Albany,n.y. Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Now look at the Baltimore Ravens drafts since 2000 and realize they were drafting behind us most of the time:, some misses, after Oher it was weak this year but some pretty good hits, and a bunch of starters, shown in bold (from depth chart 1/10/10 playoff game). Their last 9 1st picks all started this season. The 10th, 2000 pick Jamal Lewis started for them when they won the Super Bowl & just retired after finishing his career with Cleveland. Also 1996 1st rounder Ray Lewis still starts. 18 of their 24 starters (K & P included) are draft choices. 2009: 1) Michael Oher OT 2) Paul Kruger LB 3) Ladarius Webb DB 5) Jason Phillips LB Davon Drew TE 6) Cedrick Perrman RB 2008: 1) Joe Flacco QB 2) Ray Rice RB 3) Tavares Gooden LB, Tom Zbikowski DB, Oniel Cousins T 4) Marcus Smith WR 5) used for 2007 supplemental pick Jared Gaither T 6) Haruki Nakamura DB 7) Justin Harper WR, Allen Patrick RB 2007: 1) Ben Grubbs G 2)Yamon Figurs WR 3) Marshal Yanda G 4) Antwan Barnes LB, LeRon McClain FB 5) Troy Smith QB 6) Prescott Burgess LB 2006: 1) Haloti Ngata DT 2) Chris Chester OL 3) David Pittman CB 4) Demetrius Williams WR, P.J Daniels RB 5) Dawan Landry S 6) Quinn Sypniewski TE, Sam Koch P , Derrick Martin CB 7) Ryan LaCasse LB 2005: 1) Mark Clayton WR 2) Dan Cody DE, Adam Terry T 4) Jason Brown C (let for big FA$, starts for Stl.) 5 Justin Green FB 6) Derek Anderson QB 7) Mike Smith LB 2004: 2) Dwan Edwards DL 3) Devard Darling WR 5) Roderick Green LB 6) Clarence Moore WR 7) Derek Abney WR , Brian Rimpf T 2003: 1) Terrell Suggs LB, Kyle Boller QB 3) Musa Smith RB 4) Jarret Johnson LB, Ovie Mughelli FB (left for big FA $ to Atl) 5) Aubrayo Franklin DT 6) Gerome Sapp DB 7) Trent Smith TE, Mike Mabry OL, Antwoine Sanders DB 2002 : 1) Ed Reed S 2) Anthony Weaver DT 4) Dave Zastudil P 5 Terry Jones TE 6) Lamont Brightful WR, Chester Taylor RB (just signed big $ FA deal with Bears after leaving as FA to Minnesota) Chad Williams DB 7) Wes Pate QB 2001: 1) Todd Heap TE 2) Gary Baxter DB 3) Casey Rabach C 4) Edgerton Hartwell LB 5) Chris Barnes RB 6) Joe Maese C 7) Dwayne Missouri DE 2000: 1) Jamal Lewis RB, Travis Taylor WR 3) Chris Redman QB 5) Richard Mercier G 6) Adalius ThomasLB (Left for big FA $ to NE 2007) , Cedric Woodard DT
Lori Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 say what you will about the draft.it's easy to knock it, because crapshoots are never easy, especially when a team's drafting mostly outside the top 5. in the end, though, what's glaringly obvious to me having covered this team for 10 years is how the Bills, for the most part, failed to address their offensive line, made the wrong decision in failing to re-sign Pat Williams and, most of all, have utterly failed in identifying a franchise quarterback. i simply don't buy into this kneejerk reaction that the draft has done the team in. it hasn't helped, though it hasn't been all that bad, but it isn't the sole reason either, in my humble opinion, jw I keep going back to BADOL's train of thought -- it's not so much the players the Bills have drafted, but the continuing roster churn. As you pointed out, Pat Williams' departure left a gaping hole on the DL. If they'd kept him, they wouldn't have had to reach for McCargo. Ditto for the revolving door at CB, which traces all the way back to the Super Bowl era: Derrick Burroughs (career-ending injury), Nate Odomes (FA-Seattle), and JD Williams (bust) begat Jeff Burris (FA-Indy) and Thomas Smith (FA-Chicago), who were replaced by Antoine Winfield (FA-Minnesota) and Nate Clements (FA-SF), with Leodis McKelvin (??) the latest rental. And except for Odomes (#2-1987), every single one of those players was a first-round pick. Same at RB; since 1997, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, Willis McGahee, and Marshawn Lynch (three first-rounders and a second) have all tried to fill Thurman's shoes. None of the first three lasted more than four seasons here; we'll see about Lynch. And who was the starter at the end of last season? A Division III undrafted free agent. Meanwhile, between 1995 (Ruben Brown) and 2009 (Eric Wood), they used exactly ONE first-round pick on the OL, and missed on that one. Good grief -- no wonder we haven't seen a playoff game here since it was still called Rich Stadium.
BB2004 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 first 3 picks of 2001, and 2009 were the only decent drafts once you get past the pathetic Maybin pick. Take a look at these selections. Sickening 2009 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State 4 121 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 5 147 Nic Harris LB Oklahoma 6 183 Cary Harris DB USC 7 220 Ellis Lankster DB West Virginia 2008 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy 2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 3 72 Chris Ellis DE Virginia Tech 4 114 Reggie Corner DB Akron 4 132 Derek Fine TE Kansas 5 147 Alvin Bowen OLB Iowa State 6 179 Xavier Omon RB Northwest Missouri State 7 219 Demetrius Bell T Northwestern State-Louisiana 7 224 Steve Johnson WR Kentucky 7 251 Kennard Cox CB Pittsburgh 2007 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford 4 111 Dwayne Wright RB Fresno State 6 184 John Wendling DB Wyoming 7 222 Derek Schouman FB Boise State 7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma 2006 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina 5 134 Kyle Williams DT Louisiana State 5 143 Brad Butler T Virginia 6 178 Keith Ellison OLB Oregon State 7 216 Terrance Pennington T New Mexico 7 248 Aaron Merz G California 2005 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) 4 122 Duke Preston C Illinois 5 156 Eric King DB Wake Forest 6 197 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt 7 236 Lionel Gates RB Louisville 2004 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane 3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State 7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana 7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech 2003 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) 2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 3 94 Angelo Crowell LB Virginia 4 111 Terrence McGee DB Northwestern State-Louisiana 4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina 5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah 7 228 Mario Haggan LB Mississippi State 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford 5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado 6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn 7 249 Rodney Wright -- Fresno State 7 251 Jarrett Ferguson -- Virginia Tech 7 260 Dominique Stevenson LB Tennessee 2001 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State 2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M 3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia 4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina 5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois 6 178 Tony Driver DB Notre Dame 6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame 6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt 7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State 7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Georgia 2000 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State 2 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 3 89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech 4 121 Avion Black WR Tennessee State 5 156 Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech 6 194 Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso 7 233 Drew Haddad WR Buffalo 7 251 DaShon Polk LB Arizona Well, it is fairly clear that 2009's draft has a lot of good players for us so far.
outsidethebox Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I keep going back to BADOL's train of thought -- it's not so much the players the Bills have drafted, but the continuing roster churn. As you pointed out, Pat Williams' departure left a gaping hole on the DL. If they'd kept him, they wouldn't have had to reach for McCargo. Ditto for the revolving door at CB, which traces all the way back to the Super Bowl era: Derrick Burroughs (career-ending injury), Nate Odomes (FA-Seattle), and JD Williams (bust) begat Jeff Burris (FA-Indy) and Thomas Smith (FA-Chicago), who were replaced by Antoine Winfield (FA-Minnesota) and Nate Clements (FA-SF), with Leodis McKelvin (??) the latest rental. And except for Odomes (#2-1987), every single one of those players was a first-round pick. Same at RB; since 1997, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, Willis McGahee, and Marshawn Lynch (three first-rounders and a second) have all tried to fill Thurman's shoes. None of the first three lasted more than four seasons here; we'll see about Lynch. And who was the starter at the end of last season? A Division III undrafted free agent. Meanwhile, between 1995 (Ruben Brown) and 2009 (Eric Wood), they used exactly ONE first-round pick on the OL, and missed on that one. Good grief -- no wonder we haven't seen a playoff game here since it was still called Rich Stadium. Great post Lori. When you spell it out like that, it really hammers it home how inept this team has been. Lets hope Nix and co. know how to turn this team around.
mjohns85 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 first 3 picks of 2001, and 2009 were the only decent drafts once you get past the pathetic Maybin pick. Take a look at these selections. Sickening 2009 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State 4 121 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 5 147 Nic Harris LB Oklahoma 6 183 Cary Harris DB USC 7 220 Ellis Lankster DB West Virginia 2008 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy 2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 3 72 Chris Ellis DE Virginia Tech 4 114 Reggie Corner DB Akron 4 132 Derek Fine TE Kansas 5 147 Alvin Bowen OLB Iowa State 6 179 Xavier Omon RB Northwest Missouri State 7 219 Demetrius Bell T Northwestern State-Louisiana 7 224 Steve Johnson WR Kentucky 7 251 Kennard Cox CB Pittsburgh 2007 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford 4 111 Dwayne Wright RB Fresno State 6 184 John Wendling DB Wyoming 7 222 Derek Schouman FB Boise State 7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma 2006 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina 5 134 Kyle Williams DT Louisiana State 5 143 Brad Butler T Virginia 6 178 Keith Ellison OLB Oregon State 7 216 Terrance Pennington T New Mexico 7 248 Aaron Merz G California 2005 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) 4 122 Duke Preston C Illinois 5 156 Eric King DB Wake Forest 6 197 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt 7 236 Lionel Gates RB Louisville 2004 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane 3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State 7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana 7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech 2003 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) 2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 3 94 Angelo Crowell LB Virginia 4 111 Terrence McGee DB Northwestern State-Louisiana 4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina 5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah 7 228 Mario Haggan LB Mississippi State 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford 5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado 6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn 7 249 Rodney Wright -- Fresno State 7 251 Jarrett Ferguson -- Virginia Tech 7 260 Dominique Stevenson LB Tennessee 2001 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State 2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M 3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia 4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina 5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois 6 178 Tony Driver DB Notre Dame 6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame 6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt 7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State 7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Georgia 2000 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State 2 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 3 89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech 4 121 Avion Black WR Tennessee State 5 156 Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech 6 194 Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso 7 233 Drew Haddad WR Buffalo 7 251 DaShon Polk LB Arizona pretty pathetic
NFLBighits Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 And this is a reminder that i wont purchase Sunday Ticket this year but maybe next year, Now if they would've kept owens i would've but now i'll just go into a coma ! Thanks 4nothing.
JohnC Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 say what you will about the draft.it's easy to knock it, because crapshoots are never easy, especially when a team's drafting mostly outside the top 5. in the end, though, what's glaringly obvious to me having covered this team for 10 years is how the Bills, for the most part, failed to address their offensive line, made the wrong decision in failing to re-sign Pat Williams and, most of all, have utterly failed in identifying a franchise quarterback. i simply don't buy into this kneejerk reaction that the draft has done the team in. it hasn't helped, though it hasn't been all that bad, but it isn't the sole reason either, in my humble opinion, jw John, Of course there is no one reason. There are multiple reasons for this systemic failure. It starts with the caliber of ownership and then it flows from the people he hired to run the franchise. Was Levy equipped to take over for Donahoe who took over for Butler who desperately wanted to get away from the yoke of the overbearing owner? Look at the organizational structure under Brandon? Who was in-charge of making the decisions? A collaborative approach in the front office is one way of not establishing a system of accountability that a standard GM structure has. The Bills have been hideously bad for more than a decade. It has little to do with resources as much as it has to do with the caliber of ownership and organizational incompetence. Under Buddy Nix I finally see someone who has a plan and has the fortitude and patience to follow that plan.
KD in CA Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Their last 9 1st picks all started this season. The 10th, 2000 pick Jamal Lewis started for them when they won the Super Bowl & just retired after finishing his career with Cleveland. That's an impressive list. The Bills first picks? 2000 - Erik Flowers 2001 - Nate Clements 2002 - Mike Williams 2003 - Willis McGahee 2004 - Lee Evans 2005 - Roscoe Parish 2006 - Donte Whitner 2007 - Marshawn Lynch 2008 - Leodis McKelvin 2009 - Aaron Maybin Not one player on that list that I wouldn't have traded to get Oher, Flacco, Ngata, Suggs, Reed, Heap or Lewis. Tale of two franchises.
Bob in STL Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 first 3 picks of 2001, and 2009 were the only decent drafts once you get past the pathetic Maybin pick. Take a look at these selections. Sickening 2009 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State 4 121 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 5 147 Nic Harris LB Oklahoma 6 183 Cary Harris DB USC 7 220 Ellis Lankster DB West Virginia 2008 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy 2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 3 72 Chris Ellis DE Virginia Tech 4 114 Reggie Corner DB Akron 4 132 Derek Fine TE Kansas 5 147 Alvin Bowen OLB Iowa State 6 179 Xavier Omon RB Northwest Missouri State 7 219 Demetrius Bell T Northwestern State-Louisiana 7 224 Steve Johnson WR Kentucky 7 251 Kennard Cox CB Pittsburgh 2007 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford 4 111 Dwayne Wright RB Fresno State 6 184 John Wendling DB Wyoming 7 222 Derek Schouman FB Boise State 7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma 2006 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina 5 134 Kyle Williams DT Louisiana State 5 143 Brad Butler T Virginia 6 178 Keith Ellison OLB Oregon State 7 216 Terrance Pennington T New Mexico 7 248 Aaron Merz G California 2005 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) 4 122 Duke Preston C Illinois 5 156 Eric King DB Wake Forest 6 197 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt 7 236 Lionel Gates RB Louisville 2004 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane 3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State 7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana 7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech 2003 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) 2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 3 94 Angelo Crowell LB Virginia 4 111 Terrence McGee DB Northwestern State-Louisiana 4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina 5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah 7 228 Mario Haggan LB Mississippi State 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford 5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado 6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn 7 249 Rodney Wright -- Fresno State 7 251 Jarrett Ferguson -- Virginia Tech 7 260 Dominique Stevenson LB Tennessee 2001 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State 2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M 3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia 4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina 5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois 6 178 Tony Driver DB Notre Dame 6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame 6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt 7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State 7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Georgia 2000 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State 2 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 3 89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech 4 121 Avion Black WR Tennessee State 5 156 Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech 6 194 Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso 7 233 Drew Haddad WR Buffalo 7 251 DaShon Polk LB Arizona You figured it out. Next you should work on world hunger.
Bob in STL Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I keep going back to BADOL's train of thought -- it's not so much the players the Bills have drafted, but the continuing roster churn. As you pointed out, Pat Williams' departure left a gaping hole on the DL. If they'd kept him, they wouldn't have had to reach for McCargo. Ditto for the revolving door at CB, which traces all the way back to the Super Bowl era: Derrick Burroughs (career-ending injury), Nate Odomes (FA-Seattle), and JD Williams (bust) begat Jeff Burris (FA-Indy) and Thomas Smith (FA-Chicago), who were replaced by Antoine Winfield (FA-Minnesota) and Nate Clements (FA-SF), with Leodis McKelvin (??) the latest rental. And except for Odomes (#2-1987), every single one of those players was a first-round pick. Same at RB; since 1997, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, Willis McGahee, and Marshawn Lynch (three first-rounders and a second) have all tried to fill Thurman's shoes. None of the first three lasted more than four seasons here; we'll see about Lynch. And who was the starter at the end of last season? A Division III undrafted free agent. Meanwhile, between 1995 (Ruben Brown) and 2009 (Eric Wood), they used exactly ONE first-round pick on the OL, and missed on that one. Good grief -- no wonder we haven't seen a playoff game here since it was still called Rich Stadium. You are really hitting on something. The churn is killing us. Continually replacing cornerback and running backs with number one picks is maddening. Neglecting both lines. Whiffing on Mike Williams and McCargo. You got it.
thewildrabbit Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 It all starts at the top, the owner still the president? The ineptitude has been justified because foolish people keep buying season tickets for what transpired in the early 90's. This franchise hasn't been close to the same since they fired Bill Polian, they even had John Butler and AJ Smith and let them go. It is not just the draft, it has been poor free agent acquisitions, bad coaches, bad schemes, bad players. For the life of me I can't wrap my brain around why Bills fans support a k-mart team by selling out games with an inferior product on the field and on the sidelines.The same can be said about an owner of a near billion dollar franchise that lets morons run his team for ten years.
thewildrabbit Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 John, Of course there is no one reason. There are multiple reasons for this systemic failure. It starts with the caliber of ownership and then it flows from the people he hired to run the franchise. Was Levy equipped to take over for Donahoe who took over for Butler who desperately wanted to get away from the yoke of the overbearing owner? Look at the organizational structure under Brandon? Who was in-charge of making the decisions? A collaborative approach in the front office is one way of not establishing a system of accountability that a standard GM structure has. The Bills have been hideously bad for more than a decade. It has little to do with resources as much as it has to do with the caliber of ownership and organizational incompetence. Under Buddy Nix I finally see someone who has a plan and has the fortitude and patience to follow that plan. I dunno, I'm not entirely sold on who he chose as head coach, then who the HC chose as assistants. But then will the front office even allow Nix to do his job by selecting the players the team needs to win... or the players the front office wants to bring in to sell tickets? This team needs to address the O line in a big way, both LT-RT-G and a blocking tight end. Definitely not sexy picks and may not sell many tickets, but they will start to win more games and build a solid foundation for a strong team.
SouthernMan Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 It all starts at the top, the owner still the president? The ineptitude has been justified because foolish people keep buying season tickets for what transpired in the early 90's. This franchise hasn't been close to the same since they fired Bill Polian, they even had John Butler and AJ Smith and let them go. It is not just the draft, it has been poor free agent acquisitions, bad coaches, bad schemes, bad players. For the life of me I can't wrap my brain around why Bills fans support a k-mart team by selling out games with an inferior product on the field and on the sidelines.The same can be said about an owner of a near billion dollar franchise that lets morons run his team for ten years. I want to say it's because they're (moneyman Littman and owner Wilson) too cheap to pay top FAs, but then they go and spend big $$ on the likes of Owens, Dockery, Walker, etc. This leads me to believe the decision makers aren't so much cheap as they are just plain stupid. There are players scattered thoughout this past season's playoff rosters who used to be Bills, but for whatever reason, the Bills saw them as expendable. They've contributed to teams like the Saints, Jets, Vikings, etc. The great irony of this post/thread is the fact that had the Bills not blown the 1st round pick on Maybin* last year, it would be showing all the signs of one of their best drafts in years. *in my opinion, it's a blown pick because at that high a draft position, the team should have someone who contributes right away - not a project. Does anyone who might want to debate the view think he'll be a starter this coming season? Barring a promotion via injury, I highly doubt you'll see his name at the top of the depth chart any time soon. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Ramblin' Rob Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Sorry to post the same thing in multiple posts, but I feel this point needs to be driven home. Truth is, 99% of the naysayers are no more qualified to analyze the moves this FO make, than they are to perform heart surgery. This thread is exactly why I don't miss WNY, at least for football. I do miss good pizza, wings, family and friends in that order. Perhaps our reputation as a last option destination for top talent is perpetuated by us (you negative fans). Look back over the past decade, i can think of a few quick first day FA signings, and one was good. Fletcher, and most of you beat him up too. you people who bit*h about what ever happens is the reason people look down on WNY. This front office is in a no win situation with fans until they start to win. And even then, I am sure will still not be happy. After all there were 'Reich should be the starter' guys back in Kelly's hay day. Sorry to say it, but you negative Nancies are losers.
JohnC Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 I dunno, I'm not entirely sold on who he chose as head coach, then who the HC chose as assistants. But then will the front office even allow Nix to do his job by selecting the players the team needs to win... or the players the front office wants to bring in to sell tickets? This team needs to address the O line in a big way, both LT-RT-G and a blocking tight end. Definitely not sexy picks and may not sell many tickets, but they will start to win more games and build a solid foundation for a strong team. Buddy Nix is the mainstay in the front office. He is heading it up and shoring it up with his own people. I believe that the owner has given him the authority to make the personnel decisions within the established budget with little interference. Your point about focusing on the OL is spot on. I believe the first pick is going to be an OT and there will be other OL picks coming from this draft and free agency. As it presently stands not only are there major needs at both tackle spots but there is little depth on the line. In my view depth will be added with second tier free agent picks. That is a smart way to go. Whereas Dick Jauron believed in building a team from the outside/in, Nix takes the opposite view of building from the inside/out. Under Nix the roster will be reworked to bring in bigger, bulkier and stronger players compared to lighter and quicker players. This cleansing and reformulation are going to take at least a few years. There is no quick fix to a very damaged product.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 first 3 picks of 2001, and 2009 were the only decent drafts once you get past the pathetic Maybin pick. Take a look at these selections. Sickening 2009 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State 4 121 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 5 147 Nic Harris LB Oklahoma 6 183 Cary Harris DB USC 7 220 Ellis Lankster DB West Virginia 2008 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy 2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 3 72 Chris Ellis DE Virginia Tech 4 114 Reggie Corner DB Akron 4 132 Derek Fine TE Kansas 5 147 Alvin Bowen OLB Iowa State 6 179 Xavier Omon RB Northwest Missouri State 7 219 Demetrius Bell T Northwestern State-Louisiana 7 224 Steve Johnson WR Kentucky 7 251 Kennard Cox CB Pittsburgh 2007 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford 4 111 Dwayne Wright RB Fresno State 6 184 John Wendling DB Wyoming 7 222 Derek Schouman FB Boise State 7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma 2006 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina 5 134 Kyle Williams DT Louisiana State 5 143 Brad Butler T Virginia 6 178 Keith Ellison OLB Oregon State 7 216 Terrance Pennington T New Mexico 7 248 Aaron Merz G California 2005 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) 4 122 Duke Preston C Illinois 5 156 Eric King DB Wake Forest 6 197 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt 7 236 Lionel Gates RB Louisville 2004 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane 3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State 7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana 7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech 2003 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) 2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 3 94 Angelo Crowell LB Virginia 4 111 Terrence McGee DB Northwestern State-Louisiana 4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina 5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah 7 228 Mario Haggan LB Mississippi State 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford 5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado 6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn 7 249 Rodney Wright -- Fresno State 7 251 Jarrett Ferguson -- Virginia Tech 7 260 Dominique Stevenson LB Tennessee 2001 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State 2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M 3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia 4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina 5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois 6 178 Tony Driver DB Notre Dame 6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame 6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt 7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State 7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Georgia 2000 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State 2 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 3 89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech 4 121 Avion Black WR Tennessee State 5 156 Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech 6 194 Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso 7 233 Drew Haddad WR Buffalo 7 251 DaShon Polk LB Arizona Obviously, our drafts haven't been good. But it's not just as black and white IMO. 1) As terrible as this decade has been, the Bills are not the worst team in the NFL. They do enough winning to not be terrible. They had 2 top 5 picks in the last 30 years. They have never picked a QB in the top 10, much less the top of the draft. As much someone want to make the Bills out as the worst team ever, it's simply not true. In a way, though it is almost worst to be average or slightly below average. For the most part franchise changers are found in the top of the draft. 2) Every team screws up the draft. The best teams at consisently drafting well are the Chargers, Colts (and it's a little overrated), Eagles, Ravens, and Steelers. The Pats have had some pretty crappy drafts. As much as we want to blame the drafts and FAs (and they obviously hurt), the answer is pretty simple. We have gone 7-9, 7-9, and 6-10 starting Losman, Edwards, and Fitz. A franchise QB makes the difference. How bad would the Colts been without Manning? The Saints without Brees? Unfortunately, I don't feel there is a franchise QB worth the #9 spot in this draft. I would never root for the Bills to lose, but if we are in spot next year to pick Locker or Mallett, I could live with another bad season. No matter how we draft, without a QB (in 905 of the case), you're gonna struggle.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 Sorry to post the same thing in multiple posts, but I feel this point needs to be driven home. Truth is, 99% of the naysayers are no more qualified to analyze the moves this FO make, than they are to perform heart surgery. This thread is exactly why I don't miss WNY, at least for football. I do miss good pizza, wings, family and friends in that order. Perhaps our reputation as a last option destination for top talent is perpetuated by us (you negative fans). Look back over the past decade, i can think of a few quick first day FA signings, and one was good. Fletcher, and most of you beat him up too. you people who bit*h about what ever happens is the reason people look down on WNY. This front office is in a no win situation with fans until they start to win. And even then, I am sure will still not be happy. After all there were 'Reich should be the starter' guys back in Kelly's hay day. Sorry to say it, but you negative Nancies are losers. I agree.
Pete Posted March 6, 2010 Author Posted March 6, 2010 Sorry to post the same thing in multiple posts, but I feel this point needs to be driven home. Truth is, 99% of the naysayers are no more qualified to analyze the moves this FO make, than they are to perform heart surgery. This thread is exactly why I don't miss WNY, at least for football. I do miss good pizza, wings, family and friends in that order. Perhaps our reputation as a last option destination for top talent is perpetuated by us (you negative fans). Look back over the past decade, i can think of a few quick first day FA signings, and one was good. Fletcher, and most of you beat him up too. you people who bit*h about what ever happens is the reason people look down on WNY. This front office is in a no win situation with fans until they start to win. And even then, I am sure will still not be happy. After all there were 'Reich should be the starter' guys back in Kelly's hay day. Sorry to say it, but you negative Nancies are losers. You miss pizza and wings more then your friends and family? And equating football to heart surgery is asinine
Ramblin' Rob Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 "You miss pizza and wings more then your friends and family?" My tongue was firmly in cheek. "And equating football to heart surgery is asinine" I was not equating the two, I was however equating your ability to perform heart surgery and your ability to evaluate football. your a fan. Thanks for driving home my point about negativity.
jeffhcb1 Posted March 6, 2010 Posted March 6, 2010 first 3 picks of 2001, and 2009 were the only decent drafts once you get past the pathetic Maybin pick. Take a look at these selections. Sickening 2009 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Aaron Maybin DE Penn State 1 28 Eric Wood C Louisville 2 42 Jairus Byrd DB Oregon 2 51 Andy Levitre G Oregon State 4 121 Shawn Nelson TE Southern Mississippi 5 147 Nic Harris LB Oklahoma 6 183 Cary Harris DB USC 7 220 Ellis Lankster DB West Virginia 2008 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 11 Leodis McKelvin CB Troy 2 41 James Hardy WR Indiana 3 72 Chris Ellis DE Virginia Tech 4 114 Reggie Corner DB Akron 4 132 Derek Fine TE Kansas 5 147 Alvin Bowen OLB Iowa State 6 179 Xavier Omon RB Northwest Missouri State 7 219 Demetrius Bell T Northwestern State-Louisiana 7 224 Steve Johnson WR Kentucky 7 251 Kennard Cox CB Pittsburgh 2007 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 12 Marshawn Lynch RB California 2 34 Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State 3 92 Trent Edwards QB Stanford 4 111 Dwayne Wright RB Fresno State 6 184 John Wendling DB Wyoming 7 222 Derek Schouman FB Boise State 7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma 2006 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina 5 134 Kyle Williams DT Louisiana State 5 143 Brad Butler T Virginia 6 178 Keith Ellison OLB Oregon State 7 216 Terrance Pennington T New Mexico 7 248 Aaron Merz G California 2005 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 2 55 Roscoe Parrish WR Miami (Fla.) 3 86 Kevin Everett TE Miami (Fla.) 4 122 Duke Preston C Illinois 5 156 Eric King DB Wake Forest 6 197 Justin Geisinger G Vanderbilt 7 236 Lionel Gates RB Louisville 2004 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 13 Lee Evans WR Wisconsin 1 22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane 3 74 Tim Anderson DT Ohio State 4 109 Tim Euhus TE Oregon State 7 207 Dylan McFarland T Montana 7 214 Jonathan Smith WR Georgia Tech 2003 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) 2 48 Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska 3 94 Angelo Crowell LB Virginia 4 111 Terrence McGee DB Northwestern State-Louisiana 4 127 Sam Aiken WR North Carolina 5 151 Ben Sobieski G Iowa 6 187 Lauvale Sape DT Utah 7 228 Mario Haggan LB Mississippi State 2002 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 4 Mike Williams T Texas 2 36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State 2 61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young 3 97 Coy Wire SS Stanford 5 139 Justin Bannan DT Colorado 6 176 Kevin Thomas CB Nevada-Las Vegas 7 215 Mike Pucillo G Auburn 7 249 Rodney Wright -- Fresno State 7 251 Jarrett Ferguson -- Virginia Tech 7 260 Dominique Stevenson LB Tennessee 2001 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 21 Nate Clements CB Ohio State 2 46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian 2 58 Travis Henry HB Tennessee 3 76 Ron Edwards DT Texas A&M 3 95 Jonas Jennings T Georgia 4 110 Brandon Spoon MLB North Carolina 5 144 Marques Sullivan T Illinois 6 178 Tony Driver DB Notre Dame 6 195 Dan O'Leary TE Notre Dame 6 196 Jimmy Williams CB Vanderbilt 7 214 Reggie Germany WR Ohio State 7 238 Tyrone Robertson DT Georgia 2000 - Buffalo Bills Rd Sel # Player Position School 1 26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State 2 58 Travares Tillman FS Georgia Tech 3 89 Corey Moore OLB Virginia Tech 4 121 Avion Black WR Tennessee State 5 156 Sammy Morris RB Texas Tech 6 194 Leif Larsen DT Texas-El Paso 7 233 Drew Haddad WR Buffalo 7 251 DaShon Polk LB Arizona Spot on bro! We know why we suck. Good teams (just like any other business) have smart/quality people at the top. We do not, and haven't since Polian. Ralph is not a smart guy. To be honest, I can't stand the guy. He can't pass this team over to new ownership fast enough. Can it get better? Sure. But any fan that gives these guys the benefit of the doubt is a blind fool. We should all be critical of them at every step, question every move they make. If you just go along with everything they do like its great, then God help you.
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