state of the union address

[pBills]

Obama campaigned on this, so he should make it happen. I don't think there's any way to predict the results until it's in place. Drop the policy and let them be who they are or want to be in public. Let's see what happens. Worst case scenario, the military eventually comprises homosexuals, we invade Yemen with a Gay Pride Parade like they have in San Francisco -- complete with them dressed in drag, flaunting their new sequinned boas -- and terrorists just quit right in their tracks. No one dies. Everyone is happy.

 

 

Dumb.

[Adam]

I am going to watch this sham of soon to be broken promises for two reasons-

To see the hilarious facial expressions and body language of Nancy Pelosi.

To see if Joe Wilson yells "you lie".

I would love to see the pre-Brown version of the speech vs what we get tonight. I Suspect 8 heath care pages where thrown out.

That is about an hour I will never get back. I can't recall much of anything substantial being said at a State of the Union address. The people saying that Obama hasn't done anything about the economy are as DUMB as the ones blaming Bush for the recession/near depression. But then again, that is what I have come to expect from the people of our country.

 

Maybe Bush could have lessened the recession with some more oversight on the large corporations, but that wasn't the way he governed, nor the way he was elected to govern. Whether we like it or not, the United States doesn't exist in a vacuum, no matter how deluded we are about being so high and mighty. The world has been going through an economic down cycle and it was bound to affect us no matter what our government did.

 

As par as the comments I have heard about Pelosi....why bother. She is as easy a target as Bush was....its a waste of time, like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Its high time that the American people stop wasting time criticizing every move their least favorite politicians make- and look in the mirror, because the American people are the root of the political problem- the politicians just act on what will get a vote.

[pBills]

That is about an hour I will never get back. I can't recall much of anything substantial being said at a State of the Union address. The people saying that Obama hasn't done anything about the economy are as DUMB as the ones blaming Bush for the recession/near depression. But then again, that is what I have come to expect from the people of our country.

 

Maybe Bush could have lessened the recession with some more oversight on the large corporations, but that wasn't the way he governed. Whether we like it or not, the United States doesn't exist in a vacuum, no matter how deluded we are about being so high and mighty. The world has been going through an economic down cycle and it was bound to affect us no matter what our government did.

 

As par as the comments I have heard about Pelosi....why bother. She is as easy a target as Bush was....its a waste of time, like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

Its high time that the American people stop wasting time criticizing every move their least favorite politicians make- and look in the mirror, because the American people are the root of the political problem- the politicians just act on what will get a vote.

 

 

[Peevo]

umm, no.

 

 

For clarification, I meant "remember from history class," not "remember, as in, we were alive to see that."

 

Sorry, but it really did happen.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-packing

 

Also, here's some info on Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach, the 18 year veteran of the Air Force who was fired, not because of his performance, but because he's gay. Any other business would be in serious trouble under Equal Opportunity Employment laws.

 

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/05/2...hting-to-serve/

[PastaJoe]

The bigger issue is the one I had with "Don't ask, don't tell" to begin with: the military should not be used as a mechanism for driving social reform. If society isn't ready to accept gays, forcing the military to isn't going to change that.

 

You don't think integrating black and white units helped changed the minds of some whites in the military who otherwise may never have interacted closely with blacks, and then taken their new perspective back home with them? In this case, the military is behind the general public, and would not be driving reform, but catching up to the general public.

[Adam]

The bigger issue is the one I had with "Don't ask, don't tell" to begin with: the military should not be used as a mechanism for driving social reform. If society isn't ready to accept gays, forcing the military to isn't going to change that.

 

Having said that..."Don't ask, don't tell" was one of the most idiotic decisions to come out of the presidency in a while. In true Clinton fashion, it was a compromise designed to be as inoffensive as possible that offended everyone and resulted in absolutely nothing meaningful.

Don't ask, don't tell serves no purpose other than to put more mental strain on troops that are in a life or death situation. It is something that never should have passed. Not a fan of Clinton and I thought he really showed his true face during the primaries.

[DC Tom]

You don't think integrating black and white units helped changed the minds of some whites in the military who otherwise may never have interacted closely with blacks, and then taken their new perspective back home with them?

 

Not the same thing. Military units weren't integrated as a social reform, they were integrated as a matter of military necessity early in Korea. The racial integration of the military wasn't a social experiment forced on them by a higher and clueless authority. And even then...judging by Vietnam and the military's reaction to the racial issues that came out of that, there's a strong case to be made that the military lagged the civil rights movement by as much as a couple of decades.

 

(Which also belies the point that the racial segregation of the military before then was necessary - but that's a different topic. Suffice to say, the integration of the military didn't happen before it was practical.)

 

In this case, the military is behind the general public, and would not be driving reform, but catching up to the general public.

 

Debatable, given the national pants-wetting surrounding gay marriage. And highly debatable in the particular context of the weak, wishy-washy "Don't ask, don't tell", which is what I was complaining about. You're really going to argue that the military was behind the general public twenty years ago on gay rights issues? Or did you just not read my post?

[Mr_Blizzard]

What's the over/under on length of the speech?

 

What's the over/under on delays for applause?

 

What's the over/under on camera shots of Scott Brown?

 

What's the over/under on how many times Obama refers to himself?

 

I was going to watch the speech, but there was a real good info-mercial on another channel . . .

[DC Tom]

Don't ask, don't tell serves no purpose other than to put more mental strain on troops that are in a life or death situation. It is something that never should have passed. Not a fan of Clinton and I thought he really showed his true face during the primaries.

 

I disagree. I think it serves no purpose, period. It's a dodge around addressing the actual issue, and simply sweeps it under the rug (it literally says "Let's just not talk about it, and pretend it doesn't exist").

 

In true Clinton fashion...it pretty much set the tone for his entire administration's "ignore it and hope it goes away" doctrine.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I was going to respond with something very similar...those are my thoughts.

 

I've never been in the military so I won't pretend to speak from any sort of experience on what sorts of issues an openly gay soldier might cause, but I think its a childish and self-centered approach to allow it to be a problem. You don't like that a fellow soldier is gay? So what. Grow up and do your job.

 

 

 

And KD...we gotta do something about your signature, bud. I read it for the first time today and for a minute I started wondering when I said something so stupid. You're killin me...

 

Know what I love about this debate? Most of the tools who are pro- queer soldiers serving openly never served themselves.

[Adam]

I disagree. I think it serves no purpose, period. It's a dodge around addressing the actual issue, and simply sweeps it under the rug (it literally says "Let's just not talk about it, and pretend it doesn't exist").

 

In true Clinton fashion...it pretty much set the tone for his entire administration's "ignore it and hope it goes away" doctrine.

I can agree with that. But we need the best soldiers are the ones that should be out there- regardless of orientation- people that feel uneasy about being around someone with a different orientation need to get over themselves

[RkFast]

I understand a gay perosn desire to be able to come out....but I also hope that all the folks pining for dont ask dont tell to go away realize that even HETEROsexual relations in the military will get your ass severely reprimanded.

[Adam]

I understand a gay perosn desire to be able to come out....but I also hope that all the folks pining for dont ask dont tell to go away realize that even HETEROsexual relations in the military will get your ass severely reprimanded.

As they should

[keepthefaith]

I understand a gay perosn desire to be able to come out....but I also hope that all the folks pining for dont ask dont tell to go away realize that even HETEROsexual relations in the military will get your ass severely reprimanded.

 

Yes. Politically speaking, I think Republicans should support gays in the Military and civil unions for gays (don't call it marriage). We've got bigger fish to fry and the time and energy spent arguing over this is not worth it IMO.

[Adam]

Yes. Politically speaking, I think Republicans should support gays in the Military and civil unions for gays (don't call it marriage). We've got bigger fish to fry and the time and energy spent arguing over this is not worth it IMO.

Republicans or Americans?

[LeviF]

Know what I love about this debate? Most of the tools who are pro- queer soldiers serving openly never served themselves.

Not trying to get argument-ably involved here, but have military commanders/generals come out with any arguments against repealing don't ask don't tell? Just curious at this point. I can't remember seeing any.

[DC Tom]

Not trying to get argument-ably involved here, but have military commanders/generals come out with any arguments against repealing don't ask don't tell? Just curious at this point. I can't remember seeing any.

 

Only one I recall hearing is "it's bad for morale".

 

I don't know to what degree that's true (some, I'd imagine). But it's a valid point - high morale is more important than having the best equipment to a fighting force.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Not trying to get argument-ably involved here, but have military commanders/generals come out with any arguments against repealing don't ask don't tell? Just curious at this point. I can't remember seeing any.

 

I personally can live with don't ask, don't tell. It's better than BO's alternative.

[Adam]

I personally can live with don't ask, don't tell. It's better than BO's alternative.

Do you want the defense spending frozen too? Could you live with that.........

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Do you want the defense spending frozen too? Could you live with that.........

 

Not thinking before typing again, I see. Nowhere has a spending freeze on the military been discussed.