Fezmid Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 And again, just because they had a hearing doesn't mean anything. And if it were REALLY a hearing, I would agree with you. But it wasn't - it was a chance for Congress to B word slap Toyota, nothing more. Nobody there was asking questions, they were leading a witch hunt to burn the company down, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Don't you have some gay muppets to attack? And again, just because they had a hearing doesn't mean anything. And because they aren't union jobs? What about the jobs within the supply chain for automakers? Are they all union for GM? No. Do you make crap up as you go or do you purposely lie? Don't answer I know the response. Looking at GM's suppliers, here is the union status of the companies: Vitec - union shop Piston Group - ? Dealo Steel - union Flex-N-Gate - union The Bing Group - union Btw that is just the chassis and body suppliers for GM. 4 out of 5 for sure are union shops and the 5th one I am unable to determine. Looks to me like the supplier are union as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Do you make crap up as you go or do you purposely lie? Don't answer I know the response. The answer is neither. He thinks what he is told to think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 If the government would just get out of the car business, this witch hunt wouldn't be much of an issue. But they are too arrogant for that. Its like having NFL refs owning 60% of the Dolphins. Either give up your part of GovMotors or have no say in this. I guess its ok for this adm though...they make up the rules as they see fit. The all govt's should get out of their auto businesses. Namely Japan. Japan should stop artifically controlling the yen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 TOO and it is a witchhunt. Only you with your blinders on do not see that. It seems to be a witch hunt. Yet, there have been very real problems at Toyota for almost 20 years. Those problems were getting swept under the rug. It is more like "piling on." Again, there are very real engineeering issues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Japan should stop artifically controlling the yen. Substitute America with Japan and yen with dollar, and we would agree on something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 And again I'll point to the "sudden acceleration issue" that Audi "had" in the 80s. How do you explain that one? That was corrected. One can no longer take a car out of park WITHOUT stepping on the brakes first. That safety feature came out of the Audi fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Substitute America with Japan and yen with dollar, and we would agree on something So you are saying we are to blame? We want Japan to dump their imports on us? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 So you are saying we are to blame? We want Japan to dump their imports on us? ?? No I said if you substituted those two words we would agree on something. Not related to the topic at hand, but it would be something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 That was corrected. One can no longer take a car out of park WITHOUT stepping on the brakes first. That safety feature came out of the Audi fiasco. So they just made it idiot proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 That was corrected. One can no longer take a car out of park WITHOUT stepping on the brakes first. That safety feature came out of the Audi fiasco. And it was Audi's fault for not implementing a feature that hadn't been invented yet. So they just made it idiot proof. Build a more idiot-proof mousetrap, and the world will build a bigger idiot - who'll probably drive an SUV ten under in the passing lane while on the cell phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 It seems to be a witch hunt. Yet, there have been very real problems at Toyota for almost 20 years. Those problems were getting swept under the rug. It is more like "piling on." Again, there are very real engineeering issues here. Oh I don't disagree that there seems to be some issues. However, the "piling on" and the witch hunt would have never happened if the US government was into the car business and the admin into proping up unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Build a more idiot-proof mousetrap, and the world will build a bigger idiot - who'll probably drive an SUV ten under in the passing lane while on the cell phone. Brawndo has electrolytes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Brawndo has electrolytes You're just jealous because pBrain got his law degree at Costco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 You're just jealous because pBrain got his law degree at Costco. True. And to be fair I have to admit that pb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 So they just made it idiot proof. Exactly. Same thing with standards. Remember when a vehicle with stick would crank over with the vehicle in gear and your foot NOT on the clutch? What would happen? Hint: One would probably fly into their garage door... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 And it was Audi's fault for not implementing a feature that hadn't been invented yet. No not at all. Something positve came of the Audi thing. Wasn't the Audi crashes happening at a standstill? This Toyota thing is legit. Sure people are piling on looking for the deep pocket... That is a given. I am not sure what the mechanics are on these new vehicles... But they are not cables like the old days. We have electric carts at work and we fequently need new potentiometers that control the accelarator... In matter-of-fact, I just one of those 200 dollar buggers last week. Toyota may uses potentiometers??: Potentiometers vs. Hall Effect Senors "...In general, automotive engineers have to chose between two electronic methods of obtaining the driver’s accelerator pedal input: Hall effect or potentiometer. Hall effect sensors work by amplifying the tiny current created in a wire when a magnetic field passes by, and generally have zero moving parts. Potentiometers on the other hand depend on a sliding contact which varies the resistance over the circuit. Potentiometers are known to fail, Hall sensors are not. However, it is a little more nuanced than that. Hall sensors are extremely reliable binary sensors (on/off), used to do things like tell if the crankshaft is (or is not) at TDC. Also, using the Hall effect to measure continuously variable position requires considerably more complex circuit design. This typically is done with an array of sensors and an amplification circuit contained into one IC. Regardless of what implementation you choose as an engineer, you have to anticipate device failure, in this case a deviation between the interpreted and actual pedal positions. More circuit or mechanical complexity leads to more failure modes, some of which may not be clear to the engineer. If one of these failure modes is detected (note my emphasis!) then you have to force the engine into either limp mode or full idle. All e-gas vehicles (to my knowledge) include this check, although implementation differ. If you can’t detect the failure OR protect the operator from deviation, your device fails. So you better be able to do this 100% of the time..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Also, I forgot to paste/highlight this from the article: "...The devil is in the details though. Hall needs there to be a fairly large magnet in there, and due to the "distances from the pedal to the ECU you need a dedicated amplification circuit at the pedal to prevent noise overcoming the weak signal. I know Toyota has two redundant Hall position sensor sets (the pictures clearly show this). I do know that in both pedals there is only one magnet. I do not know if Toyota chose redundant ICs for the circuitry in the pedal. Basically, you have two redundant circuits reporting the position of the same magnet! Electrically redundant, kinda. I would say not redundant at all as a matter of fact. So the glaring failure mode here is if your magnet becomes entrapped or broken from the pedal assembly. Toyota's pedal design does not account for this type of failure. It is also impossible to tell without destroying a pedal whether they are using independent ICs, and if they are not there is a second unaccounted for failure mode (failure in the amplification circuit). So there you have it. The VW implementation uses a sensor that will not last forever, but is in all other conceivable (and inconceivable) ways protected from deviations from operator request. The Toyota implementation uses a zero maintenance sensor, but is not mechanically (or even electrically) redundant and does not account for undetected deviations from operator request. I will leave it to the reader to decide whether it is safe to roll the dice and get into a Toyota. I personally will not get into one of these vehicles again, and recommend all my relatives think twice. Toyota should recall all of their e-gas vehicles and implement Brake Priority, which is a simple ECU flash that should take less than 15 minutes per car." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 Do you make crap up as you go or do you purposely lie? Don't answer I know the response. Looking at GM's suppliers, here is the union status of the companies: Vitec - union shop Piston Group - ? Dealo Steel - union Flex-N-Gate - union The Bing Group - union Btw that is just the chassis and body suppliers for GM. 4 out of 5 for sure are union shops and the 5th one I am unable to determine. Looks to me like the supplier are union as well. And all of that proves NOTHING. Oh wait a minute, there were some back room meetings where the UAW and other unions worked with Dems in the HOPES that Toyota would F up so that they could give them a black eye with the public. Of course, screwing over workers who are non-unionized within their districts. Give me a freakin' break. And please STOP with your conspiracy theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 You're just jealous because pBrain got his law degree at Costco. Again, go attack the those muppets you claim are gay and pushing their gay tendencies on our children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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