thebandit27 Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 I would tend to disagree on Schobel. If anything I think this might make it more likely that he stays. Schobel finally had his first good year since 2006. I don't think that it is health or effectiveness that could be driving him to retire. If anything I would say it was frustration with the organization, coaching and the schemes that Buffalo has run. I would guess we keep Kelsay or Denney as a back up or rotational DE. Whichever is cheaper in my mind. I don't see it happening. There are some guys that can be fit into different schemes, but Schobel simply isn't one of them. He's not cut out to be a 3-4 OLB, and--although he does play well against the run--he's a poor fit (at best) as a 5-technique. He's effective in a 4-3 because he's sized perfectly (245-260 lbs), can line up on the outside shoulder of the LT, can hold the point of attack, can set the edge off the snap, and can chase plays down the line. To play 5-technique, he needs to be able to anchor, tie up blockers, and seal gaps in the running game...it's just not his forte'. In the same sense, to play OLB in a 3-4 requires a quick-twitch athlete that can rush out of a 2-pt. stance, drop quickly into coverage, read and react to play fakes and delays, and pursue between the OT and the sideline...also not really Schobel's strength. I think he's a great player; very good pass rusher and plays well against the run. He will play DE for someone next season, but it's hard for me to invision it being in a (primarily) 3-4 alignment.
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 I don't see it happening. There are some guys that can be fit into different schemes, but Schobel simply isn't one of them. He's not cut out to be a 3-4 OLB, and--although he does play well against the run--he's a poor fit (at best) as a 5-technique. He's effective in a 4-3 because he's sized perfectly (245-260 lbs), can line up on the outside shoulder of the LT, can hold the point of attack, can set the edge off the snap, and can chase plays down the line. To play 5-technique, he needs to be able to anchor, tie up blockers, and seal gaps in the running game...it's just not his forte'. In the same sense, to play OLB in a 3-4 requires a quick-twitch athlete that can rush out of a 2-pt. stance, drop quickly into coverage, read and react to play fakes and delays, and pursue between the OT and the sideline...also not really Schobel's strength. I think he's a great player; very good pass rusher and plays well against the run. He will play DE for someone next season, but it's hard for me to invision it being in a (primarily) 3-4 alignment. Schobel hasn't weighed as much as 245 in years. Matter of fact I believe there is an old buffalobills.com article where he played under 240 most of the time. Facts like these that escape people kill me. Everyone says that Maybin was too light to play DE. True he is probably better for linebacker but it isn't because of his weight he weighs more than Schobel does. It just doesn't make sense. As a rush linebacker and pass rushing specialist I really don't think Schobel's primary function would be to anchor and tie up LTs. Someone else posted this in some other thread but take a look at this article about the various forms of 3 - 4 and 4 -3. A 5 technique plays on the outside shoulder of the LT. This is not an anchor and tie up blockers position. A "4" 2 gap technique possibly but not a 5. http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php
JStranger76 Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 Right on PDaDdy, Jason Taylor played his entire career at 240. Both Ravens DE's played the Super Bowl between 236-238. Many other ends play well below 250. It's just a lot cooler to list them at 260-270 I guess. Too many around here are enamoured with weight and have no clue about leverage and technique. Some guy always tries to bring up Schobel having his 14.5 sack season at 265, but let me clear that up, he had already been playing at 243 when he had that 14.5 sack year.
truth on hold Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 charles haley couldnt have been more than 250 either
NoSaint Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 Don't panic. Check the signature. Im just not sure how we can expect cody to fill that role every down, when he doesnt even do that in alabama right now. If we go with cody he cant be relied upon as a 3 down player. Next problem, what if cody, or whoever we bring in gets injured? who is the backup NT. As thats the anchor of a 3-4 front 7, its important to have more then 1 person that can go.
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 Im just not sure how we can expect cody to fill that role every down, when he doesnt even do that in alabama right now. If we go with cody he cant be relied upon as a 3 down player. Next problem, what if cody, or whoever we bring in gets injured? who is the backup NT. As thats the anchor of a 3-4 front 7, its important to have more then 1 person that can go. Well if the Bills front office was dumb enough to only keep one NT on the entire roster that would indeed be a problem. Fortunately they will probably be smart about it and get a free agent NT to compete with Cody in camp and rotate with him like they do with other over sized NTs.
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Well if the Bills front office was dumb enough to only keep one NT on the entire roster that would indeed be a problem. Fortunately they will probably be smart about it and get a free agent NT to compete with Cody in camp and rotate with him like they do with other over sized NTs. So do you propose anyone in particular?? It's a legit question. Cody is a rotational player, not a stud NT-- atleast yet. If he reaches best case and plays 50% of the snaps, at a serviceable level (he's still a rook) who is playing the other half. It's a tough position to fill, and by saying Cody is the guy, it simply isn't full yet.
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 I guess what I'm getting at is the example in your sig is -- get cody and we are good to go :: This may not be the personnel lineup some envision but it would mean we only need one additional body to play NT. This Would give us a ridiculous amount of run stuffing beef up front. Maybin and Schobel would play in more space and would be free to go completely nuts attacking the QB from the left, the right or both sides. Realistically, it's 2 NTs that we agree we need, and I don't see schobel switching -- does anyone see him covering a TE on a seam route? He just doesn't have the speed, or the hips. Regardless, say he makes the change -- who's depth at lb? At de? The 3-4 switch is not a bring in one man transition, even in it's best case. If we hit 50% on switching DEs to OLB we need about 4-5 players in the front 7 to field a serviceable team for a season. The front 7 is made up of far more then 7 players, and we are stretching to find those. Imagine if we pick up an injury, say a guy doesn't make the transition, a rookie doesn't play great out of the gate. If everything falls PERFECT -- no injuries and everyone transitions, Cody turns into a 3-down player, your front 7 looks average at best anyway. It features a rookie, and 4 people switching to new positions -- not to mention poz and Mitchell in the middle which isn't even a given for success (do you want either one taking on a lineman? Ever?) I like the 3-4 but we are much closer to a very good 4-3 with our guys.
BuffaloBlood Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 AT least this 3-4 switch will make FA and the draft intresting. You have to believe that we are going to have a good amount of roster change. Whether its good or bad change remains to be seen but it should at least give us something to talk about here.
DFL Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 i"m not sure if this has been discussed as I am not reading through the previous 7 pages, but, Shawn Merriman? SD connection, is/was on the outs w/management there...thoughts?
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 So do you propose anyone in particular?? It's a legit question. Cody is a rotational player, not a stud NT-- atleast yet. If he reaches best case and plays 50% of the snaps, at a serviceable level (he's still a rook) who is playing the other half. It's a tough position to fill, and by saying Cody is the guy, it simply isn't full yet. Also, what are the Bills giving up to get Cody, by most accounts he is not worth the number 9 selection, but it is unlikely he will be there at 41. And is a 2 down player worth either pick?
Jeffery Lester Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Has already said he's probably more suited to a 3-4 than a 4-3 you don't throw double digit sack guys out the door Amen. That and the fact he's woed 25million fish on his contract. Schobel is not going anywhere for anything less than a 2nd round draft pick. If he is traded. I can not see him retireing. He might be the one forceing Buffalo to move to the 3-4 defense. I think he will be a monster in the 3-4. He is a good football player, who makes plays for the Bills. I think Schobel is going to make a lot of Bills fans happy this year.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 i"m not sure if this has been discussed as I am not reading through the previous 7 pages, but, Shawn Merriman? SD connection, is/was on the outs w/management there...thoughts? Does Buffalo have a budding porn industry? Might be hard for Merriman's girlfriend to continue her career as a mattress test pilot.
DFL Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Does Buffalo have a budding porn industry? Might be hard for Merriman's girlfriend to continue her career as a mattress test pilot. ok... so its completely out of the range of possibility? i dont know.
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Amen. That and the fact he's woed 25million fish on his contract. Schobel is not going anywhere for anything less than a 2nd round draft pick. If he is traded. I can not see him retireing. He might be the one forceing Buffalo to move to the 3-4 defense. I think he will be a monster in the 3-4. He is a good football player, who makes plays for the Bills. I think Schobel is going to make a lot of Bills fans happy this year. Is that based off anything in particular? Not trying to be rude with the comment either -- I just don't have memories of schobel covering a TE, slot receiver, or rb down the field. There's more then just rushing the passer as a olb. Can he play man? Read zones? Living out of market I don't see as much as I'd like but I don't recall anything to make anyone think he can do that????
12Kachy Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Great, now the Bills have to find three more LBs to compete.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 ok...so its completely out of the range of possibility? i dont know. I forgot the
JPicc2114 Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 BB.com is reporting that the switch to 3-4 is official (but that Edwards plans to be flexible in his approach). Assuming that's true, what does that mean for our current roster? Seems like a lot of changes are in store. Here are a few I can think of: We need a NT. Williams (our best defensive player IMO) cannot man the nose in a 3-4. Spencer Johnson and Stroud probably can alternate at RDE, and I guess Schobel (or Schobel's replacement?) man the LDE spot, but we really don't have an ideal player there, either. At linebacker, Maybin obviously takes his hand off of the ground. Poz and Mitchell man the MLB spots? Not so sure about that one... Other changes/observations? Kyle Williams would be a solid 3-4 defensive end
bananathumb Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Kyle Williams would be a solid 3-4 defensive end Possibly. But if Johnson and Stroud can play there and we get someone like Casey Hampton to play NT on running-downs, Williams could move to the nose on passing downs. So, DE: Stroud, Williams, Johnson, Kelsay NT: Hampton, Williams, McCargo Wouldn't be wonderful, but no worse than last year with Schobel and Kelsay on the ends.
Adam Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 ha! Yea if you want to get run on all game. Most NT's don't play every down. I think he could better handle the later downs, but he isn't incompetent. Jamaal Williams is very banged up and I don't see him a being able to help all that much. We need a major infusion on our front seven- and it has to start on the line. Good, fast LB's are worthless if they aren't protected.
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