Mikie2times Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 wonder if TD will try to lure zach thomas from the dolphins. he sounds like an integral part of that defense 133045[/snapback]
Simon Posted November 25, 2004 Author Posted November 25, 2004 In his fourth season he still has not found a way to beat OT's to the inside and until he does that he won't warrant consistent double teams. Schobel is a very good to great edge pass rusher but until he can come inside and show some power he won't be a top notch player......do it threw double teams like the elite DE's in this league, he does that and I will jump on the wagon. That's a good argument Mike, but it was better 5-10 years ago and I'm just not sure if it's accurate anymore. There are the occasional instances of Schoebel making plays inside (i.e. last Sunday when he powered through Pace and just pasted Faulk on a huge play inside our 5) but I think there are more factors than Schoebel's talent that make it such a rare occurence: -LT's are just so ridiculously f'ing big these days. Nobody beats them inside anymore simply because there's rarely enough room to do so. -With PhatPat and the Keg forming arguably the best DT combo in the NFL, I think the Bills rarely feel the need to run twists which would get Schoebel inside, nor do they want their Ends crashing down with power moves because of the high likelihood that they're just going to run into traffic. I think the rarity of Schoebel's inside moves are as much a result of the design of the Bills defense as they are anything else. -He doesn't see the doubles which often push Ends inside but nobody else really does either. I'm guessing this is a result of the huge increase in the size of LT's but seeing DE's doubled is becoming increasingly rare over the years. Not saying that it doesn't happen, or that other premeir Ends don't draw more than Schoebel; it's just that I think they're becoming a less common strategy as the league (d)evolves. -The Bills desire to steer the running game into the strenght of their defense (PhatPat, the Keg, Fletcher, Milloy) often has Scoebel playing a contain role on early or shortdistance downs. If he takes inside moves on thse downs, he destroys the integrity of the run D. Whether he's a very good or great DE is probably just picking nits at this point. And to tell you the truth I think our opinion of him is a lot closer than either of us realizes. I just know that at this point I'm very happy with his continued development and if he doesn't get any better (which would be the first time in his career he failed to improve) I'd still consider him a good option at that RDE spot (as well as the LDE where he keeps popping up on occasion). Cya
Simon Posted November 25, 2004 Author Posted November 25, 2004 Zach Thomas has a great motor - with too many miles on it - pass What he said. Although I'm intrigued by the idea of what he might look like being kicked outside and manning Posey's spot. Hey Bob, it hasn't even snowed over here yet. C'mon home!-)
Mikie2times Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 Whether he's a very good or great DE is probably just picking nits at this point. And to tell you the truth I think our opinion of him is a lot closer than either of us realizes. I just know that at this point I'm very happy with his continued development and if he doesn't get any better (which would be the first time in his career he failed to improve) I'd still consider him a good option at that RDE spot (as well as the LDE where he keeps popping up on occasion).Cya 133088[/snapback] I agree with that Simon. Sometimes on hear its hard to tell if somebody is agreeing or disagreeing by the way they word things. To get right down to the point I think Schobel is a very good player and expect him to keep improving. Like you said our views of him are probably much closer then this thread would indicate. Cue the sentimental wall music
Bear Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 Also I agree....where the hell IS Anderson? 133003[/snapback] This is the same situation we saw last year with Kelsay. Denney was starting all year, and everyone was saying...How bad can Kelsay be if Denney is starting over him?" This year, Kelsay has come on. Hopefully we get the same from Anderson next season. I still think we re-sign Pat to a friendly contract, and if so we would have a great 4 man rotation at DT. Those guys would be able to have top stamina throughout the game.
Coach Tuesday Posted November 25, 2004 Posted November 25, 2004 -LT's are just so ridiculously f'ing big these days. Nobody beats them inside anymore simply because there's rarely enough room to do so.-With PhatPat and the Keg forming arguably the best DT combo in the NFL, I think the Bills rarely feel the need to run twists which would get Schoebel inside, nor do they want their Ends crashing down with power moves because of the high likelihood that they're just going to run into traffic. I think the rarity of Schoebel's inside moves are as much a result of the design of the Bills defense as they are anything else. -He doesn't see the doubles which often push Ends inside but nobody else really does either. I'm guessing this is a result of the huge increase in the size of LT's but seeing DE's doubled is becoming increasingly rare over the years. Not saying that it doesn't happen, or that other premeir Ends don't draw more than Schoebel; it's just that I think they're becoming a less common strategy as the league (d)evolves. -The Bills desire to steer the running game into the strenght of their defense (PhatPat, the Keg, Fletcher, Milloy) often has Scoebel playing a contain role on early or shortdistance downs. If he takes inside moves on thse downs, he destroys the integrity of the run D. 133088[/snapback] Those are fair points, and for the most part I agree and I have found it increasingly difficult to find holes remaining in Schobel's game. That being said, there still appear to be games (1-3 already this year) where he seems to be completely ineffective because he's rushing past the play EVERY DOWN. You may be right that it's the scheme, not him freelancing, but if that's the case there is something wrong with the scheme. If I had to guess which games those are, I'd say probably the games against solid power-draw offenses (the Pats?), where Gray likes to rush the ends deep and keep the tackles in to squeeze the pocket and keep containment - in those situations, although Schobel might be playing an important role he does not seem to be making the impact a player of his caliber ought to be making. IMO we'd be better off in those circumstances rushing Posey or a d-back to squeeze the pocket and keep Schobel upfield to run around and make plays. Just a minor critique though - like you I find it difficult to find fault with anyone on this front 7.
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