billsfreak Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I think it means that LB just became a bigger priority than it was. Last year we were converting safeties and pulling free agents off the streets to play LB after injuries. That has to move the LB position to a higher spot on the draft board I would think, maybe right behind QB and Left Tackle. Does that mean that Williams, Stroud and the other guys up front will move to Nose Tackle or does it mean they may be moving out? I think Williams is quick enough for the move, not sure if he is big enough to stuff the middle by himself though.
billsfans126 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Draft mcclain at 9 and trade for shaun rogers since he's been on the trading block. Mcclain and poz as the inside linebackers, maybin/schobel and mitchell/maybin as the outside backers. Our secondary is fine, rogers as the nt. Seymour and stroud as des? Not too sure who's out there for 3-4 des.
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 As far as LBs go, I'd count on Mitchell and Poz inside, with Ellison and Nic Harris backing up. Maybin is a lock to move to rush LB, and (although there's a long way to go before anything is set in stone) I'd bet the same fate awaits Chris Ellis. Could save Chris Ellis' career as a Bill. Could McCargo spell at NT?
thebandit27 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Draft mcclain at 9 and trade for shaun rogers since he's been on the trading block. Mcclain and poz as the inside linebackers, maybin/schobel and mitchell/maybin as the outside backers. Our secondary is fine, rogers as the nt. Seymour and stroud as des? Not too sure who's out there for 3-4 des. No thanks on Rogers...too much $$ for a headcase that produces too little (JMO). As for FA 3-4 DEs, they're actually relatively easy to come by...here's a short list of guys that could play the position: Tyler Brayton (Car) Marques Douglas (NYJ) Nick Eason (Pit) Travis Kirschke (Pit) Cory Redding (Sea) Dwan Edwards (Bal) Richard Seymour (Oak)
JPS Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Could save Chris Ellis' career as a Bill. Could McCargo spell at NT? Who is Chris Ellis?
SuperKillerRobots Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Here...this guy is a 3-4 NT that has made 2 consecutive pro bowls... http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RatlJa20.htm No reason that Kyle Williams should be deemed too small. One of the keys to playing DT is staying low to maintain leverage...height can be a negative for a DT, not just a positive. Look: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FranAu20.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HampCa00.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillJa99.htm They come in all shapes and sizes. The important thing is: can he play? And I'd like to think we'd all agree that Williams can. Gregg is almost identical in size to Williams. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GregKe20.htm Plus, see the Jay Ratliff post above, it's not about size, it's about ability. There's no reason Williams can't play the nose if he's taught to tie up blockers properly. Stroud is the guy that I worry about fitting into the scheme, he may have to kick out to end, and he doesn't exactly project well as a 5-technique (EDIT: However, there have been similar 3-tech guys like Trevor Pryce that have made the same transition in the past). I agree that guys like Schobel and Kelsay are likely gone, but I think they need to find a way to fit Stroud into the equation. He, along with Spencer Johnson, will really need to step up their game. As far as LBs go, I'd count on Mitchell and Poz inside, with Ellison and Nic Harris backing up. Maybin is a lock to move to rush LB, and (although there's a long way to go before anything is set in stone) I'd bet the same fate awaits Chris Ellis. Overall, because 3-4 players tend to be guys that move from their college position to other roles in the NFL, they tend to be available in the 3rd-4th rounds of the draft. I'd expect quite a few OLB/DE and DT/DE picks as the draft progresses. Just my 1 cent. I agree with most of what you said. I just don't see Harris making the team next year. Ellison could stay because he's an RFA, but I guess another team might try to sign him from us (maybe the lack of UFAs will cause more teams to look at the RFAs seriously). I think Stroud can play DE and so can WIlliams, but we still need an NT.
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Thank god. We should also note that this could easily change our drafting. I imagine they are going to try and acquire a nose tackle. Johnson is good for a 3-4, Stroud not so much. Williams....I'm not sure where you play this guy. This also might have interesting implications on Schobel. In short, this might be the most significant thing to happen to the Bills...personnel-wise....in a few years.
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I agree with most of what you said. I just don't see Harris making the team next year. Ellison could stay because he's an RFA, but I guess another team might try to sign him from us (maybe the lack of UFAs will cause more teams to look at the RFAs seriously). I think Stroud can play DE and so can WIlliams, but we still need an NT. I see no reason to think that Harris won't be on the team unless you think that a 3-4 leaves no room for undersized linebackers. Bc, he still appears to be a strong talent w/ a nose for the ball. I'd take him over Ellison. I think Ellison is the odd man out.
bananathumb Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 This will likely re-inforce Schobel's decision to retire and it certainly makes Rolando McClain more likely to be drafted than one of the OTs everyone has been touting. Kyle Williams and McCargo may be tried as NT until they find somebody more suited for it.
Ray Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Great....that means we have yet another coach who plans to make his favorite scheme fit the personnel rather than the other way around. Basically means K Williams is expendable as is Kelsay and probably Schobel who at 32 yrs old has to play a position he has never played before. Trading or obtaining a huge NT in FA would be imperative if we do make the switch. As stated before there is not another team in the NFL who is less prepared personnel wise to make the switch to a 3-4. People here seem to be obscessed with the 3-4 when we have nowhere near the personnel to run it. You could not pick a worse sceme for this personnel unless they have absoolutely defined their goals in terms of who they want in FA or will trade for. But when you do NOT have the most important part of the 3-4 on your roster that makes it VERY difficult. They may want V Wilfork but their is no guarantee. Maybe we could have Ron Edwards just like KC....how did that work out for them?
dgrid Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 Why everyone down on Harris in 3-4 system? too undersized to shed blocks? Couldn't he be used on passing downs as coverage LBer?
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 For whatever reason, Kyle Williams has always reminded me as a poor man's Sedrick Ellis. I just looked up their respective sizes and they literally measure the same according to yahoo sports. Obviously, these numbers can't be trusted, but its still interesting to see how similar they are. If I remember correctly, Sedrick Ellis was supposed to be destined for a spot as a NT when he was drafted. I think it was Dorsey who was only considered to be a DT. So I take back what I said about Kyle Williams playing NT.
Coach Tuesday Posted February 4, 2010 Author Posted February 4, 2010 For whatever reason, Kyle Williams has always reminded me as a poor man's Sedrick Ellis. I just looked up their respective sizes and they literally measure the same according to yahoo sports. Obviously, these numbers can't be trusted, but its still interesting to see how similar they are. If I remember correctly, Sedrick Ellis was supposed to be destined for a spot as a NT when he was drafted. I think it was Dorsey who was only considered to be a DT. No, I think that's not right - Ellis was supposed to be a prototypical penetrating interior lineman in a 4-3 scheme, I believe...
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 !!!!! 3-4 / 4-3 HYBRID HERE WE COME !!!!! I don't think we need that much of an overhaul. To me the switch to a 3 - 4 means this should/could be our starting LB and DL line up: DLINE Marcus Stroud at DE Terrance Cody at NT (Rookie) Kyle Williams at DE LB Aaron Schobel at OLB (Pass rush specialist) POZ at MLB Mitchell at MLB Aaron Maybin at OLB (Pass rush specialist) This may not be the personnel lineup some envision but it would mean we only need one additional body to play NT. This Would give us a ridiculous amount of run stuffing beef up front. Maybin and Schobel would play in more space and would be free to go completely nuts attacking the QB from the left, the right or both sides. Secondary stays the same maybe trading Whitner in for any kind of draft pick or depth player and letting George Wilson start with Byrd. McGee and McKelvin at CBs
BillsVet Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 2010 is going to be the beginning of a long rebuilding process. The defense needs a lot of pieces to fit into a 3-4, especially at LB. For teams like Denver, having a guy suited for the 3-4 OLB position in Dumervil helped immensely. Not all teams transition to the 3-4 in one season.
Mikie2times Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 zero chance at having a good defense for at least a couple of seasons + high likelihood of having a below average offense = new coach again 3 years from now.......Yippie I love the 3-4, but you would be hard pressed to find a team in the NFL set up worse to run it then us. Glad so many got what they wanted..sarcasm on
PDaDdy Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 I see no reason to think that Harris won't be on the team unless you think that a 3-4 leaves no room for undersized linebackers. Bc, he still appears to be a strong talent w/ a nose for the ball. I'd take him over Ellison. I think Ellison is the odd man out. Harris was also a safety in college before we converted him to LB. He should have no trouble when coverage from a LB is required.
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 !!!!! 3-4 / 4-3 HYBRID HERE WE COME !!!!! I don't think we need that much of an overhaul. To me the switch to a 3 - 4 means this should/could be our starting LB and DL line up: DLINE Marcus Stroud at DE Terrance Cody at NT (Rookie) Kyle Williams at DE LB Aaron Schobel at OLB (Pass rush specialist) POZ at MLB Mitchell at MLB Aaron Maybin at OLB (Pass rush specialist) This may not be the personnel lineup some envision but it would mean we only need one additional body to play NT. This Would give us a ridiculous amount of run stuffing beef up front. Maybin and Schobel would play in more space and would be free to go completely nuts attacking the QB from the left, the right or both sides. Secondary stays the same maybe trading Whitner in for any kind of draft pick or depth player and letting George Wilson start with Byrd. McGee and McKelvin at CBs I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Poz isn't big enough for middle linebacker in a 3-4, at least IMO. If you think he is getting destroyed in the middle now, just think of how it will work with a small front 3. Cody wouldn't be bad, but remember how awful he looked during the senior bowl weigh in. Williams is too small for a DE and Stroud himself believes that he wouldn't fit well as a DE. Maybin SOUNDS like a great idea at 3-4 given his strengths, but no one is asking how he will do in passing situations or how he will handle stopping the run. Rushing the QB will not be his sole job. And Schobel has never played 3-4 either. That will be akin to the shift to OLB Jason Taylor made last year....and it was obvious he wasn't as effective. I think this will take a year or two to get right. It will start with this year's draft, where I imagine getting a lot of these players will be the goal.
LaDairis Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 just get BIG & MEAN As opposed to good... How about Rosie O'Donnell?
LABills08 Posted February 4, 2010 Posted February 4, 2010 No, I think that's not right - Ellis was supposed to be a prototypical penetrating interior lineman in a 4-3 scheme, I believe... I don't have any links on his status as a draft prospect, but there is this discussion in a forum: Ellis as NT? I'm almost positive he was seen as being capable of NT.
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