If we trade Whitner...

[C.Biscuit97]

When you trade (and it hasn't happened yet) an 8th pick four seasons after taking him, that's an indication the guy was a disappointment. Depth wouldn't matter because the guy would be your top player at their position. Whitner isn't, and it's why he'll get cut, dealt for picks, or take a seat on the bench.

 

 

 

College production doesn't mean much when considering what kind of pro career they'll have. There's a laundry list of top QB's who were drafted for their numbers, and it didn't work out. Ware, Klingler, Detmer, Couch, Torretta. RB's as well, to include several Heisman winners. Even guys like USF DE George Selvie, who was talked about as a first rounder last year for their production, were shown that it wouldn't transition to the pros. Now he's probably a mid rounder.

 

The reason Berry got all the hype before the season was because of the numbers he put up his first 2 years. Teams probably avoid him more, but for his standards, he had a down year.

 

Also, Whitner was on pace for 123 tackles and already had a INT for a touchdown. He had the best start of his career before he got injured and tried to rush back before he was ready. He can play numerous positions in the defensive backfield, is a good open field tackler, and a great leader. If he can stay healthy (and that's a big if lately), he will be a player for some team.

 

That said, if you can improve the team, you trade him. We have good depth so we can afford to move him. But I will not be surprised when DW becomes a key player on another team.

[uncle flap]

here's the reason this whole scenario will not happen-

if Berry's good enough for us to take him regardless of our other needs, and based on him being best player avail, then why wouldn't any of the other 8 teams pick him? Especially Clevland.

 

 

Which sounds better: starting safties Berry and Bryd and staying pat with our front 7 on defense or starting safties Bryd and Wilson and either starting ILB McClain or possible starting NT Dan Williams?

 

as a new poster i hope i'm not overextending my self in saying... case closed...RIP thread

[San Jose Bills Fan]

In my recollection, Whitner was a surprise pick and the prevailing thought was that he was overrated by the Bills.

 

That said, Scouts Inc. gave him a grade of 94 prior to the 2006 draft.

 

Strengths: Is a versatile safety prospect. Lacks bulk but shows a powerful upper body for his size. He fills extremely hard versus the run and is relentless in pursuit. He will sacrifice his body in run support and shows absolutely no fear. He takes good angles in pursuit and has developed into a sound open field tackler. Is fluid and athletic. Shows good speed for a DS and provides some versatility because of his ability to cover. He has proven capable of matching up one-on-one vs. bigger WR's in the slot. He has good range in deep coverage and shows the consistent ability to reach the sideline in two-deep coverage. He also is a playmaker when the ball is in the air, showing excellent timing on his jumps and fine ball skills. He has good experience on special teams. Should make an impact covering kicks immediately in the NFL. Plays the game hard and shows a very good work ethic.

 

Weaknesses: Lacks ideal size. Is a bit on the shorter side and needs to add bulk to his frame. He fills hard versus the run and will throw his body around, but he does not match up well in the phone booth. He will get knocked off his feet too easily. Needs to improve his lower body strength and do a better job of knowing his limitation in terms of what blocks he decides to take on. His recognition skills still must improve. He diagnoses some plays too late and will need some polishing in that area. He lacks ideal starting experience and may need more reps than other top DS prospects before he's ready to compete for a fulltime job. He has some durability issues after knee surgery in 2004.

 

As far as I know, they have not yet come out with their grades for this draft class.

[Astrobot]

that'd be a nightmare, and prob wont happen. but if it does you pick the 5th best OT.

 

Okung, Bulaga, Davis, Williams, Campbell

 

FOR OUR SCHEME:

BEST LDE - Derrick Morgan

BEST NT - Dan Williams - Possibly a better run-stopper and space eater than Suh. Suh's footwork needs work.

BEST RDE - Brandon Graham

 

BEST SAM LB - AJ Edds, not Sergio Kindle.

BEST MIKE LB - Rolando McClain, with Spikes a closer 2nd than the board will be willing to admit, followed by Norwood

BEST WILL LB - Sean Weatherspoon

[Alphadawg7]

here's the reason this whole scenario will not happen-

if Berry's good enough for us to take him regardless of our other needs, and based on him being best player avail, then why wouldn't any of the other 8 teams pick him? Especially Clevland.

 

lol... you have already answered your own question here with your other posts. Becase they need OT more than a Safety...the difference with us would be that there are no more OT left at #9 worthy taking over Berry...thats the difference

[BuffaloFanInMaryland]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that we would use that pick for a LT. If we actually make the switch to a 3-4 we are going to need a NT. We are not going to out score many teams regardless of who our QB is this year which means that we are going to have to limit the number of points we give up. Without a big, fast and athletic NT we will be in big trouble in a 3-4 scheme. I would not be surprised if we do not use the 11th pick on a NT if we are unable to aquire one if FA.

[BillsVet]

The reason Berry got all the hype before the season was because of the numbers he put up his first 2 years. Teams probably avoid him more, but for his standards, he had a down year.

 

Also, Whitner was on pace for 123 tackles and already had a INT for a touchdown. He had the best start of his career before he got injured and tried to rush back before he was ready. He can play numerous positions in the defensive backfield, is a good open field tackler, and a great leader. If he can stay healthy (and that's a big if lately), he will be a player for some team.

 

That said, if you can improve the team, you trade him. We have good depth so we can afford to move him. But I will not be surprised when DW becomes a key player on another team.

 

No, Berry is touted as the top safety because he has the skills reportedly commensurate with playing at a high level in the NFL. Players are drafted based on their potential, not college numbers.

 

I don't care what Whitner was on pace to do in 2009. He has been increasingly nicked up, the result of being too small to play SS, and does not possess the instincts (as Berry evidently does) to create turnovers. He struggles in coverage against TE's (see TB game) which is a prime responsibility of SS's.

 

You, once again, are hyping a player who lost his starting spot to 1) a rookie 2nd rounder 2) a street free agent (Scott) and 3) converted UDFA WR. If a top 10 pick is playing different positions, it's never a good thing. Never. Robert Gallery may be a decent G, but he's a huge disappointment because he was drafted to be a lock down LT. Guards, like safeties, are easier to find than top CB's and OT's.

[Alphadawg7]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that we would use that pick for a LT. If we actually make the switch to a 3-4 we are going to need a NT. We are not going to out score many teams regardless of who our QB is this year which means that we are going to have to limit the number of points we give up. Without a big, fast and athletic NT we will be in big trouble in a 3-4 scheme. I would not be surprised if we do not use the 11th pick on a NT if we are unable to aquire one if FA.

 

We have the 9th pick...and the two top DT will be gone #1 and #2 most likely, but 100% for sure before #9...

[C.Biscuit97]

No, Berry is touted as the top safety because he has the skills reportedly commensurate with playing at a high level in the NFL. Players are drafted based on their potential, not college numbers.

 

I don't care what Whitner was on pace to do in 2009. He has been increasingly nicked up, the result of being too small to play SS, and does not possess the instincts (as Berry evidently does) to create turnovers. He struggles in coverage against TE's (see TB game) which is a prime responsibility of SS's.

 

You, once again, are hyping a player who lost his starting spot to 1) a rookie 2nd rounder 2) a street free agent (Scott) and 3) converted UDFA WR. If a top 10 pick is playing different positions, it's never a good thing. Never. Robert Gallery may be a decent G, but he's a huge disappointment because he was drafted to be a lock down LT. Guards, like safeties, are easier to find than top CB's and OT's.

 

 

And you once again have to be as miserable about everything Bills related. This is fun for you?

 

Instead of looking at the positives like Wilson trying into a hell of a safety after almost being out of the league as wr, you have to look at the complete negative side of everything. Whitner never lost his spot to Scott. And if Whitner, who was off to a great start despite you ignoring it, doesn't get hurt, Wilson never plays. Wilson has turned into a good safety. Whitner is a good safety too but has been struggling injuries lately.

 

You trade Whitner because you make the team better. You don't trade him because fans hold an irrational grudge against him.

[BillsVet]

And you once again have to be as miserable about everything Bills related. This is fun for you?

 

Instead of looking at the positives like Wilson trying into a hell of a safety after almost being out of the league as wr, you have to look at the complete negative side of everything. Whitner never lost his spot to Scott. And if Whitner, who was off to a great start despite you ignoring it, doesn't get hurt, Wilson never plays. Wilson has turned into a good safety. Whitner is a good safety too but has been struggling injuries lately.

 

You trade Whitner because you make the team better. You don't trade him because fans hold an irrational grudge against him.

 

Just how long should I give the organization to win? 12 years? 15 years? 20 years? And do you know why they've lost the past few years? Hmm? It's because they drafted poorly, struck out in free agency, and were poorly coached. But there you were rubber-stamping all of these things, and with Lil' Donte, you're still doing it. Whitner is non-essential to this team with the new coaching staff and GM in place. His salary is too high to be the backup he is.

 

I know discussing rational points is out the window with you, but save me the drama. This is the last I'll respond to you, because my brain cells are dying just reading your re-hashed rhetoric.

[C.Biscuit97]

Just how long should I give the organization to win? 12 years? 15 years? 20 years? And do you know why they've lost the past few years? Hmm? It's because they drafted poorly, struck out in free agency, and were poorly coached. But there you were rubber-stamping all of these things, and with Lil' Donte, you're still doing it. Whitner is non-essential to this team with the new coaching staff and GM in place. His salary is too high to be the backup he is.

 

I know discussing rational points is out the window with you, but save me the drama. This is the last I'll respond to you, because my brain cells are dying just reading your re-hashed rhetoric.

 

 

Please not ignore. After a long day of work, how will I survive without your daily "the Bills make me want to kill myself posts?"

[Ramius]

No, Berry is touted as the top safety because he has the skills reportedly commensurate with playing at a high level in the NFL. Players are drafted based on their potential, not college numbers.

 

I don't care what Whitner was on pace to do in 2009. He has been increasingly nicked up, the result of being too small to play SS, and does not possess the instincts (as Berry evidently does) to create turnovers. He struggles in coverage against TE's (see TB game) which is a prime responsibility of SS's.

 

You, once again, are hyping a player who lost his starting spot to 1) a rookie 2nd rounder 2) a street free agent (Scott) and 3) converted UDFA WR. If a top 10 pick is playing different positions, it's never a good thing. Never. Robert Gallery may be a decent G, but he's a huge disappointment because he was drafted to be a lock down LT. Guards, like safeties, are easier to find than top CB's and OT's.

 

Ahh, the old adage of "if i keep repeating it, it must be true".

 

Whitner is NOT one of the smaller safeties in the league. He's right in there as average sized for an NFL safety. Contrary to what you and many others portray, the league is NOT full of 6'2" 225 lb safeties.

 

You only trade Whitner if you can get a good return for him, and cutting him would represent the height of stupidity. I know you guys like to froth and foam at the mouth that Whitner should have not been taken at 8, and thus spastically underrate him on and off the field (because its Whitner's fault that we drafted him that high, obviously), but you simply don't cut or trade a player because he isn't living up to his "draft selection."

[dave mcbride]

Exactly, that is how good Berry is that he is considered a top three pick, and some scouts feel he is the best player in the entire draft. So how do you pass on him at #9 if the top tackles are gone?

Kenny Easley turned out to be a pretty good pick. If he's available, you kinda have to take him if you think he's that much better than everyone else -- except for the fact that the Bills don't have a QB and teams can't win in the NFL without one.

[BillsVet]

Ahh, the old adage of "if i keep repeating it, it must be true".

 

Whitner is NOT one of the smaller safeties in the league. He's right in there as average sized for an NFL safety. Contrary to what you and many others portray, the league is NOT full of 6'2" 225 lb safeties.

 

You only trade Whitner if you can get a good return for him, and cutting him would represent the height of stupidity. I know you guys like to froth and foam at the mouth that Whitner should have not been taken at 8, and thus spastically underrate him on and off the field (because its Whitner's fault that we drafted him that high, obviously), but you simply don't cut or trade a player because he isn't living up to his "draft selection."

 

Where on earth did I suggest Whitner was a "smaller" safety? Absolutely nowhere, but go on putting words in my mouth.

 

Until this year, Troy Polamalu was one of the most durable safeties in the NFL at 5'10 and about 210-215 pounds. Now someone will say he's used differently, but I saw Polamalu get his nose on ball-carriers and make some pics at DW's size. The difference? Instincts. DW doesn't have much compared to guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders.

 

I'd take a 4th for Lil' Donte, given that this team has three safeties who can adequately handle the safety positions. Better to have a chance getting another developmental player than hanging on to an overpaid backup who'll probably be cut.

 

Whitner was a luxury pick for a rebuilding franchise, but go on believing that he had value. Just imagine if the Bills had taken any one of Ngata, Bunkley, or goodness gracious, traded down as Marv admitted he could have.

 

Maximizing resources is why this team will be rebuilding again. Around and around we go, where the Bills stop no one knows.

[C.Biscuit97]

Where on earth did I suggest Whitner was a "smaller" safety? Absolutely nowhere, but go on putting words in my mouth.

 

I'd take a 4th for Lil' Donte, given that this team has three safeties who can adequately handle the safety positions.

 

You couldn't even make it through one post without contradicting yourself.

[Dr. Fong]

Dick? Is that you?

[Ramius]

Where on earth did I suggest Whitner was a "smaller" safety? Absolutely nowhere, but go on putting words in my mouth.

 

Until this year, Troy Polamalu was one of the most durable safeties in the NFL at 5'10 and about 210-215 pounds. Now someone will say he's used differently, but I saw Polamalu get his nose on ball-carriers and make some pics at DW's size. The difference? Instincts. DW doesn't have much compared to guys like Polamalu and Bob Sanders.

 

I'd take a 4th for Lil' Donte, given that this team has three safeties who can adequately handle the safety positions. Better to have a chance getting another developmental player than hanging on to an overpaid backup who'll probably be cut.

 

Whitner was a luxury pick for a rebuilding franchise, but go on believing that he had value. Just imagine if the Bills had taken any one of Ngata, Bunkley, or goodness gracious, traded down as Marv admitted he could have.

 

Maximizing resources is why this team will be rebuilding again. Around and around we go, where the Bills stop no one knows.

 

Whitner was hardly a "luxury" pick. A luxury pick is a pick like McGahee, or Roscoe Parrish. We had a huge hole at the safety position after Milloy was let go. We should have taken Ngata or Bunkley, because they were/are better players. But to say Whitner was a luxury pick is foolish. Just because he wasn't a bit fat guy doesn't mean he was a luxury. He filled a position of need. But, i forgot, this board is filled with a bunch of chubby chasers who don't believe in drafting anything but linemen in the first 3 rounds of every draft.

[Dawgg]

Please not ignore. After a long day of work, how will I survive without your daily "the Bills make me want to kill myself posts?"

... says he, who got called out by the best poster on this board

 

Biscuit, it's inarguable. You are the most consistently wrong, over-opinionated poster on TBD. Also, you are an incredible bag o' douche about it. One literally can go thru every bad move the Bills have made the past decade and just assign you as a supporter of it and the majority of people here would automatically believe it because your track record is just that bad. And they'd probably be right, because you don't just support EVERY move they make, you defend it as if you are going to receive a medal for being the top hate-fueled D-bag fan of the Buffalo Bills.

 

Some fans defend the Bills out of optimism, your online persona is that you just hate everything and everyone that doesn't point to the conclusion that the Bills are infallible. It's bizarre. Your insistence thru season after dismal season, that Dick Jauron was a head coaching equal to Bill Belichick bordered on insanity. Millen-esque? Oh, yeah.

[Quester74]

that'd be a nightmare, and prob wont happen. but if it does you pick the 5th best OT.

 

Okung, Bulaga, Davis, Williams, Campbell

 

McClain

[Dawgg]

Whitner was hardly a "luxury" pick. A luxury pick is a pick like McGahee, or Roscoe Parrish. We had a huge hole at the safety position after Milloy was let go. We should have taken Ngata or Bunkley, because they were/are better players. But to say Whitner was a luxury pick is foolish. Just because he wasn't a bit fat guy doesn't mean he was a luxury. He filled a position of need. But, i forgot, this board is filled with a bunch of chubby chasers who don't believe in drafting anything but linemen in the first 3 rounds of every draft.

It depends on how you define luxury. You define luxury as a pick that wasn't in need. Others define luxury as a selection that was made DESPITE far more pressing needs. Yes, safety was a need. But this was a team that was rebuilding and still reeling from the loss of Pat Williams. When you have your choice of blue-chip DT's in the Top 10 you don't pick that safety unless he has the potential to be a gamechanger... Whitner wasn't a game changer in college and there was no way he was suddenly going to develop into that as a pro.

 

This is not about being a "chubby chaser," it's about basic common sense. I know you threw all your chips in when the Bills selected Whitner. You even bought his jersey. But it's time to let go, now bro. He has been a disappointment and the end of the day, those who lauded the Whitner pick were (once again) proven wrong. That said, I don't necessarily agree with trading him... I doubt he'd command a significant pick in return and might as well keep him on the roster as a 3rd safety.