DanInUticaTampa Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 People get mad when we look at players from bad teams, and then they get mad when we look at players from good teams. what the hell
Rockinon Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think you guys don't really understand what is going on here. Switching to the 3-4 not only means that our DEs from last year become OLBs, it also means that last years DTs become DEs. This means both Stroud and Williams will be DEs. And if you guys think Stroud can rush from the outside, wait till you see what Williams can do. The guy has repeatedly been described as a wrecking ball on the offensive line. As for a guy as big as Kennedy, he would be a Nose Tackle for sure. The advantages that both Stroud andKyle Williams will have is power. Both have speed too but what you will see is one extremely powerful bull rush. Any offensive tackle in the league is going to have their hands full with these guys.
box0life Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think you guys don't really understand what is going on here. Switching to the 3-4 not only means that our DEs from last year become OLBs, it also means that last years DTs become DEs. This means both Stroud and Williams will be DEs. And if you guys think Stroud can rush from the outside, wait till you see what Williams can do. The guy has repeatedly been described as a wrecking ball on the offensive line. As for a guy as big as Kennedy, he would be a Nose Tackle for sure. The advantages that both Stroud andKyle Williams will have is power. Both have speed too but what you will see is one extremely powerful bull rush. Any offensive tackle in the league is going to have their hands full with these guys. If they are going to be such great DE's then why didn't they play defensive end ever in their careers. You would think that if they were great pass rushers, they would have already been defensive ends from the start.
manbeast Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 If they are going to be such great DE's then why didn't they play defensive end ever in their careers. You would think that if they were great pass rushers, they would have already been defensive ends from the start. Maybe because they never played in a 3-4. I wonder how this board would score on the wonderlic.
Adam Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think you guys don't really understand what is going on here. Switching to the 3-4 not only means that our DEs from last year become OLBs, it also means that last years DTs become DEs. This means both Stroud and Williams will be DEs. And if you guys think Stroud can rush from the outside, wait till you see what Williams can do. The guy has repeatedly been described as a wrecking ball on the offensive line. As for a guy as big as Kennedy, he would be a Nose Tackle for sure. The advantages that both Stroud andKyle Williams will have is power. Both have speed too but what you will see is one extremely powerful bull rush. Any offensive tackle in the league is going to have their hands full with these guys. The better ones won't have much to worry about. Our defense is transitioning and won't be very good this year. Sure, they will have their moments and maybe even good games, but they won't be very good- and I'm ok with that. As long as we draft well, we will get better. Its not about winning right now. We won't win now, we will draft well. The team is not moving and won't be contracted. The building of a winner starts in April
bkc Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 The better ones won't have much to worry about. Our defense is transitioning and won't be very good this year. Sure, they will have their moments and maybe even good games, but they won't be very good- and I'm ok with that. As long as we draft well, we will get better. Its not about winning right now. We won't win now, we will draft well. The team is not moving and won't be contracted. The building of a winner starts in April you said it
JStranger76 Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I don't know about this Williams at DE stuff. Two years back when we played Seattle in the opener Williams lined up on the outside quite a few times that game so we could stunt Schobel up the middle. It was painful to watch. Granted, KW was going against Walter Jones on those matchups, but it looked like he didn't even try to get any pressure. I would just rotate Williams with someone at the nose and line him back up at DT when we show 4-3 looks. Playing him at DE is not a good idea IMO.......
Adam Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I don't know about this Williams at DE stuff. Two years back when we played Seattle in the opener Williams lined up on the outside quite a few times that game so we could stunt Schobel up the middle. It was painful to watch. Granted, KW was going against Walter Jones on those matchups, but it looked like he didn't even try to get any pressure. I would just rotate Williams with someone at the nose and line him back up at DT when we show 4-3 looks. Playing him at DE is not a good idea IMO....... You have to line up 11 people and there is no way around that. We might not get pressure. We might struggle with the run. A big problem is that you have to go with what you have, and nobody will feel sorry for you if it isn't good enough. Our line was smallish for the defense we have been playing- now they are really undersized. I can definitely see us trading up from our second round slot to get Terrence Cody, because he won't last until our second pick.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 People get mad when we look at players from bad teams, and then they get mad when we look at players from good teams. what the hell I think of it like a game of whack-a-mole. No matter what happens or how quickly you whack them, there's going to be another one popping up.
Simon Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I don't know about this Williams at DE stuff. Two years back when we played Seattle in the opener Williams lined up on the outside quite a few times that game so we could stunt Schobel up the middle. It was painful to watch. Granted, KW was going against Walter Jones on those matchups, but it looked like he didn't even try to get any pressure. I would just rotate Williams with someone at the nose and line him back up at DT when we show 4-3 looks. Playing him at DE is not a good idea IMO....... Williams has earned the right to start in the base defense. No questions asked.
rstencel Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Williams has earned the right to start in the base defense.No questions asked. No way Williams starts in 3-4, at least if play traditional 3-4. He is way too slow to move to end, and isn't going to force double teams, or be able to protect the ILB if plays NT. At best he gets 20-30 snaps a game as pass rusher/rotational player. I hate to see him hit the bench, but he just doesn't fit this type of defense.
rstencel Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think you guys don't really understand what is going on here. Switching to the 3-4 not only means that our DEs from last year become OLBs, it also means that last years DTs become DEs. This means both Stroud and Williams will be DEs. And if you guys think Stroud can rush from the outside, wait till you see what Williams can do. The guy has repeatedly been described as a wrecking ball on the offensive line. As for a guy as big as Kennedy, he would be a Nose Tackle for sure. The advantages that both Stroud andKyle Williams will have is power. Both have speed too but what you will see is one extremely powerful bull rush. Any offensive tackle in the league is going to have their hands full with these guys. Agree that Stroud moves to DE, but doubt Willaims does. Most likely Stroud, Spencer Johnson, and John McCargo move outside, with Stroud and Johnson being starters unless they draft/sign someone better.
Simon Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 No way Williams starts in 3-4, at least if play traditional 3-4. He is way too slow to move to end, and isn't going to force double teams, or be able to protect the ILB if plays NT. At best he gets 20-30 snaps a game as pass rusher/rotational player. I hate to see him hit the bench, but he just doesn't fit this type of defense. Slow is not an adjective I'd use to describe him. On a track maybe. But in pads on gameday, that boy is quick.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Williams is everything a good NT should be, except his size.
Thurman#1 Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 That's just too bad! All the money these guys make they should jump if they are told to jump and play NT if they are asked to play NT. They all think it's about them, and unfortunately the team loses out in the end, which means everyone loses. Some teams realize this like N.England, Indy, Pittsburgh. Indy players were hurt about not playing starters their final 2 games of the year that could have given them a perfect season. Instead, the players generally kept their mouths shut, and did as instructed. Even though they didn't like it they knew their coach believed this would give them a better opportunity to go to the Superbowl! They may have lossed the S.Bowl but they believed in working towards their ultimate goal as a team and it almost played out that way! Indy has some marginal players in some position, and some marquee players as well like Manning, but they are a great team! They are committed to the team and are willing to make sacrifices, unlike Stroud, Unlike Lynch and unlike several players in the Bills organization. Until the mentality of this team is upgraded along with their talent level this team is a sub .500 team. I aniticpate that this team will suffer dramatically this year with the 3-4 shift and I don't expect more than 5 wins. The following year maybe back to 6 or 7 wins. It will be a crucial third year where the Bills with spectacular drafting and personnel moves has the potential to be a 9-11 win team ifthe pieces fall into place, and this team begins to play unselfishly as a team for a change. Players like Lynch, Parrish, Whitner, Edwards, will be long gone and a distint memory by then. You remember those names and in three years they won't be there...maybe as soon as this year on all accounts, but I doubt it. This team is a major rebuilding project despite Buddy Nix saying that they are not really all that far away! They couldn't be further!! Stroud will be long gone by then as well anyways! It's not about unselfishness. Langston Walker unselfishly agreed to the switch to LT last year, but he was 90% sure it was a stupid move, and sure enough, that move ended up causing him to lose his job. Stroud is our best D lineman, he constantly gets double-teamed as it is, but he's a small guy for a DT. He plays the 3 - hole right now, and even though he's a fraction big for a 3 - technique, he plays the position well because he's faster than most at his size and he's also stronger than you'd expect. But moving Stroud to NT would be a great deal like moving Walker to LT was, he's not built for the position, and he won't play it particularly well for that reason. Stroud would wear down. Kennedy is significantly bigger, he's bigger than his listed weight, and even Kennedy isn't really big enough for a NT. One of the article about Kennedy on TBD notes that he played well last year but was mostly used on passing downs. Even the significantly bigger Kennedy isn't really big enough to play NT on run downs, and Stroud much less so.
rstencel Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Williams is everything a good NT should be, except his size. play one gap yes, but a two gap scheme he gets owned, and doesn't need to be double teamed. Most 3-4 defenses have the linemen play 2 gap, and require the NT to have to demand double teams to keep the LB's free to make the tackles. Stroud was the DT that was getting double teamed, not Williams. I agree Williams is too good to be on bench, but if play 3-4, don't see how he gets on the field more than 20-30 plays a game, if we are going to have any success at all stopping the run.
NewEra Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think we we brought him in hear just to make us think they're doing something. They probably offered him 2 mill a year, he laughed and left. If he leaves, I don't like our chances.
BillnutinHouston Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 Everyone seems to be locked onto the 3-4 direction, but most seem to have missed the nuance in Edwards' and Gailey's comments about their plans for the 2010 defense. At the end of the day, George Edwards is going to run more 4-3 than many think. If you go back and read his and Gailey's comments, they both stated they intend to use the talents of what they have. So while I think they are looking to get 4-3 players in here, they are conceding that completely turning over the defensive roster in one offseason is tough to do so they will go with a hybrid this year.
Thoner7 Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 I think you guys don't really understand what is going on here. Switching to the 3-4 not only means that our DEs from last year become OLBs, it also means that last years DTs become DEs. This means both Stroud and Williams will be DEs. And if you guys think Stroud can rush from the outside, wait till you see what Williams can do. The guy has repeatedly been described as a wrecking ball on the offensive line. As for a guy as big as Kennedy, he would be a Nose Tackle for sure. The advantages that both Stroud andKyle Williams will have is power. Both have speed too but what you will see is one extremely powerful bull rush. Any offensive tackle in the league is going to have their hands full with these guys. A very basic and accurate view of the 3-4. Stroud and Williams can easily play 5 tech. Hell Williams has been playing that role for his entire career, he will essentially be moved 1 yard towards the sideline in the 3-4. Williams is a prototype 2 gapper 5 tech. If they are going to be such great DE's then why didn't they play defensive end ever in their careers. You would think that if they were great pass rushers, they would have already been defensive ends from the start. learn football Maybe because they never played in a 3-4. I wonder how this board would score on the wonderlic. No way Williams starts in 3-4, at least if play traditional 3-4. He is way too slow to move to end, and isn't going to force double teams, or be able to protect the ILB if plays NT. At best he gets 20-30 snaps a game as pass rusher/rotational player. I hate to see him hit the bench, but he just doesn't fit this type of defense. Agree that Stroud moves to DE, but doubt Willaims does. Most likely Stroud, Spencer Johnson, and John McCargo move outside, with Stroud and Johnson being starters unless they draft/sign someone better. learn football, then comment play one gap yes, but a two gap scheme he gets owned, and doesn't need to be double teamed. Most 3-4 defenses have the linemen play 2 gap, and require the NT to have to demand double teams to keep the LB's free to make the tackles. Stroud was the DT that was getting double teamed, not Williams. I agree Williams is too good to be on bench, but if play 3-4, don't see how he gets on the field more than 20-30 plays a game, if we are going to have any success at all stopping the run. Not true. Go back and watch the games from last year, Williams got the double teams more than Stroud and Schobel combined. There is a a reason the NFL coaches voted him in as a PB alternate (not the fans or media but the best football coaches on the planet)
Recommended Posts