ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Good plan - gives you a fighting chance against Prius' over-arching (by necessity, in that vehicle's case) system. Not for Toyotas' Prius rationale, but there are several builds that restrict a total disablement of TCS/Stability (ESC) systems. The basis is in fear of litigation. IIRC, 2012 marks the US mandate for across-the-board ESC. Bon apetite! I agree. He is still a dolt. He just happened to find the right tires, and that I give him credit for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Get in one car and the gas pedal sticks, get in a Prius and the brakes may become unrepsonive... WTF! More Woes for Toyota Gives new meaning to "Moving Forward" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Gives new meaning to "Moving Forward" "And we (Toyota) won't stop you too!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 That you are an effing dolt! Amazing that you of all people put up with what even in your own word called "a problem." I have a nice job for you in the Corps, you would fit right in! I take the BF Goodrich's were OEM tires? If not, my sincerest apologies... Yet you are still a dolt. The problem is in the software... Your Michelins may have helped... But you are still not fixing the problem. Why didn't you go right to Toyota with the problem? Again, were the BF Goodrich's OEM? If not, I can see if somebody was reluctant with a company like Toyota... They would smell blood in the water if somebody was having problems and had aftermarket tires on the ride. What I mean is that they would no doubt throw it on the car owner... Sweep in under the rug. Now I can see Toyota's or any other maker's point if you had NOT the required size of t tire or wheel... But, if that size requirement wa met... You should have no problems with the BRAKING SYSTEM. The Goodrich's were the OEM tires. And considering that the new tires solved the problem (at least, I've had no braking problems since switching tires), I'd say the problem isn't just the software, but a mismatch between software and tires - badly written software for the specified tires, or badly chosen tires for the specified software requirements. The simple fact that I could address it with a new set of tires indicates it's a little more complex than just "hey, we screwed up some code". But I always considered it a minor problem, myself. Different cars drive differently; you adjust your driving habits to match. Brakes don't respond as well in poor conditions, you give yourself more braking distance. Engineering is the practice of making design tradeoffs according to requirements anyway...you never get any sort of perfect system. In the Prius, you sacrifice some performance and handling for fuel economy. That's the design feature. Bitching about the tradeoff it simply means you're not living in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 The Goodrich's were the OEM tires. And considering that the new tires solved the problem (at least, I've had no braking problems since switching tires), I'd say the problem isn't just the software, but a mismatch between software and tires - badly written software for the specified tires, or badly chosen tires for the specified software requirements. The simple fact that I could address it with a new set of tires indicates it's a little more complex than just "hey, we screwed up some code". But I always considered it a minor problem, myself. Different cars drive differently; you adjust your driving habits to match. Brakes don't respond as well in poor conditions, you give yourself more braking distance. Engineering is the practice of making design tradeoffs according to requirements anyway...you never get any sort of perfect system. In the Prius, you sacrifice some performance and handling for fuel economy. That's the design feature. Bitching about the tradeoff it simply means you're not living in reality. I understand... And forgive me for the name calling. Really... If you are putting the same size (required) tires and wheel on the vehicle, it should not matter what tire, tread pattern, or material compound... THAT should NOT grossly effect braking during normal driving conditions... Especially a delay, I never heard of that... I mean WTF? That could be a little un-nerving? What is happening for that one second? You just said you got rear-ended?? Is that the car?? Did the brake lights immediately light when you depressed the pedal?? Just saying. They did screw up "just some code"... Again, braking during normal conditions shouldn't JUST hinge on material or tread pattern. There should be no delay across the tire/wheel size requirement. I mean your argument is like saying your car runs better on Shell 87 gasoline than Exxon 87 unleaded gasoline. This is a total screw up on Toyota's part. Delayed braking is not a performance thing... Positive braking is expected on all rides. It shouldn't be up to the consumer to fumble their way through tire suppliers, that is Toyota's job... And again even that, as long as the sizes are the right factory specs, no way in hell should delayed braking come into play. You did do a good job finding the Michelins... Almost like throwing darts in the wind. I do suspect your issue is still there, just that the Michelins are masking the problem a little better. Vehicles should not be sold like PC's are sold. Who cares if there is a glitch in one's new PC. It makes a difference if that glitch is in a car, especially when it involves braking and acceleration. Toyota would be more than happy for everybody to take that approach and iron out problems ontheir own. That is a little risky and irresponsible on Toyota's part, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 The funny thing about all the Toyota stuff is that if the problems were happening to a domestic car maker... You surely know the whole "lazy worker", "damn union" argument would be thrown out there. The argument has already been thrown out there in the other thread. This is a Toyota engineering problem (along the lines like they have been having for many year: See engine sludging)... What are they getting their egghead engineers from a "state school?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I understand... And forgive me for the name calling. Nothing to forgive. It's not like I don't to it too, asshat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Nothing to forgive. It's not like I don't to it too, asshat. How did you find the Michelins worked better? Just go on the rep of the brand? If you did, you threw a bullseye. ALWAYS after my OEM tires, I go with a harder compound in order to get longer tread life (over handling)... Usually Toyo tires. Is it a softer vs. harder compound thing? Michelins would (I assume) be (use) a softer compound giving you less tread life vs. better handling. And why would that even effect or cause a delay in braking? And the Prius has regenerative braking where it saves the energy... Is that at the heart of the issue. But a delay??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 4, 2010 Author Share Posted February 4, 2010 Looks like they will recall 270k of the Prius: New Prius Recall "...NHTSA said it has received 124 complaints about momentary braking problems after motorists rolled over bumps or potholes with the third-generation Prius. Four crashes were alleged by motorists to have been caused by the problems, NHTSA said. The investigation covers the 2010 model year Prius..." The problems keep on mounting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 I'm sure Toyota will bounce back after all the problems are fixed. They've only made shoddy cars two years ('09-'10) out of the 50+ years they've been making cars. My 13 y/o Corolla still probably has 5 years left in it before I'd even begin to think about replacing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradDobler Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 In the '80's, they slammed the US - manufactured Golf for having an illogical dashboard assembly ... Westmoreland, PA Rabbits, I believe. I had one, great car. No US Golfs, made in Mexico so then NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 I'm sure Toyota will bounce back after all the problems are fixed. They've only made shoddy cars two years ('09-'10) out of the 50+ years they've been making cars. My 13 y/o Corolla still probably has 5 years left in it before I'd even begin to think about replacing it. No. You forgot the rustbuckets of the 1970's and the oil sludge buckets of the 1990's-present. You must have got a good vehicle. What about the Japanese industry being really picky about their warranty. It always amazed me that people who bought imports didn't push more... Problems would just be chalked up like DCTom said in his story. Lana, how many miles on that Corolla? What kinda of maint/problems history on it. Any car built in the last 20 should get people 300k with minimum maintenance. I can probably compare that Corolla to any domestic car I owned in the last 20 years. Anyway: Toyota is apologizing-- Toyota Apologizes Just imagine if this was a big, bad, UNION domestic car company... They would be perceived as being "weak" coming out like this... People would surely burn them at the stake, first starting with the "lazy union worker" who makes "100k" (Ford now starts out people at under 15 bucks and hour) a year pushing a broom or riveting a rocker panel for an 8 hour shift. What gets me is the double standard that is so glaring. I guess it is always easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission. The domestic companies seem to never be given both. Toyota has that lesson well learned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 You dummies...its called an "anti-lock braking system." If you dont know how to operate your vehicle and the onboard systems its equipped with, then turn in your keys and license. If you buy a high tech vehicle and youre shocked...SHOCKED it doesnt "feel" like your old 76 Buick, then you need to open your hood and lick one of the orange cables. My TSX does the same thing...youre on the brakes, you go over some rough road, the ABS kicks in and the car actually "feels" like the brakes are losing the ability to stop the car. They arent...and it took about thirty seconds after I picked up the car in 07 to realize this is a design feature of the advanced ABS onboard and for me to adjust to how they work. Learn how to operate your !@#$ing vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 You dummies...its called an "anti-lock braking system." If you dont know how to operate your vehicle and the onboard systems its equipped with, then turn in your keys and license. If you buy a high tech vehicle and youre shocked...SHOCKED it doesnt "feel" like your old 76 Buick, then you need to open your hood and lick one of the orange cables. My TSX does the same thing...youre on the brakes, you go over some rough road, the ABS kicks in and the car actually "feels" like the brakes are losing the ability to stop the car. They arent...and it took about thirty seconds after I picked up the car in 07 to realize this is a design feature of the advanced ABS onboard and for me to adjust to how they work. Learn how to operate your !@#$ing vehicles. So everything is fine then? Toyota has a job for you in PR, they have been losing guys like you for some time! Nice, I haven't heard someone in the industry talk to me this waysince I had my Isuzu and went to the dealer with a problem. You should fax your comment to Toyota... Maybe they can stop the recall on the Prius and its braking system. Your post is exactly why Toyota has operated under smoke and mirrors all these years. Blame the victim! Anyway... You dolt... The problem is even more a problem in later generation (third) Prius'. Is that 2007 a third generation. Again... Like I told DC, it isn't the comsumer's responsibility to fumble through their design... He got lucky with tires he picked out. Fan boys and apologists like yourself are the disease... Toyota will get worse and worse if people like you continued to let things slide... And of course the streets will get more dangerous. IMO, Toyota needs to go back to their roots... That is what made them great. The sad thing about that is, they are top-dog now... All the crap will hit them and nothing will roll off anymore. Every slep is buying their product now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Screw cars. Buy THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Again... Like I told DC, it isn't the comsumer's responsibility to fumble through their design... He got lucky with tires he picked out. And like I said: I consider it an engineering trade-off, and act accordingly. Caveat Emptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 So everything is fine then? Toyota has a job for you in PR, they have been losing guys like you for some time! Nice, I haven't heard someone in the industry talk to me this waysince I had my Isuzu and went to the dealer with a problem. You should fax your comment to Toyota... Maybe they can stop the recall on the Prius and its braking system. Your post is exactly why Toyota has operated under smoke and mirrors all these years. Blame the victim! Anyway... You dolt... The problem is even more a problem in later generation (third) Prius'. Is that 2007 a third generation. Again... Like I told DC, it isn't the comsumer's responsibility to fumble through their design... He got lucky with tires he picked out. Fan boys and apologists like yourself are the disease... Toyota will get worse and worse if people like you continued to let things slide... And of course the streets will get more dangerous. IMO, Toyota needs to go back to their roots... That is what made them great. The sad thing about that is, they are top-dog now... All the crap will hit them and nothing will roll off anymore. Every slep is buying their product now. LEARN HOW TO OPERATE YOUR VEHICLE. BECOME ACCOSTOMED TO ITS CHARACTERISTICS AND TRAITS. END OF STORY. The problem is not me...its YOU...people who forget they are operating a mechanical vehicle and think what they have is their own personal ballwashing machine...taking for granted everything from how to safely operate it to the fact things might break from time to time. And how the !@#$ am I a "toyota fanboy" when I said I drive a Honda (Acura)??!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 No. You forgot the rustbuckets of the 1970's and the oil sludge buckets of the 1990's-present. You must have got a good vehicle. What about the Japanese industry being really picky about their warranty. It always amazed me that people who bought imports didn't push more... Problems would just be chalked up like DCTom said in his story. Lana, how many miles on that Corolla? What kinda of maint/problems history on it. Any car built in the last 20 should get people 300k with minimum maintenance. I can probably compare that Corolla to any domestic car I owned in the last 20 years. Anyway: Toyota is apologizing-- Toyota Apologizes Just imagine if this was a big, bad, UNION domestic car company... They would be perceived as being "weak" coming out like this... People would surely burn them at the stake, first starting with the "lazy union worker" who makes "100k" (Ford now starts out people at under 15 bucks and hour) a year pushing a broom or riveting a rocker panel for an 8 hour shift. What gets me is the double standard that is so glaring. I guess it is always easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission. The domestic companies seem to never be given both. Toyota has that lesson well learned! Sorry, I was too young to remember anything that happened in the late 70s. My car has 128K miles on it and I've probably put a total about about 3-5K of repairs, not including tires and oil changes, in the 11 yrs I've owned it. BTW, I get free oil changes for life from Toyota. How many of you have that?? If I had to choose between buying a Ford and a Toyota, I'd buy another Toyota...just not one made in the year 2009 or 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBye Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 LEARN HOW TO OPERATE YOUR VEHICLE. BECOME ACCOSTOMED TO ITS CHARACTERISTICS AND TRAITS. END OF STORY. The problem is not me...its YOU...people who forget they are operating a mechanical vehicle and think what they have is their own personal ballwashing machine...taking for granted everything from how to safely operate it to the fact things might break from time to time. And how the !@#$ am I a "toyota fanboy" when I said I drive a Honda (Acura)??!!?? Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Sorry, I was too young to remember anything that happened in the late 70s. My car has 128K miles on it and I've probably put a total about about 3-5K of repairs, not including tires and oil changes, in the 11 yrs I've owned it. BTW, I get free oil changes for life from Toyota. How many of you have that?? If I had to choose between buying a Ford and a Toyota, I'd buy another Toyota...just not one made in the year 2009 or 2010. My father had two mid-70's vintage Corollas. He needed two - he'd have to drive one while fixing the other. Still, it was no worse a car than the Ford Pinto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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