Adam Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 I disagree on Stroud. Wright was overrated and not a great NT in the 3-4. Our run defense actually got worse when they replaced Smerlas with Wright. Wright wasn't overrated. Our coaches were just too dumb to use him correctly. Wouldn't have surprised me if those idiots putt Kelly or Reed at NT......
Nuncha Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Norwoods missed kick in SB 25, albeit a monumental one, clouds the memory of some of you, or, maybe you are not old enough to realize, Scott Norwood was an outstanding kicker for the Bills... Rian Lindell, on the other hand, is vastly overrated. Lindell has been consistent, because he has rarely been asked to kick in pressure situations...and when he has, he hasn't been real impressive. Norwood, pre Super Bowl 25, and Christie were both better than Lindell... Rian was positively bad when he first came to Buffalo, but, because of his bloated contract, and the fact that the team pretty much sucked anyways, he was given far more time to work his way to a respectable level in Buffalo... other than SB 25, I can think of very few clutch kicks, regular season that Norwood missed... he had a rough season in 1991, no doubt the effect of the miss. Lindell has a number of chokes on his Buffalo resume... and worse, wasn't even asked to make attempts, because his coaches knew he couldn't perform. Norwide was 133/184, which is a sickly 72.2% for his career. He was 2/10 from 50 yards plus for his career. Lindell has hit nearly 81% of his kicks and is 16/28 from 50+. Remember we had to keep two kickers on the roster because Norwides leg was so weak he couldn't kick off? GIve me a break man. Who is the better kicker? LOL! Norwide played for 7 seasons. Lindell is at 10.
Adam Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Norwide was 133/184, which is a sickly 72.2% for his career. He was 2/10 from 50 yards plus for his career. Lindell has hit nearly 81% of his kicks and is 16/28 from 50+. Remember we had to keep two kickers on the roster because Norwides leg was so weak he couldn't kick off? GIve me a break man. Who is the better kicker? LOL! Norwide played for 7 seasons. Lindell is at 10. Norwood tailed off at the end of his career. I would take Steve Christie over NORWOOD or Lindell. Remember that as you take off your Tom Brady jersey tonight
Mr_Blizzard Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Who was our punter back then? Rick "Bootin" Tuten. Would have like to have John Kidd on the '90 Bills squad . . .
PDaDdy Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Lee Evans has never taken a hit in his life and has a bad attitude like Chris Burkett. Good player but not a team guy and too shy to take a hit. He probably would have been let go by Marv like Burkett was for being a kitty. Lee Evans should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as Beebe, Lofton and Reed. Lee Evans? Bad Attitude? Are you kidding? There is ABSOLUTELY no supported evidence of Lee Evans having a bad attitude.
thebandit27 Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 I think you underestimate McGee. McGee is a top notch CB who could be used as a shut-down corner if he weren't in a cover-2 defense that asks him to play a 10-yard cushion. That's not a knock on Odomes. That's a compliment for McGee. I think McGee would've been our #1 CB if he was on that '90s team. And yes, Odomes had an interception in Superbowl 28 when Bruce got pressure on Aikman and forced a bad pass. If that's even close to true, then it sure would be nice if--at some point during his career--he started to play that way. You can blame the scheme all you want, but McGee doesn't get anywhere near the WR half the time. That's not the scheme's fault. It's McGee's. Perry Fewell was even quoted during the '09 preseason as saying that the scheme doesn't dictate a 10-yard cushion... http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Aug28/0,4...cKelvin,00.html McGee isn't even the best cover man on his own team. That honor belongs to Drayton Florence. Just take a look at the stats: http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 This is the only site I've seen that keeps coverage stats for DBs (and comes highly recommended by SI.com's Peter King). Try sorting by some of the more important comparitive statistics like opponent's QB rating when targeting the player, ypc against, completion percentage against, etc. Try finding one statistic in which Terrence McGee ranks in the top 50 CBs in the NFL...you won't. EDIT: I found one--he's 37th in receptions against with 33; 3 fewer than Drayton Florence, despite the fact that Florence was targeted 22% more often (66 times to McGee's 54). I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but fans of this team have an unbelievably inflated idea of McGee's value. He's vastly overrated, especially for a guy that makes $7M/year.
Buftex Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 Norwide was 133/184, which is a sickly 72.2% for his career. He was 2/10 from 50 yards plus for his career. Lindell has hit nearly 81% of his kicks and is 16/28 from 50+. Remember we had to keep two kickers on the roster because Norwides leg was so weak he couldn't kick off? GIve me a break man. Who is the better kicker? LOL! Norwide played for 7 seasons. Lindell is at 10. You obviously started watching the Bills over the last decade... I will never question that Lindell had a stronger leg than Lindell, but, Norwood was a Pro Bowler, led the league in scoring one year, led the team in scoring a few times, and regularly kicked game winning field goals during the 1988, 1989 and 1990 seasons. He had a bad 1991 (part of the reason his percentage dipped so low), but was one of the greatest clutch kickers in the league for about 4 years. As I said in an earlier post, Lindells longevity in Buffalo is part the product of the fact that he signed a large $ deal, so the Bills, as they are a bit thrifty (being nice) don't want to pay him the price it would have cost to cut him. He has improved, but he was absolutely dreadful his first two seasons in Buffalo. Even now, he has been much more accurate, but the ones he misses are almost always in the "clutch" category, and are always very costly. Sorry, I would still take Norwood over Lindell.
nostyle126 Posted February 1, 2010 Author Posted February 1, 2010 McGee isn't even the best cover man on his own team. That honor belongs to Drayton Florence. Just take a look at the stats: http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 I might be a little slow, but McGee is 75 and Florence is 79. How is Florence better?
spartacus Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 If that's even close to true, then it sure would be nice if--at some point during his career--he started to play that way. You can blame the scheme all you want, but McGee doesn't get anywhere near the WR half the time. That's not the scheme's fault. It's McGee's. Perry Fewell was even quoted during the '09 preseason as saying that the scheme doesn't dictate a 10-yard cushion... http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Aug28/0,4...cKelvin,00.html McGee isn't even the best cover man on his own team. That honor belongs to Drayton Florence. Just take a look at the stats: http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.ph...&numgames=1 This is the only site I've seen that keeps coverage stats for DBs (and comes highly recommended by SI.com's Peter King). Try sorting by some of the more important comparitive statistics like opponent's QB rating when targeting the player, ypc against, completion percentage against, etc. Try finding one statistic in which Terrence McGee ranks in the top 50 CBs in the NFL...you won't. EDIT: I found one--he's 37th in receptions against with 33; 3 fewer than Drayton Florence, despite the fact that Florence was targeted 22% more often (66 times to McGee's 54). I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but fans of this team have an unbelievably inflated idea of McGee's value. He's vastly overrated, especially for a guy that makes $7M/year. Bills should have paid Greer instead of McGee, and drafted Ryan Clady instead of McElvin
Mikie2times Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Lee Evans has never taken a hit in his life and has a bad attitude like Chris Burkett. Good player but not a team guy and too shy to take a hit. He probably would have been let go by Marv like Burkett was for being a kitty. Lee Evans should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as Beebe, Lofton and Reed. Are you kidding? Lee Evans can't be mentioned in the same breath as Beebe? Beebe was a poor mans deep threat. Remarkably high character. But not on the same ability level as Lee (speed yes, everything else no). Lee has ten times the body control, hands, and route running then Beebe ever had (not a better route runner then Tasker, as most Bills from those teams claimed him to be unrecoverable. Something that only showed itself on certain occasions in actual games) I'll give you Reed, but Reed couldn't be a more opposite a player then Lee is. He lived for those deep crossing pattens. He lived for contact, that's just who he was. It would e like comparing Jerome Bettis and Chris Johnson. Lofton is actually very much like Evans besides the size and experience he had (at his time with the Bills). Like Lee a deep ball guy who was amongst the league leaders in yards a reception during his time. Not an over the middle guy (I guess that makes him soft in your eyes, but neither have games that translated to being over the middle guys like Reed) One major thing left out here is who was throwing those guys the passes. In fact that's a REALLY major thing you left out especially when looking at Evans. The receivers you mentioned had the best Bills QB of all time throwing the passes. Lee only has had good success with a strong arm guy throwing the ball in Losman. Right now he just stretches the field to much for our noodle arms to really have a chance at using his skills effectively. I would argue Lofton would be useless to this current cast of characters, Reed greatly diminished. Evans attitude is fine with me. He wants to win. He extended, and now he's part of the situation I just described. Obviously less then ideal for him. I'll go as far to say it's downright horrible for him right now. I feel his attitude is in a good enough place to respond well if we give him more of a chance to do so. Not to unreasonable IMO.
Tcali Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I so want to believe you're joking and yet nowadays you never know when a post like this is serious. rest easy
Mikie2times Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Chris Mohr No BM but he really mastered the Buffalo winds.
BobbyC81 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Just curious for opinions. Here is mine. Moorman would've started over Tuten or any other punter we had during that stretch. Lindell would've started over Norwood but not Christie. Stroud would've started over Wright. I think McGee would've started over Odomes. Schobel would've started over Seals...and perhaps even Hansen. That's it. There are some borderline ones. Maybe Byrd would've gotten the nod over Kelso but I bet not, since the coaches loved having the brainy Kelso out on the field. Maybe Lee Evans would've started over Beebe in a 3-WR set. Any others? Agree, disagree? Brian Moorman.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I'd have to say Aaron Maybin, John McCargo and Donte Whitner. He was kidding. McCargo doesn't make the team, Whitner may not either. Maybin too soon to tell. You were not. I tend to agree. I don't think Evans has been a great Bills receiver. There's no way he starts over Reed or Lofton, and its not automatic that he plays over Beebe either. Great WRs will have dominant games once in a while, even with a bad team. I can't ever recall that from Evans. Date Recs-Yds-TDs 12/5/04 4-110-2 12/19/04 5-101-1 12/26/04 8-92-2 12/4/05 5-117-3 (45, 56, 4) 9/24/06 8-107-0 10/1/06 7-92-0 10/8/06 9-94-1 10/15/06 8-82-0 11/19/06 11-265-2 (83, 83) 12/31/06 7-145-1 (44) 10/28/07 5-138-1 (85) 11/4/07 9-165-1 9/28/08 2-88-1 (39) 10/19/08 8-89-1 10/26/08 7-116-0 11/23/08 5-110-0 You have a very bad memory. If Evans played in a decent offense, there's no telling what sort of numbers he would have put up by now. I know you said starters - but I would pick Kenneth Davis over Lynch as my backup RB Yes, but Fred Jackson vs Kenneth Davis is a good argument (as Jackson only became a starter part way through this year). The one name I haven't seen mentioned is Tasker. Given a choice of Reed, Lofton, Beebe, would you take Evans over Tasker, given all that Tasker could do in other aspects of the game. Kelly always said that Tasker couldn't be covered when he played for the scout team, and particularly his last two years made some huge catches as the slot or 4th wideout in the Kgun. As I've said many times (and born out by his excellent stats in limited touches at the very end of his career), Tasker would have been just as good as Wes Welker is now, if he would have been given the opportunity to play from scrimmage. Both Evans and Tasker are better than Beebe ever was.
billsfan89 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Lets see who would start? Lee Evans no doubt would at the very least be the number 2 WR to Reed if not the number one. Freddie or Lynch would be a respectable number 2 running back but it wasn't a one back league back then so they wouldn't really play that much. Now on the defensive side of the ball we have a few more starters Byrd and McGee would likely play in the secondary (If not more guys from the secondary but we will go conservative with this list). Schobel would likely have played BUT as I recall those teams were 3-4 teams and we just aren't equipped to run it. So to make the list short on offense Lee Evans and on defense most of our secondary and possibly Schobel.
thebandit27 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I might be a little slow, but McGee is 75 and Florence is 79. How is Florence better? Not sure how they calculate the total grade...perhaps they place a premium on penalties, since in every other discernable category Florence is ahead of McGee (try sorting by the individual categories). Nevertheless, check out the actual stats, not just the overall grade...
nostyle126 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Lets see who would start? Lee Evans no doubt would at the very least be the number 2 WR to Reed if not the number one. No way Evans starts over Reed. You could argue Evans versus Lofton all day, but Reed was #1. Freddie or Lynch would be a respectable number 2 running back but it wasn't a one back league back then so they wouldn't really play that much. As someone else mentioned I think Fred Jackson versus Kenneth Davis is a good argument.
nostyle126 Posted February 2, 2010 Author Posted February 2, 2010 Not sure how they calculate the total grade...perhaps they place a premium on penalties, since in every other discernable category Florence is ahead of McGee (try sorting by the individual categories). Nevertheless, check out the actual stats, not just the overall grade... I will when I get some time. I just took a peak to see what it was all about and noticed the rankings.
billsfreak Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Norwide was 133/184, which is a sickly 72.2% for his career. He was 2/10 from 50 yards plus for his career. Lindell has hit nearly 81% of his kicks and is 16/28 from 50+. Remember we had to keep two kickers on the roster because Norwides leg was so weak he couldn't kick off? GIve me a break man. Who is the better kicker? LOL! Norwide played for 7 seasons. Lindell is at 10. I would take Steve Christie over either of them.
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