Marv - worst GM in history of NFL?

[uforesircher]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

 

your post - worst in history of NFL?

[Nanker]

Thanks! You beat me to it.

 

I will go on record as saying, hiring Marv Levy as GM was a very poor decision by Ralph Wilson, and I was one who said so at the time...many here were in love with the whole idea.

 

That being said, I don't know if it is even fair to rank Marv...he didn't really serve the Bills in the traditional role of a GM in the NFL. I give him credit for stepping down, because he recognized that he was being held responsible for what was a sinking ship...

 

Also, you can criticize Marvs' draft picks all you want, but, for the most part, those decisions were made with some football intellect behind them, and the players were chosen to fill specific needs. A team with as poor a roster as the Bills have, can't afford to miss on any draft picks in the lower rounds. People around here B word about Whitner, Lynch, Posluszny, Edwards, etc...but those were all considered good, solid picks at the time. We don't even know for certain that some of those guys might not be good to great pros, with a real coaching staff. I would like to see what Whitner can do in a real defense, before throwing him on the scrap heap, instead of the new age bull **** thing the Bills have been going with the last four years...

 

The free agent signings, and overpaying for marginal players like Walker and Dockery, can't be fully attributed to Marv either...if I recall, Marv didn't really have much to do with contracts.

 

The one (very bad) decision that Marv seemed to have the most say in, was the hiring of Richard Jauron as head coach. I will confess, at the time, I liked the move...but we all know, he was, possibly, the worst, if not one of the 3 worst coaches in franchise history.

 

There is little to show for Marvs tenure in Buffalo as GM, but he may not even be the worst GM in franchise history. Buffalo Bills/AFL great, Stew Barber might have some claim to that title...or maybe Terry Bletsoe?

 

A different HC could have made all the difference. DJ was an abject disaster as HC. Totally incompetent.

[BillsfaninFl]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

 

Such venom for a hall of fame guy? Let's look at the other side of the coin. Levy was approached by Wilson after the Donahoe disaster. Wilson (if you consider his comments at the time) made himself the defacto GM. Marv was brought on to quiet the volatile situation (including fan unrest) and bring back a congenial working arrangement among the staff. Therefore, he did his job. (Actually, Levy wanted to coach, but Wilson refused.) As it became apparent later, the deal between them was that Marv do this for two seasons, then leave, which he did.

 

Levy never really was a working GM. He was a coach wearing the GM hat. Next, we had a marketing guy wearing the GM hat and now we have a scout making believe. Ralph Wilson was and is the GM for the Buffalo Bills.

[JohnC]

I think your rant misses the point as even if you judge Marv as horrible it really only reflects on the real issue which is the team owner Mr. Ralph.

 

Marv's results simply stand as a double indictment of the team owner as in the end it is the big guy who writes the big checks for failures like Langston Walker and Dockery and who was it who made judgment to hire what you call the worst GM in NFL history in the first place.

 

Actually if one really wants to make an accurate assessment then who deserves the blame for firing GM Polian, for having such a toxic relationship with Butler he left the Bills in completely horrible shape with the timing of his departure or even worse if he tanked his last draft with a far worse choice than Whitner was.

 

Mr. Ralph then added insult to injury by hiring TD and totally failing to manage some clear flaws in his strategy (TD seemed to hire GW with a goal of not getting run out of town by a successful HC he hired as he was with Cowher and then showed the utter toxicity of him managing the GM situation by having to fire TD.

 

You seem to pretty much miss the point by poking the corpse of Marv.

 

You are spot on. The disaster left by Marv Levy was caused by the owner who not only drove away quality GMs but also hired Levy who was ill-equipped for the job in the first place. The incompetent owner hired someone who was out of the game for more than a few years, who lacked experience working in the front office and who didn't even have a desire for the position. When the owner went to the congenial Levy to take over the operation Levy instead tried to maneuver himself into the HC job.

 

Even Levy admitted that he wasn't a typical GM. He considered himself a facilitator whose job was to create an environment of consensus. More often than not he deferred to others in the scouting department. The one area he was directly at fault was in his hiring of Jauron and giving him a major say in personnel.

 

The Bills organizational structure was insane. It was designed to fail. Authority was too diffused and dispersed to create a system of accountability. It is almost comical how staff members have recently pointed the fingers at others for poor draft and personnel decisions.

 

Ralph Wilson has owned the Bills for half a century. In four out of the five decades of ownership the Bills have had a losing record. In the one decade where the Bills did have astonishing success the owner fired the architect of the team, Bill Polian, because he sided with Jeff Littman, his finance man. The Bills have been out of the playoffs for a decade. During that dismal period the Bills ranked 29 out of 32. Without a doubt it is the owner who is the most influential reason for this embarrassing franchise.

[nucci]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

The NFL has been around for over 80 years. Marv was GM for about two of those years. Worst ever might be a bit of a stretch.

[metzelaars_lives]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

 

You sound like a real jerk, first and foremost. Second of all, isn't there a certain amount of luck involved? For instance, I loved the J.P. Losman pick until three years later when it became evident it wasn't going to work. But I remember seeing him in the 2004 preseason and saying, "man this kid is big, tough, has a great attitude, can whiz the football and gets at least ten yards every time he runs." He was projected to go pretty close to where he went. Unless Marv had psychic powers, how was he to know that it wouldn't work out? Now, with respect to the Whitner pick, that was definitely a poor pick from a value standpoint because if they really coveted him that much, they could've traded down and got him in the 20's and probably even the second round. Marv did not have a successful tenure as Bills' GM, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit here and let you be that harsh about the greatest figure in the history of the franchise.

[VADC Bills]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

Matt Millen wins this one by a mile leading his organization to a historic 0-16 record. Marv kept us mired in mediocrity.

Royal, Walker, and Dockery weren't worth the money but our OL did become better than it was (which isn't saying much). Whitner at 8 and trading up for McCargo and Poz was stupid, we lost two picks for those deals. Whitner and Poz symbolize the mediocrity of the Levy era. It will be interesting to see how these guys will fit in the Nix era because I would have them both on the trading block. They have had 3-4 years to prove their mediocrity. Whitner is no better than Wilson or Byrd while Poz was no better than DiGiorgio.

The whole philosophy about smaller and quicker showed how outdated Levy was, but the Bills still managed 7-9 records out of the deal.

[C.Biscuit97]

Marv isn't even the worst GM of this team in the past decade. That honor goes to TD.

[K-9]

Such venom for a hall of fame guy? Let's look at the other side of the coin. Levy was approached by Wilson after the Donahoe disaster. Wilson (if you consider his comments at the time) made himself the defacto GM. Marv was brought on to quiet the volatile situation (including fan unrest) and bring back a congenial working arrangement among the staff. Therefore, he did his job. (Actually, Levy wanted to coach, but Wilson refused.) As it became apparent later, the deal between them was that Marv do this for two seasons, then leave, which he did.

 

Levy never really was a working GM. He was a coach wearing the GM hat. Next, we had a marketing guy wearing the GM hat and now we have a scout making believe. Ralph Wilson was and is the GM for the Buffalo Bills.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that being a scout hardly qualifies one to be a GM, are you? Because if you are you may be surprised that nearly every GM has his roots in scouting in some wasy shape or form. Yes there are other facets to the job other than talent evaluation but when it comes to a GM having a keen eye for football players, it's most likely due to his time served as a scout.

 

Will Buddy Nix be a good GM? Don't know. But that will depend on how he handles other facets of the GM job. In the meantime, I'll rest easy knowing we have one of the best scouts to at least handle that aspect of the position. His ability to scout and find football players is unquestioned.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kultarr]

I think your rant misses the point as even if you judge Marv as horrible it really only reflects on the real issue which is the team owner Mr. Ralph.

 

Marv's results simply stand as a double indictment of the team owner as in the end it is the big guy who writes the big checks for failures like Langston Walker and Dockery and who was it who made judgment to hire what you call the worst GM in NFL history in the first place.

 

Actually if one really wants to make an accurate assessment then who deserves the blame for firing GM Polian, for having such a toxic relationship with Butler he left the Bills in completely horrible shape with the timing of his departure or even worse if he tanked his last draft with a far worse choice than Whitner was.

 

Mr. Ralph then added insult to injury by hiring TD and totally failing to manage some clear flaws in his strategy (TD seemed to hire GW with a goal of not getting run out of town by a successful HC he hired as he was with Cowher and then showed the utter toxicity of him managing the GM situation by having to fire TD.

 

You seem to pretty much miss the point by poking the corpse of Marv.

The problems run deeper, that is true. Putting a smiling, familiar face on an inept and underachieving organization certainly didn't improve the product.

[buffaloaggie]

Matt Millen wins this one by a mile leading his organization to a historic 0-16 record. Marv kept us mired in mediocrity.

Royal, Walker, and Dockery weren't worth the money but our OL did become better than it was (which isn't saying much). Whitner at 8 and trading up for McCargo and Poz was stupid, we lost two picks for those deals. Whitner and Poz symbolize the mediocrity of the Levy era. It will be interesting to see how these guys will fit in the Nix era because I would have them both on the trading block. They have had 3-4 years to prove their mediocrity. Whitner is no better than Wilson or Byrd while Poz was no better than DiGiorgio.

The whole philosophy about smaller and quicker showed how outdated Levy was, but the Bills still managed 7-9 records out of the deal.

I scratched my head at most of Marv's moves as GM. Marv was not qualified as a GM. Ralph was desperate to get a link to the success of the 90's back for failing franchise. He hired Marv and appeased Bills fans with his presence. Then, as Bills fans realized Marv's inability as a GM, they turned on Wilson and rightly so.

 

I agree that Marv continued our mediocrity at best. His success rate with his moves are probably even below the Mendoza line. His draft picks lacked talent, lacked character, and basically did not make a lot of sense other than being desperate. This franchise has been in desperation mode since getting rid of Polian and Butler and their moves reflect the desperation by reaching for Whitner and McCargo, overpaying for Walker and Dockery. Our OL got better due to the development of Peters as well as those two's presence, but yes the two weren't worth the money. I didn't mind the trade up for Poz. Edwards may have been OK if he hadn't sustained the concussion against the Cards. He has obviously not been the same since. Hiring Jauron was a horrible move...duh.

 

Levy = Great Coach, bad GM, but not the worst in the NFL by far, not even the worst in Bills history.

[evilbuffalobob]

Let's not forget that Marv was drafting players to fit Limp DJ's pathetic schemes, particularliy horrific on the defensive side of the ball in the name of Tampon-2. Had he been employing the old Bills drafting philosophy 'drafting the best available player,' don't you maybe, possibly think the choices may have been different? Huh? I do.

 

In a historic sense, far too much cronyism for my taste. ... which is perhaps my only concern with the current regime.

[bkc]

As bad as Marv was things were made worse by turnng things over to dickie J. By all account a great guy but he flwed theory of have quick small players is really what is setting us back right now. Oh yeah that and not thinking you need offensive tackles

[bkc]

Let's not forget that Marv was drafting players to fit Limp DJ's pathetic schemes, particularliy horrific on the defensive side of the ball in the name of Tampon-2. Had he been employing the old Bills drafting philosophy 'drafting the best available player,' don't you maybe, possibly think the choices may have been different? Huh? I do.

 

In a historic sense, far too much cronyism for my taste. ... which is perhaps my only concern with the current regime.

I agree

[thewildrabbit]

A different HC could have made all the difference. DJ was an abject disaster as HC. Totally incompetent.

I agree

 

This Thread should be about worst head coach in Buffalo Bills history and Jauron is right up there with Hank Bullough.

[thewildrabbit]

You sound like a real jerk, first and foremost. Second of all, isn't there a certain amount of luck involved? For instance, I loved the J.P. Losman pick until three years later when it became evident it wasn't going to work. But I remember seeing him in the 2004 preseason and saying, "man this kid is big, tough, has a great attitude, can whiz the football and gets at least ten yards every time he runs." He was projected to go pretty close to where he went. Unless Marv had psychic powers, how was he to know that it wouldn't work out? Now, with respect to the Whitner pick, that was definitely a poor pick from a value standpoint because if they really coveted him that much, they could've traded down and got him in the 20's and probably even the second round. Marv did not have a successful tenure as Bills' GM, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna sit here and let you be that harsh about the greatest figure in the history of the franchise.

 

JP Losman failed because he was put into Jaurons and Turd Schonerts hands.

[BillsfaninSixburgh]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

 

Marv's not even close. He didn't do much as the Bill's GM, but he wasn't around long enough to even be in a discussion of worst Bills GM's, let alone worst all-time NFL GM's. The Bills are still trying to recover from the Donohoe era. If you were a fan of the team in the late 60's, most of the 70's and 80's between the '82 strike and '86 arrival of Jim Kelly & Co, the Bills have been a lot worse off. Yes, ten years is the longest period without a playoff appearance. However, that's more on Donahoe than Marv. The Bills are still trying to recover from blown 1st and 2nd round draft choices under Donahoe more than anything else.

 

TD's top two picks in the 2001 draft (his first in Buffalo) brought Nate Clements and Aaron Schoebel. He was off to a good start. However, from 2002 to 2005 Donahoe picked these players in the first two rounds: Mike Williams, Josh Reed, Willis McGahee, Chris Kelsay, Lee Evans, JP Losman, Roscoe Parrish and Kevin Everett. The only stud in the bunch was Evans. Williams - HUGE BUST; Reed - good steady player, but not game changer; McGahee - head-case/spotty, but for a first rounder - a bust; Kelsay - average at best; Evans - good pick; Losman - consolation prize as Big Ben went 2 picks earlier/bust; Parrish - gimmick player/reach; and Everett - career ending injury.

 

Marv was at helm for 2006 and 2007 drafts. Bills took Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, and Pozluzny in first two rounds. Except for McCargo, the other three have mostly been above average and big contributors. (Yes I know this past year Lynch was a no-show, but he was the team's bright spot his first two seasons).

 

As for the entire NFL, to be considered the all-time worst GM, you have to look at someone with more than a track record of two years. I'd start the discussion with Mike Brown. He's been in the position with the Bengals for what seems like forever, and his overall track record is terrible. Only in the past few years have the Bengal's done anything since the Esiason era. Millen definitely has to be on the list, as does whoever has been in charge of the Cardinals up until about 3 years ago. Finally, at this time is hard to think of putting anyone in the Saints in this discussion, but they didn't even have a winning record in ther first 20 years of existence, and until this year I believe they only won one other playoff game ever.

 

Marv the coach - A- (win me at least one of those Super Bowl's to get an A+)

Marv the GM - Incomplete (let's wait another year or two to see how Lynch and McCargo fare under new regime). If I had to grade Marv the GM right now. D+ or C-

[billsfreak]

If/when Whitner is traded/released will that cement Marv as the worst GM in NFL history? I know Millen was awful but Marv's decisions wereworse. Not trading down when Denver offered, Tutan Reyes, Bennie Anderson, trading up for McCargo and Poz, grossly overpaying for langston Walker, Robert Royal, Derrick Dockery, and listening to a cancer riddled Bill Walsh about Trent. Fred Jackson. That's his only contribution....

Three words-You're an ass!

[C.Biscuit97]

JP Losman failed because he was put into Jaurons and Turd Schonerts hands.

 

 

What about Mularkey then? He worked wonders with every QB he has ever had except two - Losman and Joey Harrington. Coincidence?

[R. Rich]

The NFL has been around for over 80 years.

 

That can't be true. There's only been 44 Super Bowls, so...