Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 You know Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan and Timmy Chong all put up monstrous stats in college and all can't even cut it in the CFL. Stats aren't everything. I think that was discussed in the article regarding gimmicky systems.
Doc Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 There is no way in hell Brohm is better than Bradford or Clausen. The guy had his chance to become the backup to Aaron Rogers but he couldn't beat out a 2nd stringer. When GB took Brohm he had a legit shot. They didnt know of Rogers would be worth a damn so they too, Brohm in the 2nd round. Bottom line he is another backup scrub that has no business trying to start inthe NFL What have Bradford or Clausen proven in the NFL? Nothing, and they'd be rookies this year. As for Brohm, he was drafted by the Packers in 2008, which was the year Rodgers became the starter and had an excellent season. Rodgers had 3 full years in the NFL prior to that season, versus Brohm having the off-season. So Brohm had NO shot at being the starter, in reality. Sure he lost-out on the backup role to Flynn, but when the Bills came calling, the Packers were quick to match the Bills' offer, but Brohm wanted to go where he'd have a chance to start, and that wasn't going to be GB.
Kevin Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Funny Ryan and Flacco were first round picks and have done good, Brohm can't beat out 7th stringers for a roster spot. Yeah, damn him for not beating Aaron Rodgers for the starting QB roll.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 What have Bradford or Clausen proven in the NFL? Nothing, and they'd be rookies this year. As for Brohm, he was drafted by the Packers in 2008, which was the year Rodgers became the starter and had an excellent season. Rodgers had 3 full years in the NFL prior to that season, versus Brohm having the off-season. So Brohm had NO shot at being the starter, in reality. Sure he lost-out on the backup role to Flynn, but when the Bills came calling, the Packers were quick to match the Bills' offer, but Brohm wanted to go where he'd have a chance to start, and that wasn't going to be GB. FYI Doc, Darth has already admitted in another thread that he knows nothing about Brohm other than we got him off GB's practice squad. So good luck trying to discuss it rationally with him, he is on a Brohm crusade for some reason even though giving him a shot presents this team with no risk as we have hardly nothing invested in him. I believe as much as anyone this team needs a QB. I whole heartedly know that QB isnt Trent or Fitzy, just not enough talent. However, now that we have Brohm I no longer want to see us go QB in round 1. Whats the piont? We have a first round talent prospect already in Brohm without the first round price tag and 2 years under his belt and a half season with the Bills already. Its no secret we need a LT, so it makes WAY WAY more sense to address LT or maybe defensive front 7 depending who is available at #9 than to go QB in round 1. Especially since all the QB's in this draft all have major question marks themselves. Let Brohm compete for the job with Fitz or a vet we bring in and see what he can do. Worst case scenario we address QB next year in the high rounds if he doesnt show enough to keep developing him. Better yet would be if we could bring in someone like McNabb for a few years and let Brohm groom behind him. If he doesnt show enough in the next season or two then we can take a QB in the draft then to be the successor to say McNabb. But, if we dont get McNabb (which we probably wont as I think he stays in Philly) then bring in some Vet to keep the seat warm until Brohm is ready.
Kevin Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I would be all for Bradford. My biggest fear is putting him behind this OL. They need to solidify the OL first, unfortunately.
The Wei 44 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Would be interesting to see how the author's statistical analysis evaluates top QBs over past 5-10 years - I'd be "sold" if those two college stats predict success on a widespread basis.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The guy is a bust because nobody in the league wanted him in September when Green Bay waived him. Sorry, but I have a lot more respect of the opinions of some of the top professional talent evaluators in the business than I do of any amateurs on this board, you and myself included. If he has such a "big arm" why do scouting report after scouting report, including the one that is the basis of this thread downgrade his arm strength? The Green Bay wanted him stuff is getting pretty old-they didn't think enough of him to not offer him for free to anyone who wanted him back in September. Just because they offered to match the Bills 2 year deal as an insurance policy late in the season doesn't indicate any real interest in keeping him as anything but a guy who knew their offense. They always had 3 QBs around this year & after the guy who replaced Brohm on the practice squad signed with Stl, they signed another guy to the PS who was later signed to the winter roster. Nobody with your premise has ever been able to answer a question I've posed, please try: If Green Bay was so high on Brohm, why didn't they try & exceed the Bills offer in both years & dollars? The Packers only tried to keep their 2009 insurance policy in place, nothing more as evidenced by their lack of making Brohm an offer that would have kept him away from the Bills. You're right, we have for pennies, but I would hardly call a guy that the finest football minds in the business all passed on putting a waiver claim on as a guy with great upside. The worst thing that the Brohm advocates do is settle for mediocrity. Brohm is ok to keep around as a player who you can pencil in as your #3 QB next year, but if we go to camp with him having any shot at the starting job, then team management has failed us, the fans, and Ralph Wilson the owner, by not acquiring a QB who really has an upside, or is a proven veteran. To go into next August with a camp of Fitzpatrick, Brohm, Edwards or a mid-round pick & possibly Hamdan is too sickening to even realistically think about. I trust that Buddy will not do that & will make a bold move to get a QB that is not just someone else's trash. First of all you clearly have no clue what a bust is if you can label a player who has started one game a bust. Secondly, nobody in the league wanted Brady either...he fell to the 6th round. Teams passed on him 6 times. Nobody wanted Kurt Warner either...I can go on and on with examples of this...So, whats your point with that? I mean, Bill Walsh also loved Trent Edwards, Jim Drunkenmiller and JJ Stokes...how did they turn out? So clearly the great football minds dont always get things right. Not to mention when Brohm was put on PS it was right when the season was about to start when teams were already set at QB. Do you even know how difficult it would be for a second year QB to come in at the start of the regular season on a new team and be relevant? Next to impossible...which is exactly why GB waited so long to put him on PS to try and stash him. They had no room on the active roster for 3 QB's and it almost worked. A second year QB with ZERO experience and no offseason on a new team is not going to beat out their current backups. So he would have just been another PS player while he learned the system of a new team anyway. As far as his arm is concerned, most people spouting off on his arm strength (including lame media types) dont really know much about him. Going into the draft, it was reported (and since has been recapped in articles about Brohm sine he joined Buffalo) that he was second to only Flacco in arm strength at the combine and not by much. And to address your question about why GB didnt try and exceed Buffalos offer...why on earth would they? They are already set at QB with a young top 5 QB in Rodgers and a young backup they love. So why would they want to pay a 3rd string QB more than their current 2nd string QB? They have way more needs than paying for a player dont need just to keep him from Buffalo. Not to mention, Brohm would have turned it down anyway knowing full well he will never be a starter in GB with Rodgers there who looks to be a dominant QB for years to come.
Hanoverbills Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The guy is a bust because nobody in the league wanted him in September when Green Bay waived him. Sorry, but I have a lot more respect of the opinions of some of the top professional talent evaluators in the business than I do of any amateurs on this board, you and myself included. If he has such a "big arm" why do scouting report after scouting report, including the one that is the basis of this thread downgrade his arm strength? The Green Bay wanted him stuff is getting pretty old-they didn't think enough of him to not offer him for free to anyone who wanted him back in September. Just because they offered to match the Bills 2 year deal as an insurance policy late in the season doesn't indicate any real interest in keeping him as anything but a guy who knew their offense. They always had 3 QBs around this year & after the guy who replaced Brohm on the practice squad signed with Stl, they signed another guy to the PS who was later signed to the winter roster. Nobody with your premise has ever been able to answer a question I've posed, please try: If Green Bay was so high on Brohm, why didn't they try & exceed the Bills offer in both years & dollars? The Packers only tried to keep their 2009 insurance policy in place, nothing more as evidenced by their lack of making Brohm an offer that would have kept him away from the Bills. You're right, we have for pennies, but I would hardly call a guy that the finest football minds in the business all passed on putting a waiver claim on as a guy with great upside. The worst thing that the Brohm advocates do is settle for mediocrity. Brohm is ok to keep around as a player who you can pencil in as your #3 QB next year, but if we go to camp with him having any shot at the starting job, then team management has failed us, the fans, and Ralph Wilson the owner, by not acquiring a QB who really has an upside, or is a proven veteran. To go into next August with a camp of Fitzpatrick, Brohm, Edwards or a mid-round pick & possibly Hamdan is too sickening to even realistically think about. I trust that Buddy will not do that & will make a bold move to get a QB that is not just someone else's trash. I don't understand Green Bay. They had Aaron Rodgers, How many years backing up Farve? Yet they didn't have enough faith in Rodgers that they had to draft a QB in the second round, the first year that Rodgers was going to be they're starter. Yet, look how good a qb Rodgers turn out to be. You think that after three years being there backup QB, They would know what they had.
PromoTheRobot Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Wait, let me just restate that last post one more time: Career 67.6% Comp. Perc.; 8,403 yards; 88td; 16int; 175.6 rating.Let it sink in. Bradford = 30 starts 67.4% LeFevour = 53 STARTS!! 66.7% 3 MAC titles 2 Bowl wins 2006 MAC Freshman of the Year 2006 All-MAC first team selection 2006 Honorable mention Freshman All-American by Sporting News 2006 Academic All-MAC honoree 2006 MVP of the Motor City Bowl 2007 USA Today Player of the Week 2007 MAC Offensive Player of the Year 2007 MVP of the MAC Championship Game 2007 All-MAC first team selection 2008 All-MAC second team selection 2009 MAC Offensive Player of the Year 2009 All-MAC first team selection 2009 Elite Quarterback Performer, College Football Performance Awards 2009 Elite National Performer, College Football Performance Awards 2009 MVP of the MAC Championship Game 2010 MVP of the GMAC Bowl 2010 Senior Bowl North team most outstanding player Now THAT'S impressive. PTR
Conch Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Funny Ryan and Flacco were first round picks and have done good, Brohm can't beat out 7th stringers for a roster spot. Brohm couldn't beat out the Pacs 7th rounder but he can beat out the Bills 3rd rounder (TE), our last 1st rounder (JPL), and is as good if not better than our starter, Patrick fits Ryan. So what's your point. He is an upgrade for this team. Players adjust differently and many don't get it till year three or so. Didn't Brees suck his first two years and that's why SD drafted Rivers? Give the guy a chance but draft and pick up FA's in case he doesn't work out.
JPS Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 The guy is a bust because nobody in the league wanted him in September when Green Bay waived him. Sorry, but I have a lot more respect of the opinions of some of the top professional talent evaluators in the business than I do of any amateurs on this board, you and myself included. If he has such a "big arm" why do scouting report after scouting report, including the one that is the basis of this thread downgrade his arm strength? The Green Bay wanted him stuff is getting pretty old-they didn't think enough of him to not offer him for free to anyone who wanted him back in September. Just because they offered to match the Bills 2 year deal as an insurance policy late in the season doesn't indicate any real interest in keeping him as anything but a guy who knew their offense. They always had 3 QBs around this year & after the guy who replaced Brohm on the practice squad signed with Stl, they signed another guy to the PS who was later signed to the winter roster. Nobody with your premise has ever been able to answer a question I've posed, please try: If Green Bay was so high on Brohm, why didn't they try & exceed the Bills offer in both years & dollars? The Packers only tried to keep their 2009 insurance policy in place, nothing more as evidenced by their lack of making Brohm an offer that would have kept him away from the Bills. You're right, we have for pennies, but I would hardly call a guy that the finest football minds in the business all passed on putting a waiver claim on as a guy with great upside. The worst thing that the Brohm advocates do is settle for mediocrity. Brohm is ok to keep around as a player who you can pencil in as your #3 QB next year, but if we go to camp with him having any shot at the starting job, then team management has failed us, the fans, and Ralph Wilson the owner, by not acquiring a QB who really has an upside, or is a proven veteran. To go into next August with a camp of Fitzpatrick, Brohm, Edwards or a mid-round pick & possibly Hamdan is too sickening to even realistically think about. I trust that Buddy will not do that & will make a bold move to get a QB that is not just someone else's trash. If I am not mistaken, when you claim someone off waivers, you assume his contract, which might have been tough for some teams to absorb in early September, after all of their tough decisions have been made. I think this is a great thread. Our debates will not determine this kid's path, but the pre-draft scouting report does give some reason for optimism. Hey we have less info on Brohm than TE and the door is not completely closed on TE. How can it be closed on Brohm??
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I don't understand Green Bay. They had Aaron Rodgers, How many years backing up Farve? Yet they didn't have enough faith in Rodgers that they had to draft a QB in the second round, the first year that Rodgers was going to be they're starter. Yet, look how good a qb Rodgers turn out to be. You think that after three years being there backup QB, They would know what they had. GB drafted Brohm because they thought him the BPA at that point in the draft. Favre was turning 38 in 07 and Rodgers had completed his 2nd NFL season of not playing behind #4. It just so happens that Rodgers is one of the top QB's in the NFL after being an apprentice for 3 seasons. Still, for GB to miss on Brohm in the 2nd is alarming, especially because an unheralded 7th round pick beat him up. Draft equity being what it is, when a 7th beats a 2nd, that's not good. And then Mr. Exception chimes in and says it doesn't matter where someone is drafted and cites Brady, Warner, Romo. But check where the majority of the starting QB's were taken. You guessed it, the first round or second rounds.
JPS Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 GB drafted Brohm because they thought him the BPA at that point in the draft. Favre was turning 38 in 07 and Rodgers had completed his 2nd NFL season of not playing behind #4. It just so happens that Rodgers is one of the top QB's in the NFL after being an apprentice for 3 seasons. Still, for GB to miss on Brohm in the 2nd is alarming, especially because an unheralded 7th round pick beat him up. Draft equity being what it is, when a 7th beats a 2nd, that's not good. And then Mr. Exception chimes in and says it doesn't matter where someone is drafted and cites Brady, Warner, Romo. But check where the majority of the starting QB's were taken. You guessed it, the first round or second rounds. Checked stats. About 20 starting QBs drafted in 1st or 2nd round with 9 QBs drafted in the top 10 (10 if you call J Russell a starter)
stinky finger Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 So did Roethlisberger. I wonder how that worked out for Pittsburgh... Oh, well.....Ben has won 2 SB's and.....wait.................never mind.
Tcali Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Funny Ryan and Flacco were first round picks and have done good, Brohm can't beat out 7th stringers for a roster spot. just the man for our bills
BillsVet Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Checked stats. About 20 starting QBs drafted in 1st or 2nd round with 9 QBs drafted in the top 10 (10 if you call J Russell a starter) The likelihood of finding a quality starting QB outside the top two rounds is slim. There are always exceptions, but it's rare for a guy to come out of the 3rd round and below or via the UDFA ranks. Of the NFL starting QB's in 2009, I count Warner, M. Hasselbeck, Bulger, Delhomme, Romo, Orton, Cassel, Gradkowski, Schaub, Garrard, Edwards/Fitzpatrick, and Brady as the only signal callers who were acquired below the 2nd round. And I'd say only 2-3 of those guys are quality. In contrast, from 1999-2008, 93 QB's were taken in rounds 3-7. And yet, in 2009, only Brady and Schaub are what I would consider dependable or better QB's. That's not a good ratio if you're looking to find a QB below round 2. I'm not going to review UDFA signings for the same period, but if Warner and Romo are the only examples, I'm sure they're in the minority as well. QB's taken - Draft History
MaineMoxie Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 yes, i know. i'm saying it's just a consideration, that's all. Level of competition in ACC >> MAC. hard to argue against that. It wasn't just Roethlisberger though. The MAC has a history of turning out NFL QBs, particularly in the past decade: Chad Pennington and Byron Leftwich (Marshall was in the MAC when he played there) were long-time starters and Charlie Frye and Charlie Batch are decent back-ups (note: I'm not even sure the Bills possess a decent back-up). A few other MAC QBs have gotten NFL paychecks (Drew Willy, Bruce Gradkowski, Omar Jacobs, etc.).
sharper802 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I'm ok with Addressing the lines in the first few round and then picking him up in a mid/later round. Agreed!
sharper802 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Wait, let me just restate that last post one more time: Career 67.6% Comp. Perc.; 8,403 yards; 88td; 16int; 175.6 rating.Let it sink in. Jason White - went undrafted - also won some trophy that starts with the letter H YEAR 2003 YDS 3846 CMP% 61.6 TD 40 INT 10 Rating 158.1 YEAR 2004 YDS 3205 CMP% 65.4 YPA 8.22 TD 35 INT 9 Rating 159.42 If White goes undrafted and never plays in the NFL with just slightly less production I don't see how Bradford is a first round pick playing for the same team in the same system against the same competition. Just say no to Bradford and his glass shoulder.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 GB drafted Brohm because they thought him the BPA at that point in the draft. Favre was turning 38 in 07 and Rodgers had completed his 2nd NFL season of not playing behind #4. It just so happens that Rodgers is one of the top QB's in the NFL after being an apprentice for 3 seasons. Still, for GB to miss on Brohm in the 2nd is alarming, especially because an unheralded 7th round pick beat him up. Draft equity being what it is, when a 7th beats a 2nd, that's not good. And then Mr. Exception chimes in and says it doesn't matter where someone is drafted and cites Brady, Warner, Romo. But check where the majority of the starting QB's were taken. You guessed it, the first round or second rounds. News flash to this debate...Flynn is not a STARTER...he is a second string QB to Rodgers, so this whole argument going on about draft round status with starters is irrelevant. All this came up because Flynn beat out Brohm for the backup role when they were both rookies. That does not equate to Brohm being a bust, it simply means in their rookie years they had to pick one who they felt was more ready to play IF Rodgers went down as it was 100% clear going into the offseason Rodgers was the starter. Actually, that argument would favor Brohm as being a hot prospect to be a starter based on what you said about draft rounds since he was taken in the second. Brohm admitted he didnt adjust that first year to the speed of the game as quickly as he would have liked. But many QB's (which is the single most complicated position in all of sports for rookies) dont have success in their first years (almost always because of the speed of the game) which is why the traditional way to bring a young QB along is to let him sit for a year or two, sometimes 3. But everyone wants to make a big deal of Flynn adjusting faster and being chosen as the immediate backup to Rodgers when they were both rookies. I can name a list of solid to great QB's (including this years Super Bowl winner) who didnt fare too well in their first couple of seasons. And people can say what they want about Flynn being a 7th rounder, but that by know means makes him a bumb, especially since GB loves him and thought so highly of him they risked losing their second round QB on the PS in preference of him. And as far as the "majority" goes in terms of where the starting QB's were taken (again, totally irrelevant to this discussion anyway since Flynn isnt even a starter)...by no means is finding a QB beyond the second round or as an UDFA a "rare" occurence as you try and make it seem with your majority comment. Sure, there may be more starters in the NFL that were drafted in the first 2 rounds, but by no means is it rare to find a good QB beyond round 2 or as UDFA considering they make up about 1/3 of the starters in this league and a lot of backup positions. Not to mention, some of those early round starters playing right now are total bumbs on their way to career backup status like J. Russell, Quinn, etc.
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