Steely Dan Posted February 24, 2010 Author Posted February 24, 2010 Yeah, because in shape guys like Chris Ellis show all kinds of football character. IIRC, Pat Williams once proclaimed he had issues with eating right and maintaining his weight, but acknowledged he was able to do it with the help of Rusty Jones (the Bills S&C coach at the time). Jones worked with Pat and Jones was always looking to create diet/nutrition plans that not only helped players maintain their body condition, but appealed to their taste buds. I said it before in another thread, and I will say it again: given the right coaching staff, one that recognizes Cody will need extra attention and help, Terrence Cody will anchor somebody's DL for years to come. How do you know Ellis is in shape, and how does that change anything I said about Buddy Nix? Buddy Nix never drafted Ellis and had he been in the Bills draft room that year I doubt he would have. The skinny on Ellis coming out of college was he was lazy and it looks like that was hitting the nail on the head. Why would anyone draft a guy who needs that much attention? His bust factor is raised a lot by looking like that. I'm sure the trainers were trying to work with Mike Williams too and that didn't turn out so well. Marv Levy used to say that it wasn't his job to motivate players and Polian seemed to pick self motivated guys in his drafts. Wilfork isn't all that overweight, though he's big. You can make anybody look big by catching him on an in-breath or when he relaxes his stomach muscles. Cody looks now like Ted Washington did late in his career when he was beginning to lose his effectiveness. Washington was around 39. Cody is around 22. That's the difference. I can't remember Ted Washington ever looking like that.
Cynical Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 How do you know Ellis is in shape, Sorry, I must have missed all the reports and pictures from the past two years talking about how Ellis shows up for practice 'out of shape' and/or 'overweight'. and how does that change anything I said about Buddy Nix? Buddy Nix never drafted Ellis and had he been in the Bills draft room that year I doubt he would have. The skinny on Ellis coming out of college was he was lazy and it looks like that was hitting the nail on the head. You are right Nix would probably never draft Ellis, because Ellis took plays off. And speaking of Buddy Nix, JPS was correct. Nix said what the player did on the field would be determining factor. And if it is based on what Cody has done on the field, then Nix would be looking at drafting Cody. Cody has done nothing but dominate while playing. He did it in high school, he did it at the JUCO level, and he did it at 1A collegiate level. He does not take plays off when he is on the field. He has never missed a practice or had a shortened practice session due to his weight or any issue regarding his weight. During his time at JUCO and at Bama, there was never any reports, rumors, or speculations questioning Cody's attitude or motivation. Why would anyone draft a guy who needs that much attention? His bust factor is raised a lot by looking like that. I'm sure the trainers were trying to work with Mike Williams too and that didn't turn out so well. And Terrence Cody is not Mike Williams. Your entire perception of Terrence Cody is based on a single picture and a comparison to Mike Williams. Admit it. You know nothing of Cody's attitude, motivation, or character. And what a shocker, you prefer to make ridiculous accusations based on your limited knowledge instead of trying to learn more. Because if you had attempted to learn more, you would have found out regarding football, Terrence Cody has answered every challenge presented to him. Marv Levy used to say that it wasn't his job to motivate players and Polian seemed to pick self motivated guys in his drafts. You need to spend time learning and understanding the different concepts of motivation. Even Levy was more than willing to work with players that had issues. And once again, "overweight" does not automatically equate to "unmotivated" (despite your best intention to make it so).
mjohns85 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/football/...nce-cody-p1.jpg Get that man a Manzere. I can't call anyone who lets themselves get into that shape an athlete. I wouldn't take the guy in the 4th round even if he gets in shape for the draft. He obviously has no real ambition. JMO anybody else have a boner?
Thurman#1 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 this is probably more true then most want to admit -- remember at juco he was over 410 lbs, he just weighed in at 370 two years later. He has bounced up and down along the way but is trending towards the right direction. Hopefully thats a good sign. Also, losing atleast 40-50 lbs (honestly probably more then that) between his highest playing weight, and the ballpark he played at this year will cause things like sagging skin. My last point, this is a kid that grew up in a terrible environment, and probably didnt look at himself as an "athlete" until about 2 years ago. In that time he has lost A LOT of weight. Odds are he never had someone seriously teaching him things like nutrition, eating habits, workout systems. I have read interviews where he talked about learning things like making sure he eats breakfast to get the metabolism going, and doesnt eat late at night anymore. He's been an extremely successful athlete since high school. he knows he's an athlete. And taking the overall trend ignores the roller coaster nature of his weight gain and loss. His coach, Saban, told him he wouldn't play the pass downs until he got his weight down to 345. He never did, but he played last year at 355. Now, before the Senior Bowl, when he knows he will be weighed and photographed shirtless, he puts on 15 pounds in about one month. A huge red flag.
Thurman#1 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 You are right Nix would probably never draft Ellis, because Ellis took plays off. And speaking of Buddy Nix, JPS was correct. Nix said what the player did on the field would be determining factor. And if it is based on what Cody has done on the field, then Nix would be looking at drafting Cody. Cody has done nothing but dominate while playing. He did it in high school, he did it at the JUCO level, and he did it at 1A collegiate level. He does not take plays off when he is on the field. He has never missed a practice or had a shortened practice session due to his weight or any issue regarding his weight. During his time at JUCO and at Bama, there was never any reports, rumors, or speculations questioning Cody's attitude or motivation. You say Nix will only judge by what happens on the field? Well, I imagine that would include all the defensive plays where Cody had to be taken off for a blow, not to mention the fact that he wasn't ever included in their pass defenses so they could give him enough time off so he could be a factor. Never any reports, rumors, or speculations questioning Cody's attitude or motivation? Are you kidding? The only way you could say that is if you specifically define those words to exclude weight issues. Which is like saying that Travis Henry might be a good pickup because he hasn't had any on-field issues - you're excluding the whole point. Saban has been on his back from the beginning to get his weight down. Cody NEVER got down to his target weight. "Terrence Cody has answered every challenge presented to him." Just not true. He never got down to Saban's target weight. Cody wanted to play on pass downs, but couldn't do it because of weight issues. How you can say this guy doesn't have motivation issues, I don't understand. You have to wish for the best for the guy, but you also have to spend time wondering if you can deal with it if the worst happens.
manbeast Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/football/...nce-cody-p1.jpg Get that man a Manzere. I can't call anyone who lets themselves get into that shape an athlete. I wouldn't take the guy in the 4th round even if he gets in shape for the draft. He obviously has no real ambition. JMO Ted Washington played most of his career at 375-400 pounds.
iinii Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Babe Ruth hit over 700 home runs while being fat and drunk most of the time...just sayin.... now that is a training regimen
Steely Dan Posted February 25, 2010 Author Posted February 25, 2010 Sorry, I must have missed all the reports and pictures from the past two years talking about how Ellis shows up for practice 'out of shape' and/or 'overweight'. So lack of articles about him is your proof? I don't know how well he's conditioned himself, but neither do you. You are right Nix would probably never draft Ellis, because Ellis took plays off. And speaking of Buddy Nix, JPS was correct. Nix said what the player did on the field would be determining factor. And if it is based on what Cody has done on the field, then Nix would be looking at drafting Cody. Cody has done nothing but dominate while playing. He did it in high school, he did it at the JUCO level, and he did it at 1A collegiate level. He does not take plays off when he is on the field. He has never missed a practice or had a shortened practice session due to his weight or any issue regarding his weight. During his time at JUCO and at Bama, there was never any reports, rumors, or speculations questioning Cody's attitude or motivation. You are taking Nix too literally. If a guy cannot maintain his weight I'm sure that would enter into his decision making process as well as several other factors. And Terrence Cody is not Mike Williams. Your entire perception of Terrence Cody is based on a single picture and a comparison to Mike Williams. Admit it. You know nothing of Cody's attitude, motivation, or character. And what a shocker, you prefer to make ridiculous accusations based on your limited knowledge instead of trying to learn more. Because if you had attempted to learn more, you would have found out regarding football, Terrence Cody has answered every challenge presented to him. I'm basing my opinion on draft reports, here's one; (They have him rated as the 23rd best DT in the draft.) http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/draft/...ayers/8835.html Overall grade: 7.7 Position rank: 23 TERRENCE CODY MEASURABLES Height: 6-4 Weight: 370 40-yard dash: 5.77 10-yard dash: 20-yard shuttle: 60-yard shuttle: Broad jump: 225-lb. bench: 3-cone drill: Vertical jump: Wonderlic: 20-yard dash: Terrence Cody DT, Alabama War Room analysis Strengths: Is massive, with the size and strength to anchor at the point of attack against all types of run blocks. Flashes the ability to shed and toss blockers and make tackles on runs at him. Is instinctive; reads the play fast. Weaknesses: Is overweight and out of shape. Is not nearly as productive as the hype he receives would indicate. Lacks quickness, explosiveness and burst off the ball, making him a virtual non-factor as a pass rusher. Cannot shoot gaps to blow up running plays in the backfield. Lacks the athleticism to make plays outside the OG box. Does not use his hands consistently well to take on blockers; cannot shed and get free in time to impact the play when he doesn't use hands well. Does not protect his legs well from cut blocks and gets stopped in his tracks by them. Bottom line: Cody is one of the most disappointing players we have evaluated in recent seasons when compared to the hype he has received. He is way overweight and in bad shape, which limits his ability to move quickly and make plays outside of a very small area. Cody's draft status will probably go way down in the spring, when NFL evaluators' opinions of players start to dribble out to the media. Cody has the talent to be a much better player than he has shown on film, but to become that player he will need to lose at least 40 pounds and play with more passion and intensity on every snap. Do not be shocked if Cody ends up getting drafted in the seventh round by a team that plays a 3-4 scheme. He is not going to be drafted high because history says players who struggle with their weight in college usually have weight issues in the NFL, too. Even the scouting reports that have him listed as a first or second rounder say that he has a real problem maintaining his weight. Here's another link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2010NT.php Terrence Cody, Alabama - Scouting Report Height: 6-4. Weight: 370. Projected 40 Time: 5.50. Projected Round (2010): 1-2. 1/26/10: Terrence Cody weighed in at 370 at the Senior Bowl. This is a concern, but with quality nose tackles being so rare, Cody still has a shot at the first round. 11/20/09: Did a great job losing some weight this year and has shown more effort on the field. He's likely the only stud nose tackle who will be available this offseason, so even though he's only a two-down player, he'll be a hot commodity. 5/19/09: Terrence Cody has been accused of not being in shape and taking plays off, but he's still a first-round prospect; it's not like talented nose tackles grow on trees. 11/23/08: Terrence Cody said he's not declaring early, but once he discovers that he has a great shot at being drafted in the top 15, he could reconsider. Cody is a monstrous run-stuffer and should be a Kris Jenkins-like difference-maker at the next level. He's a two down player. IMO, a team should never spend a high draft pick on a two down player. Most draft people rate him first or second round talent but the history of the NFL is littered with first round draft busts. It's my belief this kid has bust all over him. I just don't think there is any reason to take a guy that early with those concerns. The Bills will be better off taking another guy at a different position with fewer questions. You need to spend time learning and understanding the different concepts of motivation.Even Levy was more than willing to work with players that had issues. And once again, "overweight" does not automatically equate to "unmotivated" (despite your best intention to make it so). I can't remember the Bills, during the Levy, Polian/Butler era, ever taking a guy that out of shape. He weighed 370 pounds at the combine. If the kid isn't ambitious enough to optimize his physical condition for the combine it's a very bad sign. JMO
CarolinaBill99 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Well, that's one positive example. How many negative examples are there by comparison? Actually, that is not true. Babe Ruth was only fat during the end of his career. In his prime, he was an all-star pitcher, home run leader and stole bases...Cody and Babe Ruth should not even be in the same conversation...
billsfan_34 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Babe Ruth hit over 700 home runs while being fat and drunk most of the time...just sayin.... Yeah, such a similar sport.
dorquemada Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Dreamland. Great BBQ place in Alabma. Must be eating too much of that! Tuscaloosa, where UA is, has the highest concentration of fast food places per capita - McFarlane Blvd! When I was there, 92-93, I grew me some nice moobs too. Dreamland rocks, you can get their sauce on line.
jangalang Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Anyone that says Cody didn't produce on the field is completely off-base. How else can you explain Alabama's 3-4 defense over the last 2 years being so successful? 2008 - 2nd in Rushing defense, 3rd in Total defense 2009 - 2nd in Rushing defense, 2nd in Total defense And for the record, these were Alabama's 2nd and 3rd years running the 3-4 scheme. Sound familiar?
Kingfish Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 I can't remember Ted Washington ever looking like that. In fairness how often was Big Ted photographed topless? I like to compare Cody's physique to BJ Raji's who is 340lbs and 2 inches shorter than Cody. http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/im...BC_03132009.jpg http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/apmegas...02-pf.widec.jpg Sure he looks bad but the Packers run defense went from 26th in 2008 to 1st in 2009. The Bills need a run stuffer and you won't find a better one than Cody.
Bob in STL Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 damn those are some C cups! D. Almost DD.
Bob in STL Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 So lack of articles about him is your proof? I don't know how well he's conditioned himself, but neither do you. You are taking Nix too literally. If a guy cannot maintain his weight I'm sure that would enter into his decision making process as well as several other factors. I'm basing my opinion on draft reports, here's one; (They have him rated as the 23rd best DT in the draft.) http://warroom.sportingnews.com/nfl/draft/...ayers/8835.html Overall grade: 7.7 Position rank: 23 TERRENCE CODY MEASURABLES Height: 6-4 Weight: 370 40-yard dash: 5.77 10-yard dash: 20-yard shuttle: 60-yard shuttle: Broad jump: 225-lb. bench: 3-cone drill: Vertical jump: Wonderlic: 20-yard dash: Terrence Cody DT, Alabama War Room analysis Strengths: Is massive, with the size and strength to anchor at the point of attack against all types of run blocks. Flashes the ability to shed and toss blockers and make tackles on runs at him. Is instinctive; reads the play fast. Weaknesses: Is overweight and out of shape. Is not nearly as productive as the hype he receives would indicate. Lacks quickness, explosiveness and burst off the ball, making him a virtual non-factor as a pass rusher. Cannot shoot gaps to blow up running plays in the backfield. Lacks the athleticism to make plays outside the OG box. Does not use his hands consistently well to take on blockers; cannot shed and get free in time to impact the play when he doesn't use hands well. Does not protect his legs well from cut blocks and gets stopped in his tracks by them. Bottom line: Cody is one of the most disappointing players we have evaluated in recent seasons when compared to the hype he has received. He is way overweight and in bad shape, which limits his ability to move quickly and make plays outside of a very small area. Cody's draft status will probably go way down in the spring, when NFL evaluators' opinions of players start to dribble out to the media. Cody has the talent to be a much better player than he has shown on film, but to become that player he will need to lose at least 40 pounds and play with more passion and intensity on every snap. Do not be shocked if Cody ends up getting drafted in the seventh round by a team that plays a 3-4 scheme. He is not going to be drafted high because history says players who struggle with their weight in college usually have weight issues in the NFL, too. Even the scouting reports that have him listed as a first or second rounder say that he has a real problem maintaining his weight. Here's another link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2010NT.php Terrence Cody, Alabama - Scouting Report Height: 6-4. Weight: 370. Projected 40 Time: 5.50. Projected Round (2010): 1-2. 1/26/10: Terrence Cody weighed in at 370 at the Senior Bowl. This is a concern, but with quality nose tackles being so rare, Cody still has a shot at the first round. 11/20/09: Did a great job losing some weight this year and has shown more effort on the field. He's likely the only stud nose tackle who will be available this offseason, so even though he's only a two-down player, he'll be a hot commodity. 5/19/09: Terrence Cody has been accused of not being in shape and taking plays off, but he's still a first-round prospect; it's not like talented nose tackles grow on trees. 11/23/08: Terrence Cody said he's not declaring early, but once he discovers that he has a great shot at being drafted in the top 15, he could reconsider. Cody is a monstrous run-stuffer and should be a Kris Jenkins-like difference-maker at the next level. He's a two down player. IMO, a team should never spend a high draft pick on a two down player. Most draft people rate him first or second round talent but the history of the NFL is littered with first round draft busts. It's my belief this kid has bust all over him. I just don't think there is any reason to take a guy that early with those concerns. The Bills will be better off taking another guy at a different position with fewer questions. I can't remember the Bills, during the Levy, Polian/Butler era, ever taking a guy that out of shape. He weighed 370 pounds at the combine. If the kid isn't ambitious enough to optimize his physical condition for the combine it's a very bad sign. JMO You did your homework. Thanks for the info. I still like him as a player on the field but your right, he is a gamble. College to NFL is a big jump and his work ethic and training habits will matter. Buddy will be making the call. I hope he finds us an NT that can contribute this year.
Bob in STL Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Babe Ruth hit over 700 home runs while being fat and drunk most of the time...just sayin.... Babe started out big and strong and became big and fat but still very strong. Babe's fat was minor in comparison to Cody. To be fair, an NT needs a lot of girth but Cody looks like someone who does not train. That will change in the NFL or he will be out in of it in 3 years. No doubt he can be wipped into better shape.
FLFan Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 In fairness how often was Big Ted photographed topless? I like to compare Cody's physique to BJ Raji's who is 340lbs and 2 inches shorter than Cody. http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/im...BC_03132009.jpg http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/apmegas...02-pf.widec.jpg Sure he looks bad but the Packers run defense went from 26th in 2008 to 1st in 2009. The Bills need a run stuffer and you won't find a better one than Cody. This is a bad comparison. BJ Raji was known in college to be very quick and powerful, a penetrator from the NT position, and racked up I believe 8 sacks his senior season. He had a great senior bowl as well. No one questioned his work ethic or dedication; his weight did not fluctuate. Raji is the real deal. Cody is trouble.
Mr. WEO Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Wow, a morbidly obese lineman has difficulty with his weight? Don't want a guy like that!! Let's instead fill our D-line with old, released vets......or a 225 pound rookie who had one decent season in college. Look, if this guy never took off his shirt, no one here would be questioning his draft value, or his ability to play (J peters was obviously over his listed weight when he showed up after his holdout). What did you people think he looked like under the shirt for chrissakes?
JohnC Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 This is a bad comparison. BJ Raji was known in college to be very quick and powerful, a penetrator from the NT position, and racked up I believe 8 sacks his senior season. He had a great senior bowl as well. No one questioned his work ethic or dedication; his weight did not fluctuate. Raji is the real deal. Cody is trouble. Your point is spot on about his work ethic and dedication. In college, even in the best football conferernce in the country, there is a big difference in playing against players who are not as strong and physically imposing as you are. Without very much techinique you can physically dominate the player you are going against. In the pros you are going against qualitatively stronger and quicker players. Would I reject Cody as a prospect? As a first round pick I certainly would, even if it was a lower first round pick. Would I take him in the second round? I would if I believed that he had it within him to dedicate himself to getting into reasonable shape and seemed like a person who cared about his football profession. Let's not minimize the risk in taking a player who hasn't worked as hard as he should in college. Alabama and a good number of teams in the SEC are professional operations. Their training and coaching staffs are very elite. If he wasn't receptive to the staff then I would have some hesitations in taking him early. The Bills are not an elite team. They can't afford risk players like some of the better off teams.
NoSaint Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 He's been an extremely successful athlete since high school. he knows he's an athlete. And taking the overall trend ignores the roller coaster nature of his weight gain and loss. His coach, Saban, told him he wouldn't play the pass downs until he got his weight down to 345. He never did, but he played last year at 355. Now, before the Senior Bowl, when he knows he will be weighed and photographed shirtless, he puts on 15 pounds in about one month. A huge red flag. Saying he has participated in sports and the he thought of himself as an athlete are two very different things. Maybe I am being to poetic in the story of Terrence Cody that I have in my head but I dont see him growing up in one of those Olympic families you are seeing on tv right now..... At 14 he was 6-2, 275 lbs. His father had died 2 years earlier, and he was at home in a drug infested neighborhood taking care of his 7 siblings while his mom worked a low income job. He didnt even play football until his junior(?) year of Highschool because of academic issues. When he got serious about wanting to play, he got academically eligible. Its hard to judge a 14 year old struggling in that situation. On to the weight issue -- young terrance is now 18, probably closer to 350 lbs. His Highschool coach has likely never coached someone quite like him. He goes home to eat an average dinner for a family of 8 on a single income.... and what do we have tonight? seared ahi on a bed of lettuce with a lowfat dressing? probably more like a big mac, supersized fries and coke, 2 apple pies, and a bowl of ice cream after? Afterwards I doubt it was realistic for him to say wow, i should really go out and go for a run -- again, 7 siblings, dead father, mother working to support the family and a dangerous neighborhood, and that big mac is probably weighing him down. Did Terrence hear from his coaches at HS and College "hey terrence, maybe if you slim down, we can put you at defensive end" or was it "terrence you a big ol boy, look how good you clog up the middle of that line cause your so big." On a friday night with friends did they look at him funny when he ate a whole pizza, or was that expected of big ol Mt Cody, and he was made fun of when he ordered a salad and diet coke for dinner? Is the weight gain this offseason cause for concern? yea, it does worry me. At the same time you have to wonder how many 410 lbs people lose weight in a strictly linear fashion. I imagine it is far more common to lose 20 gain 10 lose 15 gain 10 lose 20 gain 5. There is no denying that he has had an unhealthy relationship with his body. Like I said, he has come out in interviews and said he LEARNED things that most consider basic when he got to Alabama. Things like eating breakfast, not eating late night snacks. In that time he dropped from a peak reported weight of 410 at JUCO to a playing weight of 355 last year. That is a 55 lbs loss in 2 years. Read that again -- 55 lbs loss in 2 years. Yes, he didnt make it to 345, which would have been a 65 lbs loss in 2 years. Keep that loss in mind when you look at that picture and see loose and sagging skin from that 410 body as well. As for the 15 lbs put on -- I imagine it was probably easy for him to finish the season, go home and pick up a few of those bad habits. Eating things he shouldnt, maybe skipping a few workouts, no longer having practice every day of the week. When you get to be that big, a 15 lbs jump isnt the same as it is for a 180lbs person. Cause for concern? yes. but lets see what he looks like for the combine, for his proday, see if this is a trend back to 400, or if its like I think and that weight loss will not be linear for a 410 lbs person. Especially without tools like bypass surgery. Goals he has hit -- Becoming eligible to play highschool, becoming eligible to play D1 by going to JUCO, hitting 380 for his scholarship, hitting 365 for playing time. He did not make it to 345 though, you are right. I know that things like being academically eligible and not being 410 lbs should be a given, not an accomplishment, but once your on the wrong side of either of those it is really hard to fix. Hence everyone is so skeptical looking at him today at 370. Can he do it? well, so far he has been.
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