Geno Smith's Arm Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Sorry to drag this into the post, but since 1961, the Bills have only spent a 1st round pick on a quarterback TWICE! Jim Kelly and JP Losman. They have really only had one excellent QB (Joe Ferguson doesn't quite make the cut) in modern times. One was a Hall of Famer, the other was, well JP Losman. My point is, why are people so afraid of bringing in a top prospect? The Bills have only succeeded with 1st round pick (Kelly), and they have only been burned ONCE in 50 years! During which time they have mostly been searching for a quality QB! You gotta take the chance!
The Senator Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Sorry to drag this into the post, but since 1961, the Bills have only spent a 1st round pick on a quarterback TWICE! Jim Kelly and JP Losman. They have really only had one excellent QB (Joe Ferguson doesn't quite make the cut) in modern times. One was a Hall of Famer, the other was, well JP Losman. My point is, why are people so afraid of bringing in a top prospect? The Bills have only succeeded with 1st round pick (Kelly), and they have only been burned ONCE in 50 years! During which time they have mostly been searching for a quality QB! You gotta take the chance! Technically, via trading their 1st-round picks, the Bills also spent 1st-round picks on Rob Johnson in 1998, and Drew Bledsoe in 2003 - both supposed 'known' entities - and got burned both times. QBs are a huge gamble (see Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Heath Schuler, Jim Druckenmiller, et al), and all the so-called 'can't miss' first-round QB prospects in this year's draft have question marks, IMHO. Edwards is 'cooked'. Draft a LT, and start building an o-line that can keep Brohm/Fitzpatrick/QB-to-be-named upright long enough to find Evans/Owens/WR-to-be-named down field.
ieatcrayonz Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Some things about Trent I think to be true 1. Trent is a smart person. He has a high degree of intelligence for an NFL QB I thought of all Trent's interviews and his favorite word....... "Ummmmmmm" then I started reading your post. I stoppped reading right there. Smarter than Bledsoe does not equal smart. Was Glove Wearing Mary from Los Gatos on the list?
T master Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Quarterback progression comes in so many forms. Some guys like Brady or Roth-burger might experience success right away and grow from then on. Other guys like Kerry Collins or Rich Gannon may take half a career for the light to turn on. I researched the data and one of the most prevalent turn around years for the better QB’s has been year four. Dozens of recent players have experienced more INT’s then TD’s, low completion%, poor yards a completion….Then year four hits, the numbers turn around and progression is shown throughout the rest of the career. Clearly a QB can look like two different people during even normal career progressions. Some things about Trent I think to be true 1. Trent is a smart person. He has a high degree of intelligence for an NFL QB 2. Trent has been hit a ton with Stanford and Buffalo 3. Trent has a very quick release 4. Trent chooses to check down at a very high percentage 6. Trent has shown he can be accurate 7. Trent has shown he can lead 4th quarter comebacks 7. Trent has not shown he's capable of generating a lot of points 8. Trent has had poor direction and coaching, if nothing else from lack of consistency 9. Trent has regressed 10. Trent gets Injured Trent is a smart guy, he picked up the system quickly. He was a blank slate. Being hit a ton at Stanford he developed one of the quickest releases in football. In that situation, his senior year, Stanford took a NCAA worst 50 sacks. So he also understood the value of checking it down. As a smart player he came in the NFL with the not to lose mentality any Rookie QB should have. He seemed to know his role precisely. Our sack rates dropped dramatically when he replaced JP. He moved the chains with short accurate throws, and yes, plenty of check downs. He even gave us actual hope by making big time NFL throws against Washington and Jacksonville. As time passed people wondered, why can't we score?????? It's part of the maturation of most quarterbacks to have some early success. The hard part is adjusting once the defensive coordinators have adjusted to you. At one point Trent knew his role precisely, now his role must change to create more down field opportunities. These changes were to be facilitated by the same coaching staff vilified on this board. Regardless of coaching, history shows this part of the transition to be the most difficult for any QB. If he makes it past this stage, he's a sure fire NFL QB. Not easy as we all know. What transpired was a major regression. Once decisive Trent now looked confused. He was confused before this year started, but after the changes he must have been brain mush. No confidence ensued, it created interceptions, accuracy problems, poor decisions. The line was horrid, + his confusion = higher sack rates. All this eventually leading him back to a disgusting combination or the previously mentioned problems and his safety blanket, the check down. He was then injured and now in most fans eyes is a lost cause. I don't know how Trent will do, the odds are far stacked against any QB, for Bills QB's....well... But the point is the Trent we've watched and puked over is nowhere near the Trent he actually is. Last year he was a beaten, confused QB, but he is still the same QB that many thought was the answer. This is clearly the year the numbers show as the breakthrough year for QB. It wouldn't shock me one bit to see Trent surprise a lot of people on this board. 2008 was a decent year for Trent - but you take away the line he had (which wasn't great but was better than 2009) and decide to put together a make shift line alla Jauron and you throw in all the injuries , that is a disaster for any QB i don't care if your Elway or Marino - you give a QB like Trent some protection and a good offensive coach and there's no telling what he could do - Bill Walsh told Marv he was a good QB & i'd say he knows more than any of us !! Go Bills !!!
cåblelady Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Considering my son bought an Edwards jersey last season, I hope Trent can turn it around but I'm not optimistic. Child abuse! ARRGH!
JohnC Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 2008 was a decent year for Trent - but you take away the line he had (which wasn't great but was better than 2009) and decide to put together a make shift line alla Jauron and you throw in all the injuries , that is a disaster for any QB i don't care if your Elway or Marino - you give a QB like Trent some protection and a good offensive coach and there's no telling what he could do - Bill Walsh told Marv he was a good QB & i'd say he knows more than any of us !!Go Bills !!! As you point out the season was lost before it even started when the moronic staff felt that the OL was adequate enough, even after the Peters departure. There was no way to overcome the feebleness of the line which resulted in a seige for anyone taking the snaps. The OL is the foundation for the offense; just as the DL is the foundation for the defense. During the Jauron era and prior the emphasis was placed on the skill positions before the lines were built. I'm confident that Nix understands that the prior administration in the front office had their priorities backwards and that he is going to work to change the personnel approach.
BB-Gun Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 In the 3 years at Buffalo, Trent had 3 different offensive coordinators. That is a good way to stunt a qb's progression. He has had 2 completely different o-lines, including numerous blind-side protectors. He took so many hits, which caused so many injuries. Our o-line would have shortened Brett Favre's career by many years. I don't know if Trent could have been a very good qb for us, for a long time, but the team has really messed him up. He would have to have his confidence rebuilt from the ground up, like a rookie. Hopefully, he will get his chance again to start somewhere.
BB-Gun Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 I would like to see if David Carr can have a Kerry Collins or even Todd Collins turn around. He has been learning behind Eli Manning, and that should be good for him. Maybe, he has learned and matured enough to be a good QB. I would like it if the Bills gave him a shot.
VABills Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Child abuse! ARRGH! You're not going to be happy. I have a funny feeling Trent will be given another shot this season, with a good QB coach. No I am not taking anything from AVP but he wasn't very good.
thewildrabbit Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Yes. One could point a finger of blame at the Bills in ten different directions and always be right, but they have had sub par quarterbacking, the key position to any team's success. There is a reason why none of the coaches with prior success wanted to come to Buffalo. Because they don't have a quarterback. If Peyton Manning or Tom Brady were the Bills QB , there would have been heavy competition for the head coaching position. Why? Because coaches know that it all starts with the QB. How come none of these guys have gone on to become even decent players elsewhere? The main reason for that is because once they have been beaten down game after game at the NFL level they usually Never get another solid chance to prove them selves on a great team. I can think of one exception, Jim Plunkett. Who was beaten up and injured game after game in NE and then went on to the Raiders to win a SB. The Bills could draft a QB in the first round every year for the next ten years and still never find a Payton Manning- Brett Farve- Joe Montana. Those players are legends of the game and are more rare then hens teeth. Then there is the painful truth that even if the Bills did indeed find the next NFL legend and drafted him only to see him turn into Archie Manning-David Carr- Joey Harrington and get pounded game after game into losses each week behind a poor O line, in a poor scheme, on a bad team...what sense does that make? Anyone remember Steve Young and his first two years in the NFL with the Buc's, now that was painful.
VABills Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Edwards !@#$ing sucks. Wrong, but keep playing: Brohm, rating 43.2, 0 td's, 2 Int's, 2 sacks on 31 drops = 1 sack every 15.5 Fitzpatrick , rating 67.7, 21 td's, 27 int's, 68 sacks on 802 drops = 1 sack every 11.8 Edwards, rating 77.9, 24 td's, 25 int's, 58 sacks on, 58 sacks on 884 drop = 1 out of 15.25 Edwards is far and away the best QB on staff. he will be given a shot to start again. He will also be on staff even if he isn't the starter. Too cheap and as the best of three QB's on staff will not be the odd man out.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Wrong, but keep playing: Brohm, rating 43.2, 0 td's, 2 Int's, 2 sacks on 31 drops = 1 sack every 15.5 Fitzpatrick , rating 67.7, 21 td's, 27 int's, 68 sacks on 802 drops = 1 sack every 11.8 Edwards, rating 77.9, 24 td's, 25 int's, 58 sacks on, 58 sacks on 884 drop = 1 out of 15.25 Edwards is far and away the best QB on staff. he will be given a shot to start again. He will also be on staff even if he isn't the starter. Too cheap and as the best of three QB's on staff will not be the odd man out. Really? Did you really just compare stats with Brohm even though he played one game in his whole career and it was behind a injury depleted O Line with less than 4 weeks to learn a new system and new playbook after having ZERO reps with any 1st or 2nd string offensive player leading up to that week? Then you use that as proof Trent is better? LMAO on the way people still manipulate stats to prove Trent to be better than he is... He isnt any good and Brohm without a shadow of a doubt has light years more upside at this point compared to Trent...its not even a matter of opinnion, just facts that Trent has continuously proved on the field for 3 years
VABills Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Really? Did you really just compare stats with Brohm even though he played one game in his whole career and it was behind a injury depleted O Line with less than 4 weeks to learn a new system and new playbook after having ZERO reps with any 1st or 2nd string offensive player leading up to that week? Then you use that as proof Trent is better? LMAO on the way people still manipulate stats to prove Trent to be better than he is... He isnt any good and Brohm without a shadow of a doubt has light years more upside at this point compared to Trent...its not even a matter of opinnion, just facts that Trent has continuously proved on the field for 3 years The same line that trent an fitz played behind and both put up better numbers. Brohm was the 4th best Qb on the Gb packers. the fact that they stashed him on the practice squad after drafting in the 2nd round means he has some serious issues.
VanCity Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 WOW! You're asking me to choose between Brett Favre and Trent Edwards (or Trent Dilfer, or Brad Johnson, or Kelly Holcomb)? Brett Favre has won a Super Bowl, and has been the aknowledged leader of some excellent, and exciting (that's important) teams that have gone deep into the playoffs. He raises the level of play of all the players around him. Call it presence, charisma, leadership, I don't care (just PLEASE don't call it swagger!), but it IS important! He never missed a game in 19 seasons. He holds many of the all-time passing records (yeah, even interceptions). He is a first ballot Hall of Famer, whose career is woven into the folklore of NFL history, blahblahblah.... Brett Favre is truly the opposite of Trent Edwards. I can't even imagine how much better the Bills would have been if they would've had Favre as their QB for the last 19 seasons. You're out of your mind. If you re-read what I said, I asked if you wanted a "ballsier Favre", not Favre. He is ballsy enough for me and a player of his caliber would, as you have stated, be a welcome change over any of the qb's we have seen in Buffalo since Jimbo. That being said, I don't see a qb who is willing to throw it into tight coverage to always be that much of a necessity. I am in the business of risk assessment and that is not a highly insurable risk.
Albany,n.y. Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Really? Did you really just compare stats with Brohm even though he played one game in his whole career and it was behind a injury depleted O Line with less than 4 weeks to learn a new system and new playbook after having ZERO reps with any 1st or 2nd string offensive player leading up to that week? Then you use that as proof Trent is better? LMAO on the way people still manipulate stats to prove Trent to be better than he is... He isnt any good and Brohm without a shadow of a doubt has light years more upside at this point compared to Trent...its not even a matter of opinnion, just facts that Trent has continuously proved on the field for 3 years This is really sad. Brohm has more upside because he hasn't proven yet in Buffalo that he's the same guy who was bad enough to get himself waived out of the NFL last September. The reality is Edwards is better than Brohm-put them both on waivers & see which one gets claimed 1st-it would be Edwards. That being said, Edwards is just too injury prone to be counted on for anything. He pulled a Rob Johnson by getting injured in one series when Fewell put him in to replace Fitzpatrick. Speaking of Fewell, look at what he did this season & you get a clue into what the guys who saw all 3 QBs every day thought of them. Under Fewell, Edwards was banished to the bench only to return for 1 brief series where he got injured. Fitzpatrick was thought of as clearly the best of the 3 by Fewell & his staff. Brohm was thought of as the guy Fewell was scared to death of putting on the field. If Fewell thought Brohm had anything, he would have started the final game. But as soon as Fitzpatrick could walk & chew gum at the same time, Brohm was back on the bench. That leaves us where we are today. Fitzpatrick is the best of this sorry bunch, and most would agree that he's nothing more than a decent #2 QB. Edwards can be very good (see 1st 6 games 2008) or very bad (see 2009), but the bottom line is he's such a china doll that no team can count on him long term. Worse, Edwards can't even be relied on as a backup who can keep the team competitive for a few games because he's odds on to go down with an injury even if he's just backing up. But if the Bills bring in a rookie past the 1st round to develop as 3rd stringer, Chan might be willing to have Edwards as his 2nd stringer one more year. Brohm doesn't have any upside-if he's lucky he gets to hang around as 3rd stringer like Gibran for a couple of seasons. Just because the coaching staff knew he wasn't ready & tried to protect him doesn't mean he has upside. All 32 teams said no to the guy last September, otherwise he couldn't have cleared waivers & ended up on a practice squad to begin with. Second round picks with upside don't clear waivers a year after they were drafted. If the Bills draft a developmental QB past the 2nd round, Brohm is toast & might not even make it to camp. Now where do we go tomorrow? Since Fitzpatrick is the only guy they can have any faith in, they have to keep him as #2, but he's no #1. For #1 we have to either draft a QB in the 1st round, trade for one, or pick up an older guy as a stopgap who might become a salary dump by another team. In any case, Brohm is nothing more than a 3rd stringer next year, grateful to be on an NFL roster. He could end up getting cut next May if a developmental draft choice wh was chosen by Buddy & Chan shows enough in the 1st mini camp. The though of Brohm competing for the starter's job is lunacy. Worse, if he does go into camp with a shot, it means that Buddy Nix failed us miserably in the offseason. I do not expect Buddy to fail us & if Brohm makes it to July, he will be getting as many reps this summer as Gibran got last summer. Also, let's not forget Gibran. If he goes to camp & we have a rookie #1 pick, don't be surprised if Chan & Buddy see Gibran as a better mentor as 3rd stringer than Brohm & Gibran makes the team over Brohm. In the rookie #1 draft choice scenario Edwards is long gone by training camp.
Geno Smith's Arm Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 If you re-read what I said, I asked if you wanted a "ballsier Favre", not Favre. He is ballsy enough for me and a player of his caliber would, as you have stated, be a welcome change over any of the qb's we have seen in Buffalo since Jimbo. That being said, I don't see a qb who is willing to throw it into tight coverage to always be that much of a necessity. I am in the business of risk assessment and that is not a highly insurable risk. That explains a lot.
Geno Smith's Arm Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Technically, via trading their 1st-round picks, the Bills also spent 1st-round picks on Rob Johnson in 1998, and Drew Bledsoe in 2003 - both supposed 'known' entities - and got burned both times. QBs are a huge gamble (see Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Heath Schuler, Jim Druckenmiller, et al), and all the so-called 'can't miss' first-round QB prospects in this year's draft have question marks, IMHO. Edwards is 'cooked'. Draft a LT, and start building an o-line that can keep Brohm/Fitzpatrick/QB-to-be-named upright long enough to find Evans/Owens/WR-to-be-named down field. I don't consider those cases the same. I supposed I should have used the term "drafted" but I forgot that you are on this board Senator. Yeah, I know the risks, but this organization hasn't placed enough importance on finding a QB. Again, why not draft a guy now, let him sit, an enhance the line as we go? QB's take a while. Much more time efficient, no?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 The same line that trent an fitz played behind and both put up better numbers. Brohm was the 4th best Qb on the Gb packers. the fact that they stashed him on the practice squad after drafting in the 2nd round means he has some serious issues. Oh come on man...you just showed you obviously dont know what you are talking about...one, its no where near the same line that Trent played behind, not even remotely close. Second, Brohm was not the 4th QB in GB, he was the third and only a SECOND year player. Third, he had literally 3 days to learn our system and build rapport with our offense. Your comparison is so freaking biased and to top it off you clearly dont know anything about Brohm other than we got him from a practice squad. Here is a little insight for you...GB only had room for 2 QB's given their needs at other positions and obviously Rodgers was QB1 and they loved Flynn and said they felt he was more ready to play if Rodgers went down during Brohms rookie year. By year two, he had no real shot of replacing Flynn who had a full year as the number 2, especially given how high GB is on Flynn. GB, (DESPITE having Rodgers entrenched and loving Flynn) still tried to keep him when we signed him away. Trent Edwards hasnt done anything in the NFL...and guess what, he didnt do squat in Colleger either. Here is some more info on Trent: 1, just 1 measly 300 yard game since HIGH SCHOOL and that was his first year of college, none since in college or NFL. His Senior year at Stanford the won just ONE game...and guess what, he did NOT play in that win...he missed that game and it was the only game they won. Sound familiar? Kind of like this year...couldnt get a win with him, then Fitzy comes in and wins some games with an even worse team then Trent had because we had so many injuries. So please just stop with this Trent garbage. He hasnt been good at any level since high school, he doesnt win games, he cant carry a team, doesnt throw down field, has accomplished nothing in college or NFL, has a marginal arm at best, is highly inaccurate downfield, floats balls way too high going deep, has terrible field vision, poor decision maker, makes the O line worse, checks down all the time, and doesnt have the temperment to lead this team. Not to mention none of his teammates or coaches have any confidence in him either. The only sad success Trent excuse makers have to point out is our start last year...well news flash, he wasnt very good at all in 3 of our wins, and just ok in the other 2. We had to even make last minute comebacks against 3 of the worst teams in football, which Trent gets way too much credit for since it was plays by Mitchell, Lynch, and ST that made all of those comebacks possible. He gets so much credit that biased fans ignore his horrible play in the first 3 quarters of each of those games which is why we had to make comebacks to begin with. My grandma has more upside as the QB of the bills than Trent at this point...Brohm has light years more upside than Trent too...
.thumb.png.1b7fb4086290c3afc001a7900b31fab0.png)
Recommended Posts