Ex-Pro Athlete SLAMS Haiti relief effort...

[VADC Bills]

I wonder how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

I know many conservatives and liberals that care about others.

Not sure where he is coming from but thats his perogative.

[renfruzetz]

I guess I am the only one who thought the article was written "tongue-in-cheek".

[....lybob]

If he knew anything about the history of Haiti he would know that Haiti has been getting the short end of the stick for 200+ years ( being forced to pay reparations to the French -21 billion in todays money for winning their freedom), being occupied, embargoed, meddled with, exploited, used as pawns in struggles between the Great powers in the 1930s and 1940s- later having the Misfortune of having corrupt and/or incompetent leadership (something we are starting to experience more and more in this country)- Now on to the population issue- in poor countries where farming or very simple manufacturing is how people make a living children are a economic necessity they provide the labor for farms or small shops and they are expected to take care of their elderly parents- these places don't have social safety nets and most people don't make enough income to save a huge nest egg- what Haiti will get is food, water, clothing and temporary shelter- what Haiti needs is all those things plus education, infrastructure, and intelligent and moral governance.

[Orton's Arm]

PLEASE read this and share your thoughts on this article and how it relevantly relates to the situation in Haiti.

 

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010...ians-use-condom

Most people responded to the Haiti disaster with an outpouring of emotion and, consequently, of aid. Shirley responded with logic. To some, that latter form of response may seem lacking in warmth and compassion. Perhaps there is some truth to that. Shirley is an engineer by training--a category of people not always noted for getting all warm and fuzzy.

 

But we should not be quick to assume that the emotion-based response that the average person has to the Haiti disaster is necessarily superior in all respects to Shirley's logical approach. Without cold, hard logic, it will be impossible to solve the long-term problems in Haiti Shirley so eloquently described.

 

Ultimately, compassion and logic are most useful when joined together, with the latter placed in service of the former. Without compassion, we would not care enough to make the effort to solve Haiti's long-term problems in the first place. Without logic, we would only address short-term problems. An emotion-driven approach would entail handing the Haitians fish, rather than teaching them to fish. Or, perhaps more to the point, the emotion-driven approach would fail to teach the Haitians to have fewer children, thus reducing their need for fish.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

the only problem i have with the money being sent there is it is probably 10 times what the country makes in a year. the majority of the houses there are made of sheet metal and other things they found. and the last time i checked those things dont cost billions of dollars. what is the saying give a man a fish and he eats for a day teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. ok give them some supplies and some food, but put them to work to fix their own stuff. hell the wind tore up part of my roof and i have snow in my house with no heat but noone is on my roof fixing it but me with my money, not handouts

 

Yeah, that's the same thing as what's happening around Port Au Prince...parts of some roofs got torn off and the stupid locals are just too lazy to fix it themselves

 

Numbnuts, most of the money being donated isn't currently being used to improve infrastructure. Food, clean water, medicine, temporary shelters, search and rescue efforts...that's where the money's going.

 

Do you even understand the difference between handouts and aid? Save the Ayn Rand bull honky for a different time...people are dying, children are dying of starvation, disease, infection...BY THE !@#$ING MINUTE

 

Do yourself a favor...do some actual research on the situation, instead of just blindly applying your BS "yep, get er done, pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality to a situation where it doesnt even come close to applying. Better yet, open up a history book and learn exaclty why Haiti is so goddamn poor in the first place.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Alright, this is the stuff I like. Thanks for responding. Notice nowhere in my brief post did I say that every registered Republican in the United States is unable to feel compassion for the less fortunate. Tim Tebow, for instance, I'm guessing is a Republican because he is all about JC. That guys embodies what JC was intended to be all about. Sadly, he is in the vast, vast minority. The connection between JC and Republicans? I have no idea, but the vastly superior Republican marketing machine has been able to convince simple-minded Americans who do not think for themselves that JC would've walked into a voting booth last November, sandals, robe and all, and cast a vote for a ticket that had Sarah Palin on it. At any rate, you may be a conservative for fiscal reasons or whatever and that's fine, but just remember, you're voting for the same leaders as Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Mel Gibson, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and Larry the Cable Guy. And if you really don't think that as a GENERAL RULE in 2010, a so-called "liberal" in the United States doesn't tend to be more compassionate, friendly, giving, caring, open-minded than a "conservative" then you are not worth arguing with. Please take me up on that bet by the way! 10 to 1 odds, I'm sure we could find out rather easily. Email me personally.

 

hogwash my (now i'm assuming) liberal friend!

 

the problem with your thesis is that we both live by the same set of rules, electorally speaking, and while I may be voting for the same cast of characters as outlined---my choices, like yours, are fairly limited. as disdainful as you find the thought processes of those mentioned, i find equally disdainful the likes of far left talking heads (let's go with Al Franken, Reverend Wright, Rosie O'Donnell, Barrack Obama, and Ed Schultz. I can't think of a comedian off the top of my head to compare to Larry the Cable Guy because I don't spend much time in that arena any more). Do they represent mainstream liberal points of view? Yet, if you voted for BO, one can only assume you aligned with their leadership. So, we all deal with that issue on one level or another.

 

I'd think if we sat and had a beer summit, we would likey both agree that JC is painted as aligned with the republican party because it suits the needs of both parties. The old "family values" issue resonates with conservatives because many decent, hard-working people think of their only family situation with pride(as do i), even in spite of the lofty standard one must aspire to to be the candidate that represents family values. speaking only for myself, a campaign slogan is wonderful, but i try to look beyond that. so, larry craig can run all day long on family values, but his personal actions lead me to believe that he's a dangerous person to have in a position of power. and, i don't think a democrat candidate is necessarily bad, but is it fair to suggest that poor candidates on either side should be tossed out on their ears? i'll agree to toss out larry craig, will you agree to toss out charile rangle?

 

the machine of the democrats also works to paint republican candidates as the party of JC as well, if for no other reason than when they fall---as some invariably will, it's easy to suggest 'republican = hypocrite'. plus, they get to appeal to all those people who see someone like George W. Bush as a craaaaaazy right wing religious wacko. that's fine, that's politics, i can make up my own mind---but it's true and has as much to do with the democrat machine as the republican, just for different reasons.

 

i found it very interesting that during the jm/bo election cycle, the demo machine allowed bo to cast himself as a church going man, a man of faith, but somehow not a religious nut job. in fact, the machine did a pretty good job of telling folk that bo's affiliation with a not-so-mainstream church was no big deal. so, Jesus cycle's in and out of favor, politically-speaking.

 

Speaking of machines, if for a moment you saw Barrack Obama as anything other than an inexperienced candidate who fit the suit at the right point in time----I'd be surprised myself. A short term senator who became famous for being famous, and his success was largely based on the entrenched machine.

 

I was careful to choose my words carefully when I replied initially because quite honestly, I wasn't looking for a fight or to offend you. I am who I am, I'm good with that, and I respect your right to follow your own course. I have friends that are quite liberal, and I can't quite figure out how such otherwise intelligent people are so naive. They think the same of me, I'm sure.

 

In closing, 2 things----your bet is impossible to win, and I'm not a betting man. I work hard for my $$ and like to keep what the man isn't already pilfering in taxation. Besides, I just don't see the benefit. That aside, conservative republican types are traditionally quite generous. Interestingly, when I last compared notable public figures like the hated George W. Bush, Bill and Hillary Clinton, John and Theresa Kerry, and our very own Barrack Obama---old W gave a much higher percentage to charity than any of the others by a wide margin. As I recall, Bill and Hill earned something like $110m in a ten or 11 year period and found a way to part with only 4 or 5% of that vast wealth, while Old W clicked along pretty well at 10% of a much smaller number. My question is--if the working people are being victimized by evil corporations---why not take $60 or $70 million of that money and do something with it? Bill and Hill would still have $20mill or so after taxes---you can't live on that when ____________ is being victimized by ________???? Is it just that the cost of living is higher in Chappaqua???

 

 

And finally, my friend, let's speak of the great liberal lion! The now deceased Ted Kennedy, he of drunken rowdiness, he of "i hope there's 12 hours of air in that car!", he of "alternative energy is a great thing so long as my view isn't obstructed!"----i believe his public disclosure placed his net worth between $50 and $80 million. I'm never quite sure how a sitting 50 year senator amasses a fortune like that, but I do know that in death---the moral conscious of the federal government, well, it would have been a very notable event had he decided to give each of his kids $500k to get 'em started, left a few mill for his wives, and given the rest of that fortune built on bootlegging and the backs of the American working man to health care or to help battered women!

 

But again....everyone else has to figure that out, he's just the voice of reason.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

If he knew anything about the history of Haiti he would know that Haiti has been getting the short end of the stick for 200+ years ( being forced to pay reparations to the French -21 billion in todays money for winning their freedom), being occupied, embargoed, meddled with, exploited, used as pawns in struggles between the Great powers in the 1930s and 1940s- later having the Misfortune of having corrupt and/or incompetent leadership (something we are starting to experience more and more in this country)- Now on to the population issue- in poor countries where farming or very simple manufacturing is how people make a living children are a economic necessity they provide the labor for farms or small shops and they are expected to take care of their elderly parents- these places don't have social safety nets and most people don't make enough income to save a huge nest egg- what Haiti will get is food, water, clothing and temporary shelter- what Haiti needs is all those things plus education, infrastructure, and intelligent and moral governance.

 

you speak the truth as i understand it. i think it's fair to look at Haiti and ask "Where was their hero??" anywhere along the last couple hundred years. the fact that things played out the way they did is tragic, but why would that make me feel any less for an orphaned child living in squalid conditions?

 

and Lordy, that deal with the French was pretty bad.

[Big Turk]

He makes some valid points. However, there are some issues he doesn't address, such as the literacy rate of the population which is likely very low, which just continues the vicious cycle of poverty, and the fact that bad things are bound to happen at some point in time no matter where you live in the world. I agree there need to be shown ho to rebuild things properly, but the bigger issue lies with the education of the population.

[....lybob]

He makes some valid points. However, there are some issues he doesn't address, such as the literacy rate of the population which is likely very low, which just continues the vicious cycle of poverty, and the fact that bad things are bound to happen at some point in time no matter where you live in the world. I agree there need to be shown ho to rebuild things properly, but the bigger issue lies with the education of the population.

 

The literacy rate is around 5% which is why I have education down as the first thing they need after survival aid.

[Thurman#1]

I know there is another place for this post, but I think it deserves to be posted right where I have put it. For the sole purpose that I only associate with the people in this specific forum and I do not think I have ever posted elsewhere. Therefore, I would like some feedback, thoughts and comments from all or as many of you, as I can get to read this and chime in.

 

This article just completely twisted my brain and flabbergasted me. I am in "Awe" and astounded that a professional athlete, who has gotten so much out of life, a majority of which I am sure was free, could say such things as he does in this article. However, I kind of, and I don't know why, agree with some of the points he tries to get across. Actually, the only thing that sticks out in my mind, like my Mother said a week ago, is why don't we teach these people about "birth control?"

 

That is the only thing I will comment on, is the birth control, until I see how others feel. I do not want to offend anybody.

 

 

PLEASE read this and share your thoughts on this article and how it relevantly relates to the situation in Haiti.

 

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2010...ians-use-condom

 

 

 

*This is something new to talk about. Something to take our minds off of our inept front office and the lackluster offseason our beloved Buffalo Bills have embarked on. There is nothing religious or political about this either. Please try to keep it that way, as well as somewhat positive, serious and non-offensive. (May be VERY hard to do, but please just try?)

 

 

THANK YOU - I hope to hear from MANY of you on this specific topic. (Not Haiti itself, but the article about the disaster.)

 

Sincerely,

Byrdman

 

 

 

A number of years ago, I worked for an organization in D.C. that tried to get the government to include more funds in the A.I.D. budget to allow people to teach birth control in the Third World. There was overwhelming conservative opposition, largely because a lot of the organizations which recieved the money to teach birth control were also involved in abortion.

 

Many many of the people being taught literally had never known that birth control was possible, except for premature withdrawal, which is a very ineffective method.

 

Even when those organizations promised not to use the A.I.D. money for abortions, the conservatives consistently tried to gut that part of the budget.

 

There was a lot of opposition from Catholics, too, on the grounds that anything but the rhythm method was wrong, and from lefties saying that teaching people from other cultures birth control was hidden racism, a way of trying to lower the numbers of people of other races, and was condescending as well.

 

All of it seemed insane to me, but Reagan cut the budget to zero, but our organization (and others) got it restored to the previous level in Congress, but couldn't get it increased.

[jack_spikes]

First let me say I'm American and I love this country but let's not forget or rewrite history. Much of the money used to set up some of the biggest companies and industries in the U.S. came off of the back of slaves not from their lazy slave master owners who were to lazy to pick cotton or do what ever other hard work there was to do themselves. Just because someone is poor doesn't make them lazy. Do you know how huch minimum wage in Haiti is 3 dollars a day. Not an hour but per day and many gladly work those jobs because it is all they have. Would you do well on that?

 

I suppose the colonists fron Great Britain who took the U.S. from the Native Americans were to lazy to take over one of the other European countries which had weapons comparable to theirs to fight back with, unlike the Native Americans.

For someone admonishing others not to forget or rewrite history, you sound as if you could read some history yourself. I take issue with your statement which includes "colonists from Great Britain". You mean European don't you? Besides, England didn't become the United Kingdom of Great Britain until 1801, a full quarter century after the American Declaration of Independence. As for a minimum wage of $3 a day, isn't that entirely the fault of the Haitian government? A better question is why does the US continue to prop up such a government?

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

Maybe Shirley's parents should have used a condom.

Your argument is irrelevant because the difference is...his parents could afford to feed him, clothe him, shelter him and educate him.

 

Think before you speak.

 

 

As for everybody else, I am so happy to see the wide variety of opinions and thoughts. I am happy that everybody has been, for the most part, positive in their contributions to this post.

 

I am happy this post worked out!

[bbb]

Last year, I saw this Zambian woman, who is very easy on the eyes btw, on Charlie Rose, I believe. She criticized all the aid that goes to Africa, and people like Bob, Bill & Melinda Gates, etc.......Seems her arguments are similar to what this Shirley (who I read got canned now from espn) is saying:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190375

[Not the real Gale Gilbert]

Interesting article, but I thought it had a couple of flaws. First, and maybe I'm naive, but I'm not sure that the outpouring of support to Haiti was due to the US population getting whacked over the head by politicos and celebrities to give. That lame telethon came a week after the event, anyway. Disasters don't discriminate, and if Port-au-Prince had a lower incidence of poverty, citizens of the city would still need help. If a natural disaster happened in my neck of the woods, I would hope that people elsewhere would help out.

 

In the short term, money needs to go to food and water. I don't care if you're neighborhood/city/country is rich or poor, an earthquake/hurricane/tsunami, will shut down power sources and contaminate water systems anywhere. People who would otherwise have means to help themselves would not have the ability in that instance. In the long term, when the initial wave of human angst is overcome, the extra income needs to be invested in new technologies to help prevent the same devestation. Additionally, if relief money is devoted to making ravaged areas a nicer place to live, they will have less incentive to attempt to flee to the US, or somewhere else. The Red Cross, or other American-based relief groups, need to have an overseer holding local governments accountable for how they spend their money. I hope that this base is covered already, because if it is, then I feel better about how donation money will be spent.

 

New Orleans, Port-au-Prince, the immense area affected by the 2004 tsunami- all of them don't have to go the way of Pompeii. Hopefully, a decent percentage of the relief dollars will help them better withstand the next disaster.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Nice how this arrogant, self-righteous big mouth who probably grew up in a comfortable situation as compared to the Haitian people could say such ignorant things.

 

People who have this opinion normally have the means to succeed, or don't have to get on a boat and make a beeline for a better place just to have a decent chance at surviving past their 40th birthday. My, my, my how easy it is to criticize when you have the basics... and the reason why I loathe conservatism; it is built upon looking down from a better position and lacking in compassion.

 

I am here in Haiti, and I was before the quake... and the situation remains the same- the infrastructure was rotten, dictators muscled the people and got fat, and now slow progress is shattered by an earthquake that blew apart the myriad of rotten parts of the city, and has cut off aid to the mountainous part of the country.

 

Tell these children who are innocent that you don't care about them.... tell the babies that suffer, starve, and die that you don't care about them. You may be able to defend his right to speak, but you can NEVER defend someone who treats fellow human beings with such contempt and utter disregard for their lives.

[Booster4324]

Nice how this arrogant, self-righteous big mouth who probably grew up in a comfortable situation as compared to the Haitian people could say such ignorant things.

 

People who have this opinion normally have the means to succeed, or don't have to get on a boat and make a beeline for a better place just to have a decent chance at surviving past their 40th birthday. My, my, my how easy it is to criticize when you have the basics... and the reason why I loathe conservatism; it is built upon looking down from a better position and lacking in compassion.

 

I am here in Haiti, and I was before the quake... and the situation remains the same- the infrastructure was rotten, dictators muscled the people and got fat, and now slow progress is shattered by an earthquake that blew apart the myriad of rotten parts of the city, and has cut off aid to the mountainous part of the country.

 

Tell these children who are innocent that you don't care about them.... tell the babies that suffer, starve, and die that you don't care about them. You may be able to defend his right to speak, but you can NEVER defend someone who treats fellow human beings with such contempt and utter disregard for their lives.

 

You are a good man. He has the right to speak, you (and I) have the right to label him a contemptible human being.

[NobesBLO13]

Nice how this arrogant, self-righteous big mouth who probably grew up in a comfortable situation as compared to the Haitian people could say such ignorant things.

 

People who have this opinion normally have the means to succeed, or don't have to get on a boat and make a beeline for a better place just to have a decent chance at surviving past their 40th birthday. My, my, my how easy it is to criticize when you have the basics... and the reason why I loathe conservatism; it is built upon looking down from a better position and lacking in compassion.

 

I am here in Haiti, and I was before the quake... and the situation remains the same- the infrastructure was rotten, dictators muscled the people and got fat, and now slow progress is shattered by an earthquake that blew apart the myriad of rotten parts of the city, and has cut off aid to the mountainous part of the country.

 

Tell these children who are innocent that you don't care about them.... tell the babies that suffer, starve, and die that you don't care about them. You may be able to defend his right to speak, but you can NEVER defend someone who treats fellow human beings with such contempt and utter disregard for their lives.

Great post. What brought you to Haiti if you don't mind me asking?

[Clippers of Nfl]

i was expecting a lot worse from reading the entire article... hes still a jerk! i do have to say if i was in the public eye, and i had the same opinions as him (which i dont), i sure as hell wouldnt like to be the messanger for this dumb thinking.

 

either way its still a dumb thing to write. i bet you one thing, he wouldnt read this letter out loud if he was in haiti (with a translator)

[Big Turk]

I believe in a hand-up and not a hand-out and I think this whole Haitian relief effort is a massive hand-out. On the other hand, do any of us know how desperate we would quickly become without drinkable water, food, and shelter? It could happen to any of us at any time.

 

Imagine how bad it would be if it happened during winter here...add freezing cold temperatures to the list...

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Great post. What brought you to Haiti if you don't mind me asking?

 

The relief effort- I was called to duty 10 days ago, and have been on the ground for 4 days assisting in patient transfer. I was here before months ago in a humanitarian relief effort, and so I have seen both sides of it as I said, pre and post quake, all within a year.

 

I have seen a lot of things that you don't see outside a third world country- gangrene, horrible buildup of fluids in extremities, unspeakable things. I slept on the ground the first day I got here because there wasn't enough supplies for us for what we consider to be habitable quarters. Not to mention- it is horribly hot as the sun beats down on you all day long.

 

What galls me is that Nicaragua, a country we were aiding not 6 months ago, bad mouthed our efforts here. I just do not understand why some people can be so cruel, so politically motivated...