PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Great....that means we have yet another coach who plans to make his favorite scheme fit the personnel rather than the other way around. Basically means K Williams is expendable as is Kelsay and probably Schobel who at 32 yrs old has to play a position he has never played before. Trading or obtaining a huge NT in FA would be imperative if we do make the switch. As stated before there is not another team in the NFL who is less prepared personnel wise to make the switch to a 3-4. People here seem to be obscessed with the 3-4 when we have nowhere near the personnel to run it. You could not pick a worse sceme for this personnel unless they have absoolutely defined their goals in terms of who they want in FA or will trade for. But when you do NOT have the most important part of the 3-4 on your roster that makes it VERY difficult. They may want V Wilfork but their is no guarantee. Maybe we could have Ron Edwards just like KC....how did that work out for them? Don't panic. I think minus one Terrence Cody that we already have the personnel needed to play the 3-4/4-3 hybrid. Remember George Edwards said we would "start out" in a 3-4. To me it seems that we are going to the next evolution of the defense which the Saints currently play which is the 3-4/4-3 hybrid. We would be perfect for that imo. Check the signature and imagine that lineup on the field. If we get even better talent....then we get even better results.
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Agree with you so far except Schobel at RE still, Stroud at LE with Johnson spelling them. Unsure about Williams as well. Maybe he could be the 2nd wave NT but I'm really not too sure.... no way can he be a NT I think he could play DE there is no one on our roster that can play the middle in the 3-4 and Schobel stays its as a LB on the outside.
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Poz isn't big enough for middle linebacker in a 3-4, at least IMO. If you think he is getting destroyed in the middle now, just think of how it will work with a small front 3. Cody wouldn't be bad, but remember how awful he looked during the senior bowl weigh in. Williams is too small for a DE and Stroud himself believes that he wouldn't fit well as a DE. Small front 3? DUDE....do you realize that Cody, Stroud and Williams are all over 300lbs? Do you realize their combined weight is over a 1/2 ton (+1000lbs)?
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I think it means that LB just became a bigger priority than it was. Last year we were converting safeties and pulling free agents off the streets to play LB after injuries. That has to move the LB position to a higher spot on the draft board I would think, maybe right behind QB and Left Tackle. Does that mean that Williams, Stroud and the other guys up front will move to Nose Tackle or does it mean they may be moving out? I think Williams is quick enough for the move, not sure if he is big enough to stuff the middle by himself though. Actually Maybin and Schobel would be 3-4 LBs but we need depth.
LaDairis Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Small front 3? DUDE....do you realize that Cody, Stroud and Williams are all over 300lbs? Do you realize their combined weight is over a 1/2 ton (+1000lbs)? Substitute Rosie O'Donnell for Williams and its 1400+ Gosh, wouldn't that be awesome!!!
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 !!!!! 3-4 / 4-3 HYBRID HERE WE COME !!!!! I don't think we need that much of an overhaul. To me the switch to a 3 - 4 means this should/could be our starting LB and DL line up: DLINE Marcus Stroud at DE Terrance Cody at NT (Rookie) Kyle Williams at DE LB Aaron Schobel at OLB (Pass rush specialist) POZ at MLB Mitchell at MLB Aaron Maybin at OLB (Pass rush specialist) This may not be the personnel lineup some envision but it would mean we only need one additional body to play NT. This Would give us a ridiculous amount of run stuffing beef up front. Maybin and Schobel would play in more space and would be free to go completely nuts attacking the QB from the left, the right or both sides. Secondary stays the same maybe trading Whitner in for any kind of draft pick or depth player and letting George Wilson start with Byrd. McGee and McKelvin at CBs not sure who will play NT but everything else is right on the money.
tennesseeboy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 That would be nice. That means no OL or QB at 9 though and thats cool, but, only if NT is taken care of before the draft. This is a great idea because our defense will be onthe field most of the game with our qb on his ass during the various 3 and outs from not having an offensive line. Changing the defense drastically is a great idea and kind of reminds me how Hansen retired when Greggo decided the defense had to meet his 4-3 scheme. I imagine it will be the final straw to Schobel retiring but what the hell. This is such a great idea. This draft and the next should be devoted to getting the personnel to switch to a 3-4 and getting a closer look at Maybin in a position he might conceivably not be such a dud in.
billsfreak Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I'm guessing Schobel is gone. retire, trade or cut. No way he wants to go through the change at this point in his career. he's already on the bubble. He might not be there, but on a bubble? He is the best defensive player we have, if he is on a bubble the whole team is.
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Poz isn't big enough for middle linebacker in a 3-4, at least IMO. If you think he is getting destroyed in the middle now, just think of how it will work with a small front 3. Cody wouldn't be bad, but remember how awful he looked during the senior bowl weigh in. Williams is too small for a DE and Stroud himself believes that he wouldn't fit well as a DE. Maybin SOUNDS like a great idea at 3-4 given his strengths, but no one is asking how he will do in passing situations or how he will handle stopping the run. Rushing the QB will not be his sole job. And Schobel has never played 3-4 either. That will be akin to the shift to OLB Jason Taylor made last year....and it was obvious he wasn't as effective. I think this will take a year or two to get right. It will start with this year's draft, where I imagine getting a lot of these players will be the goal. you better take a good look at the ILBs on the Steelers Poz and Mitchell are bigger. Do your home work people.
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Small front 3? DUDE....do you realize that Cody, Stroud and Williams are all over 300lbs? Do you realize their combined weight is over a 1/2 ton (+1000lbs)? Williams would be undersized as a DE in a 3-4 b/c of his height disadvantage, not his weight. Stroud is a big guy, but has had 0 experience at DE in his entire career. I guess size was the wrong word. My point was that its not a solid 3-4, its a lot of guys playing outside of their natural positions.
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 That's NEVER going to happen but holy crap would that put some asses in the seats! They call that a "wet dream".
Drew026 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 We HAVE to get Ro Mac now. Our linebacking unit would be top tier.
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 not sure who will play NT but everything else is right on the money. With any luck from the football gods we get Mount Cody in the 2nd or dare I say it ....*gulp* move back into the first round to get him. I know I know. Don't move up to get players. I just don't buy into all of the he's fat and out of shape stuff. That guy is the next Will Wolfork or Shaun Rodgers. Big fat bastards that make RBs get in their belly. If not we have to go with better conditioned options like Cam Thomas or Dan Williams. They are who the "experts" say are the other top NTs.
Jerry Jabber Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 From what I read on bb.com, they could use Stroud as a NT and Williams & Spencer Johnson could be used as DE's. They also said Poz & Mitchell could be the ILB's and Schobel & Maybin will be the OLB's. I'd imagine, the Bills will either draft (most likely) a NT or pick one up via FA. I'm not sure what their plans are for Ellis & McCargo. Should be an interesting time between the start of FA & the draft.
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 He might not be there, but on a bubble? He is the best defensive player we have, if he is on a bubble the whole team is. 3-4/4-3 Hybrid. Schobel is still going to be stopping the run on occasion from the outside and rushing the QB like he always does. Basically my defense takes Ellison and Kelsay off the field and replaces them with Mt Cody and Maybin. Wtih all of that beef up front Schobel in my opinion would potentially have even less responsibility against the run.
iccrewman112 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 The 3-4 can only be effective with a NT that is a space eater. Enter Terrence Cody NT from Alabama the man eats space for breakfast, lunch, diner, and 4th meal.
Cash Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 It sounds like Stroud will be manning the nose, which is fine by me. I'd like to see Schobel traded as well. This should help guarantee us a terrible record next year, and a good chance at getting one of the top QBs in next year's draft. I don't anticipate either one in this year's draft falling to #9, so let's focus on getting a LT at #9, build up the line, develop our young receivers, and hopefully grab someone like Mallett or Locker with our top 5 pick next year. I'm not being sarcastic, either. Face it, folks: the absolute upside of this team is something like 8-8 next year. Better to understand that without a QB, there will be no quick fixes, and focus on building a good team for 2011 (or 2012, if the impending lockout cancels the 2011 season). Defense can be fixed quicker than offense, so our team's focus should be on acquiring and developing offensive players right now. Once we've got a QB and a line to protect him, then we can turn the primary focus back to the D (getting a nose tackle, etc.).
R. Rich Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Here...this guy is a 3-4 NT that has made 2 consecutive pro bowls... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RatlJa20.htm No reason that Kyle Williams should be deemed too small. Sorry, but the, "anyone that size can do it" argument doesn't really apply. That's like saying any 5-8 guy can run a 4.3 40 yard dash well into his 40s as Darrell Green once did. Ratliff is the exception, NOT the rule.
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Williams would be undersized as a DE in a 3-4 b/c of his height disadvantage, not his weight. Stroud is a big guy, but has had 0 experience at DE in his entire career. I guess size was the wrong word. My point was that its not a solid 3-4, its a lot of guys playing outside of their natural positions. I think we are making too much of the adjustment individual players will need to make. With a monsterous 330 - 370 lb NT that basically has to fall over and take out the center and possibly a guard I think Stroud and Williams, who are used to rushing the passer as is their responsibility in the Tampa 2, will be right at home continuing to do the same while stopping the run. I will give you that Williams is a bit short as far as the prototype goes. I used to bust on him all the time for being the little engine that could but.....well...he can. He has kept proving doubters wrong and a small plus is that I believe he was named to the probowl as a backup or alternate or something. Not bad for a a guy that I thought was a place holder 3 years ago.
manbeast Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 My dream 3-4 Johnson - Wilfork - Stroud Poz - Mitchell - McClain - Maybin That would be a FORMIDABLE group to block. Maybin coming off the edge the way Bryce Paup used to would be freaking frightening for opposing QB's! Poz is not your prototipical OLB in a 3-4 Ican't say he is too small because James Harrison is only 6' and 240.
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