RkFast Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 Which is what I said. That WOULD make icing a contributing factor, though, since in that case it would cause the problem they didn't react to (or inappropriately reacted to). Hopefully. Different planes have different stall characteristics. Still...if you're flying a plane in which you can't recognize a stall, you shouldn't be flying the plane. Or you're just not paying attention. And to pull the nose up in a stall? There's millions of owners of Microsoft Flight Simulator that know better than that... I think you just nailed a HUGE problem. I beleive flight schools are emphasising "flight systems management" more than they are teaching actual flying
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 I think you just nailed a HUGE problem. I beleive flight schools are emphasising "flight systems management" more than they are teaching actual flying Not where I got my license. I had to fly my arse off, and continually had to demonstrate my ability in ridiculous situations like flying a Cessna 108 horse 150 straight up till it stalled. Of course I learned in Alaska, I can't speak for the Arizona pilot mills.
RkFast Posted February 3, 2010 Posted February 3, 2010 Im talking more of those mills, Jim. They are advertised in Aviation Week and some of the other trades...where you go in one end of the school building not knowing what a "flap" is and you walk out the other end of the building x months later with a twin engine liscense and a job offering at a regional carrier.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/07/9795...to-uncover.html
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 http://www.buffalonews.com/2010/03/07/9795...to-uncover.html No one with a pilots license should need training in stall recognition/recovery. It's ABC 10 hour student stuff.
Steely Dan Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Why don't I find this surprising in the least? I hope the FAA does a thorough investigation and learns how far to the top it goes. I can't believe, oh wait I can, US Air wouldn't have a better grip on this company and demand certified confirmation of what pilots have been trained on.
Steely Dan Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 HOT-1 is the Captain, HOT-2 is the First Officer and it has nothing to do with their looks , it's simply NTSB lingo for identified cockpit crew voices on CVR transcripts. CAM is cockpit area monitor which picks up all cockpit sounds of any source, and RDO is radio com from accident aircraft.
Just Jack Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Catching up on some magazines I got, just read this article last night.... Downsized! The Rise of Regional Airlines
Marv's Neighbor Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 4000-5000 feet, actually. If they were on the proper glide slope for the approach to Buffalo Airport, that's roughly the altitude they'd be over Clarence Center. If you review the ILS 23 plate for BUF the Altitude at the Outer Marker is indicating 2300' MSL - feet above sea level. The marker is about 5 miles from Rwy 23. I'm not sure but I think the crash site is inside where the Outer Marker is located. The terrain elevation out there is about 750' above sea level so if they were on the Glide Slope, they should have been about 1550' above the ground, 5 miles from the Airport. They should have been stabalized on both the Glide Slope and the localizer at the outer marker, in which case you just fly the plane on course and on altitude down to visual identification of the runway environment-usually starting with the approach lights. If you're not stabalized, you execute a missed approach and try again.
McBeane Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Colgan should be in HUGE trouble for this. And I wouldn't be surprised if they face a class action lawsuit from the families of the deceased.
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 If you review the ILS 23 plate for BUF the Altitude at the Outer Marker is indicating 2300' MSL - feet above sea level. The marker is about 5 miles from Rwy 23. I'm not sure but I think the crash site is inside where the Outer Marker is located. The terrain elevation out there is about 750' above sea level so if they were on the Glide Slope, they should have been about 1550' above the ground, 5 miles from the Airport. They should have been stabalized on both the Glide Slope and the localizer at the outer marker, in which case you just fly the plane on course and on altitude down to visual identification of the runway environment-usually starting with the approach lights. If you're not stabalized, you execute a missed approach and try again. From the very first in this I wondered if a missed approach was considered a black mark by the company, and the pilot's knew it. Why else would you so desperately try to save a landing? Also the GPS approach is identical.- they can't afford a certified Garmin?
truth on hold Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 all in all a terrible tragedy. yes and is there any reason to believe standards have since been raised?
zow2 Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 HOT-1 is the Captain, HOT-2 is the First Officer and it has nothing to do with their looks , it's simply NTSB lingo for identified cockpit crew voices on CVR transcripts. CAM is cockpit area monitor which picks up all cockpit sounds of any source, and RDO is radio com from accident aircraft. Everytime i see that video, it makes me sick. Those two "pilots" just completely spaced out on flying the aircraft and monitoring the instruments and airspeed. As soon as the gear is lowered you can see the airspeed just bleeding away until the stall. And then of course, they do the exact opposite of what they should have done.
RkFast Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 From the very first in this I wondered if a missed approach was considered a black mark by the company, and the pilot's knew it. Why else would you so desperately try to save a landing? Also the GPS approach is identical.- they can't afford a certified Garmin? You puke this up and have the nerve to get on my ass a while ago about knowing the ins and outs of aviation? LOL
PromoTheRobot Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 This is a big reason I fly Southwest 99% of the time. They don't farm out to regionals and they hire real pilots. PTR
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 You puke this up and have the nerve to get on my ass a while ago about knowing the ins and outs of aviation? LOL ?HUH? It's Jim in Anchorage-are you sure you have the right person? Quote my post where "I got on your ass"
inkman Posted March 8, 2010 Posted March 8, 2010 Everytime i see that video, it makes me sick. Chilling...
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