Move a Buffalo church (the entire building) to Atlanta

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010...-churches_N.htm

[ajzepp]

Wow, that's not too far from me...I'll have to go check it out once the move is completed.

[HopsGuy]

David Franczyk, president of the Buffalo city council, has a message for the Georgia parish: "Build your own church. We have enough vacant lots."

 

Mr. Franczyk probably wants to convert the church to a living space for service workers like Alice. Officer Obie is concerned this could lead to rampant garbage dumping.

[MarkyMannn]

Mr. Franczyk probably wants to convert the church to a living space for service workers like Alice. Officer Obie is concerned this could lead to rampant garbage dumping.

 

East side of Buffalo has dozens of beautiful vacant decaying churches. If moving one saves it, move more of them

[Tcali]

Mr. Franczyk probably wants to convert the church to a living space for service workers like Alice. Officer Obie is concerned this could lead to rampant garbage dumping.

got any 8x10 color glossy photos of that church?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.ajc.com/news/norcross-congregat...alo-305194.html

[BuffaloBill]

East side of Buffalo has dozens of beautiful vacant decaying churches. If moving one saves it, move more of them

 

 

It is a sad reality and statement. My wife and I went to mass at magnificent catholic church in Montreal on a trip there. It was nearly empty so you would have to wonder about its fate.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buff...ory/957183.html

[Beerball]

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buff...ory/957183.html

Idiot is well meaning but misguided, a not uncommon state of being for WNY pols.

[Just Jack]

New article from the AP...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100529/ap_on_.../us_church_move

[Marv's Neighbor]

We coulda thrown in the Aud and the Rockpile to sweeten the deal.

 

Maybe we could move the Ralph to a more suitable location?

[ExiledInIllinois]

First the Comet to GA, now this... Where is General Sherman when you need him!

[Just Jack]

ABC World News covered this tonight.

[boyst]

When are we ever going to tax the churches? I find it amazing that the Catholic Church is able to pay off the bribes, payments, settlements and such to mollestation victims and families and still have money to do this. If the US Gov. needs to learn anything about business it needs to take some pages from the Vatican, the worlds most successful and longest running business/government.

[ExiledInIllinois]

When are we ever going to tax the churches? I find it amazing that the Catholic Church is able to pay off the bribes, payments, settlements and such to mollestation victims and families and still have money to do this. If the US Gov. needs to learn anything about business it needs to take some pages from the Vatican, the worlds most successful and longest running business/government.

 

Can they?

 

Debate

 

"The U.S. Supreme Court stated in Lemon v. Kurtzman in 1971 that non-taxation of churches is undergirded by “more than 200 years of virtually universal practice imbedded in our colonial experience and continuing into the present.” Here is why: There is a distinction between constitutionally separate “sovereigns.” For one sovereign entity to tax another leaves the taxed one subservient to that authority. This is true both in the symbolic statement of paying the tax and in the practical effect of supporting the sovereign party. So, in our constitutional structure, states may not tax each other, and they may not tax property of the federal government. The District of Columbia does not tax the property owned by foreign governments, and New York does not tax the property owned by the United Nations.

 

So, too, churches in America are not subservient to the government. The First Amendment to the Constitution requires that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The Constitution prevents the government from wielding its authority to control churches. Churches in this way differ from all other businesses and organizations. They are a unique institution whose existence is not derived from government authority, nor even from governmental acknowledgment. Churches preceded the birth of our nation and will remain long after its death. They transcend geographic and ethnic boundaries."

Anyway... I think the Catholic Church is the largest landowner in BFLO.

[LeviF]

Can they?

 

Debate

 

"The U.S. Supreme Court stated in Lemon v. Kurtzman in 1971 that non-taxation of churches is undergirded by “more than 200 years of virtually universal practice imbedded in our colonial experience and continuing into the present.” Here is why: There is a distinction between constitutionally separate “sovereigns.” For one sovereign entity to tax another leaves the taxed one subservient to that authority. This is true both in the symbolic statement of paying the tax and in the practical effect of supporting the sovereign party. So, in our constitutional structure, states may not tax each other, and they may not tax property of the federal government. The District of Columbia does not tax the property owned by foreign governments, and New York does not tax the property owned by the United Nations.

 

So, too, churches in America are not subservient to the government. The First Amendment to the Constitution requires that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The Constitution prevents the government from wielding its authority to control churches. Churches in this way differ from all other businesses and organizations. They are a unique institution whose existence is not derived from government authority, nor even from governmental acknowledgment. Churches preceded the birth of our nation and will remain long after its death. They transcend geographic and ethnic boundaries."

Anyway... I think the Catholic Church is the largest landowner in BFLO.

I think you're missing something. You do know what churches give up in order to be tax-exempt, right?

[The Senator]

I attended the last mass at St. Gerard's on New Year's Day, 2008 - quite a tearful thing to 'de-consecrate' and close such a beautiful old church - Fr. Mazur, a fairly burly, tough-looking man, was in tears, and I admit that my own eyes also 'welled-up' several times...

 

St. Gerard's Parish - Bailey Ave - Lost January 1, 2008

 

 

I have mixed feelings about the whole deconstruction/relocation thing. I hate to see Buffalo lose such a magnificent architectural masterpiece, and it'd be fairly typical - in Buffalo - for the Diocese, a few years from now, to say, "Hey, the neighborhood is turning around and experiencing a renaissance - we need to build a new church there!"

 

Still, I'm mindful of what abandonment followed by years of neglect and desecration did to the East Side's beautiful

 

Transfiguration Church

 

 

MarkyMann is right - Buffalo's old East Side is littered with these decaying, once architectural-gems. And, as part of his parish downsizing scheme - 'Journey in Faith and Grace' (aka 'Journey of Deceit and Disgrace') - Buffalo's buffoon-Bishop, Eddy Kmiec, closed a slew of these magnificent structures without ever even once setting foot on the properties or considering their history or their fate, once closed.

 

So, if shipping St. Gerard's - stone-by-stone - to Norcross, GA for the benefit of parishioners there will prevent the mindless destruction of this once-magnificent house of worship, so be it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by The Senator

[boyst]

I think you're missing something. You do know what churches give up in order to be tax-exempt, right?

Please elaborate on this?

[The Senator]

I think you're missing something. You do know what churches give up in order to be tax-exempt, right?

Paying taxes?

[LeviF]

Please elaborate on this?

 

 

Paying taxes?

LBJ isn't my favorite president, but I'll give him this: he was a crafty politician.

 

Ever since the Johnson Amendment to the tax code (1954), churches are not allowed to directly or indirectly support candidates for office. Punishment can be meted out if a government official hears a pastor (or other religious leader) violating this section of the tax code.

 

So, it works well both ways. We get freedom from religion, and they get free exercise of religion.

 

Also: it's interesting to note that even before the Johnson Amendment, churches were tax-exempt. LBJ just had a vendetta against non-profits