Chef Jim Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Both are obviously bad... the faceless bureaucrat who says you can't have the medicine and the drug company that keeps raising the prices so that you can't afford them. It would equally suck if you were busting your butt trying to get your family the best medicine to find out that you just can't afford it no matter what. You know there was this really cool mult-level condo in San Francisco with incredible views and ammenities. Bastards kept raising the price on that too. Now I'm renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Which is worse being denied cancer drugs on the National Health Care system or being denied drugs because you can't afford them? If it's the same thing, why do we need to waste trillions of dollars to get to the same result? Just to make idiots feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 All it takes is one catastrophic illness. Let's hope karma doesn't decide to make you an example. PTR If I get a catastrophic illness and I can't afford treatment, I die. That's not karmic retribution. That's just reality. I'm not entitled to have an illness treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 If I get a catastrophic illness and I can't afford treatment, I die. That's not karmic retribution. That's just reality. I'm not entitled to have an illness treated. Come on, I remember specifically the part that Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, etc... said doctors must provide healthcare for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 If I get a catastrophic illness and I can't afford treatment, I die. I'm not entitled to have it treated. I guess we agree to disagree. No. You would have a right to have it treated. The 9th Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." ^^Health care is one of them.^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Come on, I remember specifically the part that Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, etc... said doctors must provide healthcare for all. That is why there is a 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Is this the new idiot mantra? the 9th, they wanted healthcare that is why the 9th,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Is this the new idiot mantra? the 9th, they wanted healthcare that is why the 9th,. Is this the best you got? Dispute it please. No. I took from your post above you are claiming only the specific rights laid out are the ones we should have. When in fact, the founders realized idiots like you would do that... So they made the 9th. Read it again: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." It seems pretty straightforward that even our founders (like ones you quoted) realized that we have more rights than is enumerated in the Bill of Rights. So what it be thy? Pick and choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I guess we agree to disagree. No. You would have a right to have it treated. The 9th Amendment: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." ^^Health care is one of them.^^ "Health care" is not a right. There is no right, anywhere, that says a doctor will wipe your sniffles if you need it. The only right you have is to the opportunity to purchase the service if you can so afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 "Health care" is not a right. There is no right, anywhere, that says a doctor will wipe your sniffles if you need it. The only right you have is to the opportunity to purchase the service if you can so afford it. There you go, whipping out your Alaska Darin Right Wing Extremist Talking Points notebook again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 There you go, whipping out your Alaska Darin Right Wing Extremist Talking Points notebook again. It was easier than trying to cure EII's completely bull **** interpretation of the 9th Amendment (which I'm pretty sure - but not positive - he was kidding with anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 It was easier than trying to cure EII's completely bull **** interpretation of the 9th Amendment (which I'm pretty sure - but not positive - he was kidding with anyway). We do have other rights than the ones enumerated in the Bill of rights... Right? Yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 We do have other rights than the ones enumerated in the Bill of rights... Right? Yes or no? Yes...and the entire basis of the founding of our government was that the government does not provide rights to the people. Government exists at our forebearance, not vice-versa. Even if health care were a right, the 9th Amendment does not therefore imply that the government must provide health care, merely that it can't restrict it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 That is why there is a 9th. Number 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I prefer Number 8Number 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I prefer Number 8 That's no surprise, you're a cruel and unusual kind of guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Except that one's a fact of life - you can't always get what you want, and everyone dies sometime. The other's a fact of government - sorry, we can't provide what we promised you. ....but since we believe in government control of everything anyway, we might as well go ahead and begin a gradual process of nationalizing health care, since Big Insurance is the same as Big Government anyway. If it's the same thing, why do we need to waste trillions of dollars to get to the same result? Just to make idiots feel better? Yes. Literally. Yes. Oh, and don't forget, we will "create" even more government jobs this way. Didn't you see the recent VA commercials? They're hiring. Hell, if we keep this up we'll really take a bite out of unemployment! We'll just keep hiring more and more government workers! Then we'll tax all the rich people at 70%, and corporations at 90%, so we can pay our new employees....this is a perfect plan, and it's gonna work out great! Just wait until phase 2, when we can finally start imposing the wage and price controls!! Now we will finally get back to what we were trying to do before we were so rudely interrupted in 1979. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Which is worse being denied cancer drugs on the National Health Care system or being denied drugs because you can't afford them? Funny that with all the cancer patients being denied treatment, the US is the top nation in the world for cancer survival rates, while nationalized health care nations like GBR lag behind. There must be a lot of spontaneous remissions in the US! Link?My father in Canada, who has had 3 open heart surgeries and was 72years at the time, had to wait 3 months for an appointment with a cardiologist the last time. He could have died in the interim. This really happened cause I was part of it. Not some anecdotal fantasy. Maybe Boehner or some other Senator can bring him up in his next speech. "Like the example of Dante's father, who lives in Canada and needed heart bypass surgery, but had to wait 3 tenuous months before he could see..." I wonder why Obama didn't allow the reimportation of drugs in his Health Reform Bill? hmmmm Why wouldn't he want more competition from foreign drug makers that have many drugs that are as much as 50% cheaper than what we have here? And I wonder why he didn't criticize the pharmaceutical industry for their profits, considering that the average profit margins for this industry is 18.3%, but yet somehow the EVIL insurance industries have been demonized with their monstrous 3.3% profit margins? Wierd, I just don't get it. Gee, why did the AMA, over the objections of the majority of doctors who they purport to represent, endorse Barry's plan? Couldn't have anything to do with the $290M monopoly they (and by "they" I mean the non-MD executives running the AMA now) have on CPT codes, and Barry threatening to take it away from them, could it? Or how about the AARP agreeing to a bill that cuts $500B from Medicare, which will either come from reduced benefts or doctors' reimbursements, leading to fewer doctors taking Medicare patients? It couldn't be that Barry threatened to take away their Medigap policies, could it? We do have other rights than the ones enumerated in the Bill of rights... Right? Yes or no? Food, clothing, and shelter are therefore also rights, and at the front of the line because they can kill you quicker if you lack them. When do those get nationalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Funny that with all the cancer patients being denied treatment, the US is the top nation in the world for cancer survival rates, while nationalized health care nations like GBR lag behind. There must be a lot of spontaneous remissions in the US! Maybe Boehner or some other Senator can bring him up in his next speech. "Like the example of Dante's father, who lives in Canada and needed heart bypass surgery, but had to wait 3 tenuous months before he could see..." Gee, why did the AMA, over the objections of the majority of doctors who they purport to represent, endorse Barry's plan? Couldn't have anything to do with the $290M monopoly they (and by "they" I mean the non-MD executives running the AMA now) have on CPT codes, and Barry threatening to take it away from them, could it? Or how about the AARP agreeing to a bill that cuts $500B from Medicare, which will either come from reduced benefts or doctors' reimbursements, leading to fewer doctors taking Medicare patients? It couldn't be that Barry threatened to take away their Medigap policies, could it? Food, clothing, and shelter are therefore also rights, and at the front of the line because they can kill you quicker if you lack them. When do those get nationalized? As I mentioned over the weekend, the most disturbing part of this entire plan is NOT that it is so blatantly bad on varying different levels that you'd need to be a blind idiot to think it's a good idea, but rather that you now only need 277 blind idiots to make it law. Gonna get ugly when this thing passes this week. Very, very ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Funny that with all the cancer patients being denied treatment, the US is the top nation in the world for cancer survival rates, while nationalized health care nations like GBR lag behind. There must be a lot of spontaneous remissions in the US! Dammit! I don't like how this post is starting out, you know, providing a proper comparative analysis based on quantifiable data...instead of more lame anecdotes. Maybe Boehner or some other Senator can bring him up in his next speech. "Like the example of Dante's father, who lives in Canada and needed heart bypass surgery, but had to wait 3 tenuous months before he could see..." Ahh, see, there it is I don't know though, not sure if that trumps Jackass Slaughter's Denture Story. Tell me that wasn't a giant embarrassment to us, again. WTF is that lady doing as a Congressman? Especially from Upstate NY? I would expect folksie stories from somewhere down south. Gee, why did the AMA, over the objections of the majority of doctors who they purport to represent, endorse Barry's plan? Couldn't have anything to do with the $290M monopoly they (and by "they" I mean the non-MD executives running the AMA now) have on CPT codes, and Barry threatening to take it away from them, could it? Bingo, Bango! Where the f is the media on that? Why isn't that an open standard? Or how about the AARP agreeing to a bill that cuts $500B from Medicare, which will either come from reduced benefts or doctors' reimbursements, leading to fewer doctors taking Medicare patients? It couldn't be that Barry threatened to take away their Medigap policies, could it? Again, spot on. Besides, the AARP departed from its original mission years ago. For all intents and purposes, it is a labor union now, out to get whatever it can, so it can keep getting dues. Food, clothing, and shelter are therefore also rights, and at the front of the line because they can kill you quicker if you lack them. When do those get nationalized? While we are on it....screw the non-stated rights...the right to bear arms is specifically stated in the Constitution. So, where the f is my government issued MP5(they are fun!)? Also, I have a right to free press, so, since I regularly participate in the New Media, where the f is my new laptop? Hey I have a right to these things, so, that means the government is supposed to provide them, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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