED HE IS NOT...

Tom Brady-2nd year in league, 1st year playing-Super Bowl Champion

When did Brady = NOBODY?

[Celtic_soulja]

Tom Brady-2nd year in league, 1st year playing-Super Bowl Champion

When did Brady = NOBODY?

 

Okay even still Brady and Ben...then you have Brees...been around awhile...Manning...both of them....then you have Brad Johnson...ancient by the time he won....Dilfer...don't even think he counts of as a QB....Warner....older....Elway...long over due....Favre...older....Aikman...older....Hostetler...another dude that barely counts as a QB but older....so in twenty years you show me TWO???? WHOOOPPIEEEEEE....I got another 18 SB's that have guys third year or older...hmmmm...

 

Yeah Edwards isn't Brady....wowzers...there have been many NON-Brady winners in NFL history...or did we just not play SB's before him????...c'mon..

[Hanoverbills]

How soon we forget... J.P. Losmen was supposed to have a breakout year in 07 after finishing a strong end of 06. Lots of analysts predicted good things for the Bills in 07.

The problem was: the Bills changed offensive coordinators from a slightly experienced Steve Fairchild who worked under Mike Martz in St Louis as an OC but never actually called plays, Martz called them.

 

Then the Bills went from a coach who had some semblance of what he was doing to a complete tool in Turk Schonert. (BTW, where is turk now?)

Turk stunk it up and was fired and replaced by another inexperienced QB coach in Alex Van Pelt.

 

How on gods green earth can anyone correctly evaluate the QB play the last 3-4 years when they were coached by people who didn't know what they were doing.

 

What amazes me is that Jauron and his staff of clowns were paid millions as professionals, they should be arrested for stealing. If I'm Ralph Wilson I wouldn't pay any of them a dime after firing them all, and cite total incompetence.

The final nine games of 2006 Losman had a 5.6 T.D. percentage ,ranked second in the NFL. We finish 5 and 4 in the final 9 games after starting 2 and 5. Those final nine games ,the teams we played againts had a combine 85 W and 59 L. We only played two teams with a below 500% record that final nine games. The following year he looses his job after two games.

[BillsfaninFl]

If TE played behind an O-line say like the Colts over the last three seasons do you honestly think we would even be having this discussion?

 

I agree. If Jim Kelly joined the Bills in any of the last ten years, he would not have had a hall of fame career.

[K-9]

How soon we forget... J.P. Losmen was supposed to have a breakout year in 07 after finishing a strong end of 06. Lots of analysts predicted good things for the Bills in 07.

 

The problem was:[/b] the Bills changed offensive coordinators from a slightly experienced Steve Fairchild who worked under Mike Martz in St Louis as an OC but never actually called plays, Martz called them...

 

Sorry, Rabbit but Fairchild was still the OC in '07.

 

Everyone was psyched to see JP continue his breakout after '06 but I had my reservations because after he and Evans burned Houston on consecutive 83 yard TD bombs, DCs made it their mission that Evans would see very little single coverage from that point on. JP and Lee did little damage with the long ball after that game.

 

People have posted here numerous times saying that we changed our O in '07 but we didn't. JP just didn't have a clue about taking what defenses were giving him. He certainly knew, as did Fairchild, what they WEREN'T giving him but he couldn't make the adjustments. Why would an OC, coming off a promising '06 season with what everyone thought was a JP that had turned the corner in his development, DELIBERATELY change anything to hinder his further development? He wouldn't, Fairchild didn't but JP couldn't make adjustments. That's the main reason they kept Edwards in that year. He simply made more positive plays when his first option wasn't there. He was always better at going through his progressions than JP was. Yeah, it's frustrating to see all the checkdowns but GENERALLY positive plays are better than non-positive plays.

 

GO BILLS!!!