Mr. WEO Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 That was dumb as hell. We are building through the DRAFT period. If you and others can't get that, or don't like it, maybe its time to find a new team? Nix has already said he is not going to sign bigtime 'Name' players and I agree with him, they are not worth it. If some mid tier guys want to be here fine, if not fine. It is time to rebuld through the DRAFT and resign and keep our own. The Bills have been bad for ten years, so they have been in a position to "build through the DRAFT" for ten straight years. Why, then are we now starting to rebuild? Have all the different GMs been that much worse than the mythical Buddy Nix? How, exactly, is this simple plan going to work this time?
BYGD1 Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 That was dumb as hell. We are building through the DRAFT period. If you and others can't get that, or don't like it, maybe its time to find a new team? Nix has already said he is not going to sign bigtime 'Name' players and I agree with him, they are not worth it. If some mid tier guys want to be here fine, if not fine. It is time to rebuld through the DRAFT and resign and keep our own. Voices of Sanity, what fresh thread, I am so sick of the Sky is Falling Chicken Little mentality, Support the Bills or Take a hike, just do not jump back on when good time reemerge in 3 years.. Oh yeah for all you that cant stomach this philosphy, BITE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 The Bills have been bad for ten years, so they have been in a position to "build through the DRAFT" for ten straight years. Why, then are we now starting to rebuild? Have all the different GMs been that much worse than the mythical Buddy Nix? How, exactly, is this simple plan going to work this time? The below quote is from another thread, WEO, but here hopefully is your answer. The Bills must: a) draft better than they did with Donahoe/Levy/Brandon...and I think that they will...it shouldn't be that difficult considering the past track record. b) retain their good players whom they drafted (as Nix emphasized in his presser). In other words, not shuffling the cards and drafting players to replace those who left via free agency. In other words, as the saying goes, "your best free agents are your own free agents." By still having to fill this critical line position it has even had a negative affect on our defense because our first draft pick this year could have been used for an impact defensive player. It goes to show you how one personnel miscalculation can have a mulitplier affect on a team. The major problem with the Bills is that they don't add talent as much as they replace talent. It' like being on a treadmill with a lot of motion without getting anywhere.
BillsVet Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 1) And you think shooting fish in a barrel is BAD? Seriously? 2) The offensive line IS NOT FILLER on winning teams. 3) Yeah, we have made some extraordinarily bad picks over the last few years. But not because we had a bad philosophy (except for the Whitner pick). It's mostly just missing, having targeted a guy and not done a good enough job of figuring out if he will be good. And it also may have had a lot to do with our coaches not doing a good job of developing the players (Losman, particularly). Every team has finite resources in a given off-season. If a team needs a fullback, kicker, punter, or long snapper, they'll not use a first day pick on them. Even RB's are sliding out of the first round given their high probability of injury and short shelf-life. It's called economy of force in military terms, or rather, not using more resources than are absolutely necessary to accomplish a task. Positions like G and C are a step up for the positions I just mentioned. With good scouting, a team can find those players in the mid rounds, thus keeping their top picks for positions like QB, DE, OT, DT that aren't typically found outside rounds 1 or 2. Now, there are exceptions, but when you're rebuilding, using high picks on interior OL isn't getting the most bang for your buck.
Mr. WEO Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 The below quote is from another thread, WEO, but here hopefully is your answer. The Bills must: a) draft better than they did with Donahoe/Levy/Brandon...and I think that they will...it shouldn't be that difficult considering the past track record. b) retain their good players whom they drafted (as Nix emphasized in his presser). In other words, not shuffling the cards and drafting players to replace those who left via free agency. In other words, as the saying goes, "your best free agents are your own free agents." So we just happened to have three GMs in a row who struggled to build the team through the draft? And now we have one? It's just not that easy. We've had some decent draft picks through the years but every team has to share the bad picks.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 So we just happened to have three GMs in a row who struggled to build the team through the draft? And now we have one? It's just not that easy. We've had some decent draft picks through the years but every team has to share the bad picks. But don't you think that in view of the poor drafting and retention history of the last ten years, that it's very likely that Nix/Whaley will do a better job of drafting and retaining players? I personally can't see how they could do worse...especially as both Nix and Whaley have stellar reputations as talent evaluators. Maybe I'm being optimistic. But I think I'm being realistic.
BADOLBILZ Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 I agree with your premise, but don't paint with too wide a brush. Shooting fish in a barrel? Easy to find a free satety? Nelson showed little? That's just not accurate. . Last year's draft (save Maybin and he still may show something) was damn good and is indeed something we can build on. Drafting takes smarts, patience, work, investigtion and guts. A little luck helps. Buddy's shown all of that in his track record. If you go back year by year this decade, the Bills usually get fair grades for their drafts by midseason because of a high number of starting players. Starting for a bad team means very little. Two years ago people were lauding the Bills for the Lynch/Poz/Edwards draft. It's not uncommon either. Whitner even received good grades for performing adequately as a SS as a rookie. If you go back and look at the Levy-Brandon Bills draft grades one season in, they get passing grades. The body of work, however, is an F. Two years down the line people stop worrying about your position on the depth chart and start evaluating what kind of difference you are making relative to where you were drafted. When it happens year after year, you can paint it with that wide brush. I stand by what I said. I saw nothing from any of those players last season to think they will be anything more than potentially "good" players. Wood and Levitre are not the next Alan Faneca. Good starters? Hopefully. Nelson did, in fact, show little. I know the bar is set very low for TE play in Buffalo, but he spent a good portion of the season on the bench with chronic headaches and did little else. When you draft easy to evaluate positions like RB/OG/MLB/FS in the early rounds you had better nail those picks and THEN find some gems at more important positions later. The Bills generally do not.
spartacus Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 The Bills have been bad for ten years, so they have been in a position to "build through the DRAFT" for ten straight years. Why, then are we now starting to rebuild? Have all the different GMs been that much worse than the mythical Buddy Nix? How, exactly, is this simple plan going to work this time? Because we also have the mythical Modrak and his legion of shrinking scouts (now 6) who will find the can't miss prospects in the college ranks (like they have been doing for the last decade). the simpleton answer is that Dick is gone and everyone knows he made all of the bad picks and trades
spartacus Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 If you go back year by year this decade, the Bills usually get fair grades for their drafts by midseason because of a high number of starting players. Starting for a bad team means very little. Two years ago people were lauding the Bills for the Lynch/Poz/Edwards draft. It's not uncommon either. Whitner even received good grades for performing adequately as a SS as a rookie. If you go back and look at the Levy-Brandon Bills draft grades one season in, they get passing grades. The body of work, however, is an F. Two years down the line people stop worrying about your position on the depth chart and start evaluating what kind of difference you are making relative to where you were drafted. When it happens year after year, you can paint it with that wide brush. I stand by what I said. I saw nothing from any of those players last season to think they will be anything more than potentially "good" players. Wood and Levitre are not the next Alan Faneca. Good starters? Hopefully. Nelson did, in fact, show little. I know the bar is set very low for TE play in Buffalo, but he spent a good portion of the season on the bench with chronic headaches and did little else. When you draft easy to evaluate positions like RB/OG/MLB/FS in the early rounds you had better nail those picks and THEN find some gems at more important positions later. The Bills generally do not. you are correct The Bills have been horrible at identifying impact playmakers with their premium picks. and they have done even worse for the amount of money they have spent in free agency. $3 mil / yr for Cornell Green - who only looks good because Bell is his competition. A big part of this problem is because they have short changed the scouting and talent evaluation process. A strategy which employs 6 scouts and allows Modrak and Nix to work part time from home in distant states produces the piss-poor results of the last decade of drafting. and not much has changed from last year regarding the draft. The same scouts are still here and Modrak and Nix are still running the show. Only the Pro personnel guy has changed. can't understand the firm conviction that all holes will be fixed by this front office in any draft or free agent period.
tonyjustbcuz Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 you are correct The Bills have been horrible at identifying impact playmakers with their premium picks. and they have done even worse for the amount of money they have spent in free agency. $3 mil / yr for Cornell Green - who only looks good because Bell is his competition. A big part of this problem is because they have short changed the scouting and talent evaluation process. A strategy which employs 6 scouts and allows Modrak and Nix to work part time from home in distant states produces the piss-poor results of the last decade of drafting. and not much has changed from last year regarding the draft. The same scouts are still here and Modrak and Nix are still running the show. Only the Pro personnel guy has changed. can't understand the firm conviction that all holes will be fixed by this front office in any draft or free agent period. I agree with alot of what you are saying! I did not like the C. Green signing at all, the spent a chunk of change on a player that has been with 5 teams in 10 years and just hasn'g panned out yet and may never will ! Buddy Nix mentioned getting a few stop gap players in FA and that is exactly what he may be...just someone to plug into a hole with a degraded amount of talent at the position. I believe the scouting dept. is short sighted, lackluster and like you mentioned short changed. I am not crazy with Modrak at all, but after doing some reading their is a tight relationship that exists among D. Whaley, and Modrak which means Modrak will stay! Honestly, After doing much research last year on the College class (well every year)...I set-up my little war room, make charts, graphs, lists of best available athlete, color code players with medical history, character problems & legal history, and the like and make my projections and plan b, c, d as well in case my projected player is already selected by another team. What I realized is that although imperfect a lot of the sporting magazines like Pro Football Weekly, Athlon, Sporting News etc....generally come close in grading players, their pros, cons, weaknesses etc...and if you go on FFTOOLBOX.COM you can access so much free information on players, mock drafts etc...I watch video of many of the players as well....The one thing I know (at least in my case).. Knowledge of the many players takes time! Your priorities have to be right in analyzing talent, and realize that athleticism is important, but so is football smarts, work ethic, film study, general intelligence, and the moral fiber of the player among many other things like if the Father was a NFL Player or coach or a close relative. That is one of the things that made me want to see us draft Clay Matthews which was within our reach last year if we desired. As far as the first round pick last year I desperately wanted Bryan Orakapo hands down and he was right there for us and amazingly dropped in our laps. He was also the best available DE in the draft in almost every draft experts evaluation including! Aaron Maybe Maybin was about the 4th rated DE player projected in the draft and one of the key notations was that it was very slender and very underweight for the postion at the NFL level. I know that Lavar Arrignton who played with the Redskins was a friend and mentor to him and that he came from the same college as Poluzinjury, but still affiliation alone wasn't a reason to select him as our top pick! I believe Buddy Nix came into the organization after the draft last year as a scout, and I may or may not be right about that, but he was fairly new and a scout for just the southeast region of the Country. I am sure he had input in that postion, but not the kind of input that he now has. I am hoping that he "really" was a key ingredient and had a major input in the decision making process when he was involved in S.Diego's Draft. San Diego had superior drafts for many years and the upside with Nix is that many credit him with being a major contributor. We also have the good fortune as it seems with hiring D. Whaley into our organization. I am hoping with all these supposed talented individuals and the knowledge that they bring of the NFL That they can get the job done over the course of the next several years. We'll see, but I tell you if you give me the internet, 4 NFL Draft magazines, a coffee pot, a package of multi-purpose paper and a few pins I would give you a more competent draft than this organization has and probably will for the forseeable future!!! The only pick I did project for us that the Bills were wise enough to make was the pick for Jairus Byrd! So yeah for that, but based on all the data so far, and lacking the draft which is important, and the rest of FA I See the Bills taking two steps back initially and a 5-11 record for the upcoming season. If we have a good draft look for an improvement to maybe 8-8 or so the following year (If there is not a lock-out). That third season could be the beginning of something special 10-6/11-5 if the Bills have great drafts over the next 2+ drafts and retain key FA's which they haven't done in much of in the past....Go Bills
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