Been giving this a lot of thought....and I am a OL guy and

[John from Riverside]

Annnnd the first time he gets blind-sided by a safety blitzer coming untouched and then severely concussed like Edwards was in Arizona...he might start to think, wtf am I doing here and begin running for his life.

 

Its a gut feel

 

THat is going to happen even if you draft a offensive linemen with every pick in this draft.....

 

The question is will Bradford have the fortitude to get up and keep plugging along......I think he would.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

I was a bit confused by this. Which philosophy do you support? If you really think that 40% or more of first round pick QBs sit their first year I need to see the stats. Even if you are within 20%, what is REALLY of relevance is how many QBs drafted in the top 10 picks sit. I have kept asking this question over and over and over and noone can provide an answer. In the last number of years what top 10 QB other than Phillip Rivers has not started by sometime in his rookie year?

 

You can't use the example of late first round QBs to predict what will happen with early first round pick QBs. Those slots are night and freaking day. We are probably talking several million a year between say #9 and #32. Money, on the high pick, dictates that they play. End of story.

Ultimately the real question comes down to the individual and one's assessment of that player. One can easily site multiple examples of individuals like Harrington (a #3 loser at QB) or Tom Brady (a 6th round winner at QB) to provide an example which supports various thoughts.

 

The key to me is that as long as the Bills are looking for one savior (be it a QB or whomever) and not instead working on a strategy that builds a winning TEAM we are likely to be simply depending on luck and chasing rainbows,

 

As far as the QB choice the things which I think are rules we should set for ourselves with our team and this draft are:

 

1. DO NOT TRADE UP- This team has too many needs for us to even further concentrate our hopes and dreams into one player by giving up the likely first day choice or so needed to move up from #9. Thus team badly needs a franchise QB, AND also will need to get a quality starter (actually two) at OLB since we are switching to the 3-4.

 

The OL also badly will need another talent as we are both young and have holes on the OL.

 

The 3-4 move actually relieves raw player need for # of DLs but the type of bodies and style of play of the current DL with the Schobel wildcard may necessitate getting another talented DL player.

 

The TO situation likely creates a need for a #2 but the cap room to make this an FA choice,

 

At any rate giving away a first day resource and dedicating the 1st rounder to a none trench need would likely have serious ramifications.

 

2. Trading up to get Bradford or Clausen is a pretty likely need to get them.

 

3. The large # of needs has to make us pretty risk averse- The only likely reason Bradford might fall to us are questions about his twice injured shoulder. If this is a real risk that scares others quite frankly we should be twice as scared.

 

4. QBs can hit it as rookies but they generally do not. the thing Sanchez/Flacco/RoboQB share in common is not some QB capability but that each had teams around them which could carry them. This Bills team is not gonna carry their QB (unless it is too the hospital after the young OL gets bulldozed.

 

My GUESS is that if the Bills were to get Clausen or Bradford that it will take a bout a half season until the WGR/Sully whiny fan machine simply runs this youngster out of town for putting up results similar to what the rookie Peyton Manning produced for Indy his rookie year.

[PDaDdy]

THat is going to happen even if you draft a offensive linemen with every pick in this draft.....

 

The question is will Bradford have the fortitude to get up and keep plugging along......I think he would.

 

 

First of all if we draft the right guys we can easily go a long way to fixing our o-line. That is partially due to the fact that it is currently SO bad that almost any help would be a vast improvement. LOL.

 

 

On Bradford, I would have to strongly disagree. Haven't we learned anything from the past and his two shoulder issues?

[Bring Back Kelly]

Over the last couple of years, A QB would usually slide down the draft board, but not this year. Those two guys will be gone by 9

[John from Riverside]

First of all if we draft the right guys we can easily go a long way to fixing our o-line. That is partially due to the fact that it is currently SO bad that almost any help would be a vast improvement. LOL.

 

 

On Bradford, I would have to strongly disagree. Haven't we learned anything from the past and his two shoulder issues?

 

So we are going to base injury likelyhood off of one year?

 

I think he played some years before that. One year is not the way to make a evaluation in that area.

 

Also....lets keep in mind that the drafting to improve this line started happening LAST year with the additions of Levitre and Wood....its not like we are drafting for all 5 positions.

[PDaDdy]

This Bills team is not gonna carry their QB (unless it is too the hospital after the young OL gets bulldozed.

 

 

Says it all.

[PDaDdy]

So we are going to base injury likelyhood off of one year?

 

I think he played some years before that. One year is not the way to make a evaluation in that area.

 

Also....lets keep in mind that the drafting to improve this line started happening LAST year with the additions of Levitre and Wood....its not like we are drafting for all 5 positions.

 

 

Yes I do believe he played for years before that and I believe that he had a shoulder problem the previous year.

 

Yes we did start drafting to improve the line last year but we are far from done and we created as many problems as we fixed. We traded our probowl LT and got rid of pretty decent RT when we found out that the lifetime big ugly road grader, not surprisingly, didn't have nimble enough feet or the athleticism to play LT. We then did the smart thing and didn't address either of those positions in FA or the draft.

[thewildrabbit]

THat is going to happen even if you draft a offensive linemen with every pick in this draft.....

 

The question is will Bradford have the fortitude to get up and keep plugging along......I think he would.

Fortitude has nothing to do with a severe concussion, even the toughest players succumb to a concussion.Big Ben missed games, Brian Westbrook missed games this season and neither of those two were hit as hard as Edwards was, concussion problems have ended many many players careers.

 

To be honest about it...it wasn't just the Bills O line overall. It was the total offensive scheme, if you notice that Marc Bulger still gets pummeled in St Louis in the Mike Martz scheme.

 

Bad offense, bad scheme, bad protections, rookie O line coach...

 

Lets face facts, overpaid FA O-linemen didn't work before in Buffalo, and I doubt it will work again... so the only recourse is the draft.

That #1 pick should be on an O linemen, preferably a left tackle as that position trumps all needs. It should have been addressed last season instead of wasting the pick on Maybin.

[Guest dog14787]

Fortitude has nothing to do with a severe concussion, even the toughest players succumb to a concussion.Big Ben missed games, Brian Westbrook missed games this season and neither of those two were hit as hard as Edwards was, concussion problems have ended many many players careers.

 

To be honest about it...it wasn't just the Bills O line overall. It was the total offensive scheme, if you notice that Marc Bulger still gets pummeled in St Louis in the Mike Martz scheme.

 

Bad offense, bad scheme, bad protections, rookie O line coach...

 

Lets face facts, overpaid FA O-linemen didn't work before in Buffalo, and I doubt it will work again... so the only recourse is the draft.

That #1 pick should be on an O linemen, preferably a left tackle as that position trumps all needs. It should have been addressed last season instead of wasting the pick on Maybin.

 

 

Even tried no huddling the madness to really make things interesting...

[Thurman#1]

You guys are F'ed in the head to want another new QB to get pummeled around before he can even learn the system.

 

First it was Bledsoe the Vet...then J.P. the 1st rd draft pick... then Trent Edwards, the guy who Bill Walsh stated would be a very good QB... AND THE BILLS HAVE RUINED HIM!!!!!!!!

Then it was Fitz the vet, then Brohm the Packers practice squad guy.

 

Don't you guys get it... the ONLY way the Buffalo Bills will ever be decent on offense is to build a great O line! The ONLY way to build a great O line is to start with the most important position LEFT TACKLE, then right tackle, then another guard.

 

I's be willing to bet that once Chan Gailey takes a hard look at what he has for O linemen he will draft to fill those positions, at least I hope so.

 

 

Fine, so if the line is all that terrible, then you sit the new QB for a year. This will only help him be ready when we need him. No problem.

 

We're not going anywhere this year no matter who we pick.

[Pete]

Try giving writing comprehension a shot. If you don't remember what you typed an hour ago you need to grow something more than a brain stem or cut back on your meds!!!!!

 

If you were just speaking about hypothetically taking the #3 DT in a ficticious strong Dline class vs the #1 LT in a fictitious weak oline class ....WHO CARES!!!!!! Thanks for your brilliant insight Sherlock. Perhaps instead of copping attitude you should get a clue how to express yourself in the written word so that people get your point. Or, how about make a point that is worth making?

yes, you need to learn reading comprehension, especially before you start personal attacks.

"I agree with the lines- meaning that I agree we need help on both sides of the line. Until we fix the oline, drafting a QB is retarded IMO

 

But don't reach for need if our scouts are not sold on them. BPA, not need for the 1,001 time

 

I would rather have the #3 rated DT in a draft class very deep at DT then the #1 rated LT in a very weak LT draft class. I want players that will be quality players for the Bills the next 5-10 years. Not some #1 rated LT who will be a turnstile then out of the league in 3 years."

I thought you could understand this statement, but perhaps I am overestimating you. No where do I state that this is a weak draft at oline. Au contraire.

 

Did someone piss in your cornflakes this morning?

 

Look, we have been drafting for need the past decade. The proof is in the pudding. This team has been mediocre at best this millenium. You can stick with that asinine philosophy, or you can learn from it and start stockpiling talent on this team. I will choose the later, thank you

[Thurman#1]

<-----Take a long look at my avatar and notice the hole Thurman Thomas had to run thru, It is one of the reasons as to why the Bills were so dominate in the early 90's. Bill Polian built a solid O line that had mostly the same players for years, it is called "continuity".

Something Dick Jauron was clueless about because the players on the O line changed every year under him. This last year he changed every player at every position, and traded away the only good player and pro bowler on the line. That is the reason the Bills had the worst O line in the NFL in 09.

 

The Bills under Jauron and Mularkey tried to "fix" the O line by bringing in high priced free agents and for whatever reason they didn't pan out. Whether it was the poor conditioning, the injuries, the rookie O line coach. Free agents tend to get "Paid" and then slack off, at least the Bills O line players did.

 

Jauron should have drafted for the O line his first year as HC instead of his last,he was hell bent on drafting for the defensive secondary. If they had drafted O line the last four years the Bills might just have an line similar to the NY Jets.

 

Can you imagine what Jackson and Lynch could do with that NY Jet O line to block for them, not to mention the QB would actually have some time to throw.

 

 

Nobody disagrees that we need to build a good OL and that it needs to build continuity. Including TBD. Drafting Wood and Levitre early last year shows that they finally get this.

 

But without a good QB you aren't going to win a SB, the only exception being if you build one of the all-time great Ds, like the Ravens SB winners and the Bears SB winners. And that's just extremely unlikely statistically speaking.

 

We aren't winning this next season. We won't be a really good team till 2011 or more likely 2012. That's a painful realization to come to, but when you have no LT, no QB and are switching defenses, you just have too many needs to reasonably expect to compete.

 

And though good LTs are extremely difficult to find, good QBs are even more so, and it takes longer to train them and longer to find out whether or not they'll be any good. So anytime you have a chance to get a franchise QB, you absolutely have to take it.

 

Again, I certainly don't disagree that we are in dire need of a good LT. I am on record (to the point of nausea to many) as having desperately wanted to keep Jason Peters for exactly this reason. A good LT isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. But good QBs are harder to find and take much longer to develop. If we can get one, we have to do it.

[RuntheDamnBall]

You really consider any one of those guys "serviceable"?!?!

 

The Bills have really only had aONE top flight QB since the merger, JIM KELLY. A first rounder. They have only chosen 2 first round QB's in that time. Kelly and Losman. QB, more than ever, is the MOST IMPORTANT PLAYER ON A TEAM. Maybe if the Bills had chosen more 1st round QB's through the years, we might not have had to sit through all the embarrassing seasons. They missed ONCE with a 1st rd. QB, but with the other pick it was "GLORY DAYS".

 

Once you have "the guy" he should be around for 10 years or so, plenty of time to build up a line. They have failed with SO MANY 1st picks, that I don't see why anyone thinks it would be a catastrophe if they miss again. You gotta have one.

 

For the 1000th time, if a guy is worthy, it's still going to take a few years before a QB is going to be seasoned enough to win regularly. You can fix the other stuff while the QB sits a year, etc. Get a QB in here as soon as possible. Even if they spend a first pick on a quarterback THIS YEAR, we are still likely gonna have to sit through watching one of those "serviceable" QB's this coming season. Then the next year the guy gets it together, THEN the next season, IF WE"RE LUCKY, he will get into the playoffs. That's 2 more drafts and free agencies before the team needs to be a "complete" team.

 

Pick 7 QB's! I don't care, they are going NOWHERE without a good QB, don't try to tell me they need a Nose Tackle more than they need a Quarterback!

They need a Nose Tackle more than they need a QB. A young QB is not going to magically make the offense better and in fact he might just struggle as much as our past QBs did last year. He will need time. He won't have time if his defense is on the field getting gashed by the run, and he won't have time if he has a couple of trafffic cones at the tackle positions.

[Thurman#1]

Yes I do believe he played for years before that and I believe that he had a shoulder problem the previous year.

 

 

 

I believe you believe wrongly. Bradford was healthy the previous year.

 

Here is the game log for that year. Can you point out where he missed any time?

 

http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/gamelog?play...4&year=2008

 

Can you find anything about Bradford's shoulder in 2008, not 2009?

[Thurman#1]

Ultimately the real question comes down to the individual and one's assessment of that player. One can easily site multiple examples of individuals like Harrington (a #3 loser at QB) or Tom Brady (a 6th round winner at QB) to provide an example which supports various thoughts.

 

The key to me is that as long as the Bills are looking for one savior (be it a QB or whomever) and not instead working on a strategy that builds a winning TEAM we are likely to be simply depending on luck and chasing rainbows,

 

As far as the QB choice the things which I think are rules we should set for ourselves with our team and this draft are:

 

1. DO NOT TRADE UP- This team has too many needs for us to even further concentrate our hopes and dreams into one player by giving up the likely first day choice or so needed to move up from #9. Thus team badly needs a franchise QB, AND also will need to get a quality starter (actually two) at OLB since we are switching to the 3-4.

 

The OL also badly will need another talent as we are both young and have holes on the OL.

 

The 3-4 move actually relieves raw player need for # of DLs but the type of bodies and style of play of the current DL with the Schobel wildcard may necessitate getting another talented DL player.

 

The TO situation likely creates a need for a #2 but the cap room to make this an FA choice,

 

At any rate giving away a first day resource and dedicating the 1st rounder to a none trench need would likely have serious ramifications.

 

2. Trading up to get Bradford or Clausen is a pretty likely need to get them.

 

3. The large # of needs has to make us pretty risk averse- The only likely reason Bradford might fall to us are questions about his twice injured shoulder. If this is a real risk that scares others quite frankly we should be twice as scared.

 

4. QBs can hit it as rookies but they generally do not. the thing Sanchez/Flacco/RoboQB share in common is not some QB capability but that each had teams around them which could carry them. This Bills team is not gonna carry their QB (unless it is too the hospital after the young OL gets bulldozed.

 

My GUESS is that if the Bills were to get Clausen or Bradford that it will take a bout a half season until the WGR/Sully whiny fan machine simply runs this youngster out of town for putting up results similar to what the rookie Peyton Manning produced for Indy his rookie year.

 

 

 

Good post. I hear you.

 

But for QBs, you have to have one. If either Clausen or Bradford is the one that Nix wants then trading up would be worth it. The Giants traded up for Manning and won a Super Bowl and the clever Chargers who traded down and still got their guy and extra picks haven't.

 

If either QB (I'd assume it would be Clausen, but that's just my opinion) is the guy, trading up would just be the price you have to pay. This is a rebuilding team. And a QB is building block number one.

[Thurman#1]

They need a Nose Tackle more than they need a QB. A young QB is not going to magically make the offense better and in fact he might just struggle as much as our past QBs did last year. He will need time. He won't have time if his defense is on the field getting gashed by the run, and he won't have time if he has a couple of trafffic cones at the tackle positions.

 

 

Drafting a good QB ABSOLUTELY DOES magically make the offense better. Just not in the first year or two. Three or four years down the road, having a good QB really does have magical results. And we aren't going to be a good team this year anyway.

 

Waiting till we have a good offense and then drafting a QB has two major problems. One, by that time you usually haven't got a high enough draft pick to get a decent QB. And two, your offense is getting older and wasting time as the QB develops. QBs usually don't arrive all that quickly.

[Pete]

Drafting a good QB ABSOLUTELY DOES magically make the offense better. Just not in the first year or two. Three or four years down the road, having a good QB really does have magical results. And we aren't going to be a good team this year anyway.

 

Waiting till we have a good offense and then drafting a QB has two major problems. One, by that time you usually haven't got a high enough draft pick to get a decent QB. And two, your offense is getting older and wasting time as the QB develops. QBs usually don't arrive all that quickly.

who is a good QB to draft?

 

Did you feel JeMarcus Russell was a good QB? Matt Leinart? Brady Quinn? John Beck? ......

[Thurman#1]

I agree, obviously, with the get the o-line in place first. The problem with the get the SUPPOSED franchise QB first crowd is that they all pretty much 100% say let the guy sit on the bench while we put together the line later. To which I always reply THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN TODAY'S NFL ANYMORE.

 

 

Aaron Rodgers.

 

They knew they couldn't play him when they drafted him, yet they picked him in the first. It would be nice if we proved ourselves as smart as the Packers did.

[John from Riverside]

I am just wondering what the board reaction is going to be when we draft Baluga and he gets beat some this year and whatever scrub QB is back there gets hit this year as well.

 

Probably another board meltdown on how much our line sucks.

 

Its going to take patience whatever way we go with that 1st pick......

[Thurman#1]

Levi Jones? I watched every play last year for the Redskins. He sucked....Nothing left in the tank. He got beat like a drum and looked worse than Mike Williams. If Levi Jones is your answer to fix our OL woes, please get a frontal labotomy and start watching curling reruns on sundays.

 

 

Agree. Levi Jones was actually one of the only three tackles in the league rated below Demetrius Bell, though to give him his due, Bell was below him when he got injured. It took Jones a few extra weeks to accumulate an even worse score than Bell.

 

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1