Fan in Chicago Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Bring in a draftpick QB or complete unknown (Smith, Kolb) next year, and you may get lucky, but the odds are much more likely the QB will fail behind a still young and inexperienced line. This is what the Bills have been trying and it's just not working. So, I'd be all for McNabb provided, of course, that the cost is appropriate. You make some good points. I think the argument that the drafted QB can be a bust holds true in either situation - whether or not we get McNabb. If he is a bust, we will not find out till year 2 or 3 or whenever McNabb is done. By that time, we will have built an overall good team, McNabb's career would be done and we will have a big hole at the most important position. In the other scenario, if we draft a QB, he starts NOW and he is a bust, we will still have time to salvage the situation as the rest of the team is built. But the long term potential of a decent QB is huge. My point is that if we think a can't -miss prospect is available in the draft, take him. We do however have to prioritize shoring up the OL this year. If we don't, then we should keep the QB on the bench and let the serviceable guy keep us going. Bringing McNabb behind a suspect line is marginally better than this situation, I agree, but we lose out the draft pick we give up for him. Now if we are likely to get him for a 4th rounder or lower, then perhaps there is a case to be made (which is what you said in the last line also) So, in summary, I think we need to look to boost the OL for sure. And if we manage to do that, getting a QB in the earlier rounds may be a good idea.
Bill from NYC Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Bring in a draftpick QB or complete unknown (Smith, Kolb) next year, and you may get lucky, but the odds are much more likely the QB will fail behind a still young and inexperienced line. This is what the Bills have been trying and it's just not working. But Dan, this sounds like a repeat of the Bledsoe debacle. My feeling is that someone is going to get killed behind Bell, Chambers, etc., let alone ruined. I still maintain that this team is small and weak. They are not built to play in WNY, or anyplace else where it is cold and or windy. The Bills desperately need people who can block, and defenders on the front 7 who can tackle, and make plays. Spending that kind of money on McNabb would sell a lot of tickets, but I doubt if it would produce many wins under our current circumstances. The jets did things right and are reaping the rewards. We should do the same. Jmo.
bills in va Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 I would give them Lynch, who they need with Westbrook out and a 3rd rounder. Then they are trading probowlers and we get a great QB for 3-4 years. Draft the best LT in round 1, DT or LB in round 2 and 4, more lineman in rounds 5-6 and best available with last 3 picks. I think we have 9 total picks.
Ever Since '86 Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 But Dan, this sounds like a repeat of the Bledsoe debacle. My feeling is that someone is going to get killed behind Bell, Chambers, etc., let alone ruined. I still maintain that this team is small and weak. They are not built to play in WNY, or anyplace else where it is cold and or windy. The Bills desperately need people who can block, and defenders on the front 7 who can tackle, and make plays. Spending tha tkind of money on McNabb would sell a lot of tickets, but I doubt if it would produce meny wins under our current circumstances. The jets did things right and are reaping the rewards. We should do the same. Jmo. Well one player we can cross off the can't play in bad weather list is Freddy
Dan Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 You make some good points. I think the argument that the drafted QB can be a bust holds true in either situation - whether or not we get McNabb. If he is a bust, we will not find out till year 2 or 3 or whenever McNabb is done. By that time, we will have built an overall good team, McNabb's career would be done and we will have a big hole at the most important position. In the other scenario, if we draft a QB, he starts NOW and he is a bust, we will still have time to salvage the situation as the rest of the team is built. But the long term potential of a decent QB is huge. My point is that if we think a can't -miss prospect is available in the draft, take him. We do however have to prioritize shoring up the OL this year. If we don't, then we should keep the QB on the bench and let the serviceable guy keep us going. Bringing McNabb behind a suspect line is marginally better than this situation, I agree, but we lose out the draft pick we give up for him. Now if we are likely to get him for a 4th rounder or lower, then perhaps there is a case to be made (which is what you said in the last line also) So, in summary, I think we need to look to boost the OL for sure. And if we manage to do that, getting a QB in the earlier rounds may be a good idea. I agree. Either way the new QB may fail. However, letting him groom behind the established starter, in theory, gives your coaching staff more time to determine if he has the right stuff without the stress and pressure of starting each week. Of course, though, you make a good point if there's a can't miss guy in the draft then yeah lets get him. I'm just not sure there's one of those guys this year. By all means, fixing the Oline is the priority. But, an established, experienced QB should be able to more readily adapt and play behind a learning line. But Dan, this sounds like a repeat of the Bledsoe debacle. My feeling is that someone is going to get killed behind Bell, Chambers, etc., let alone ruined. I still maintain that this team is small and weak. They are not built to play in WNY, or anyplace else where it is cold and or windy. The Bills desperately need people who can block, and defenders on the front 7 who can tackle, and make plays. Spending that kind of money on McNabb would sell a lot of tickets, but I doubt if it would produce many wins under our current circumstances. The jets did things right and are reaping the rewards. We should do the same. Jmo. The problem with the Beldsoe comparison was (1) who they got to groom and (2) how longthey gave hi mto develop. 1 year, with a broken leg, is not what I have in mind when I say lets get a young guy to develop. Without a doubt, there are plenty of areas of concern. This is just my thoughts on fixing the QB position. And by no means do I mean to suggest that bringing in a McNabb will fix the BIlls and get us to the playoffs. I did think it will go al ong way to making us relevant. What concerns me most, in all honesty, is that until we get a real HC in here, we may never get above 8-8.
Orton's Arm Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 I just heard it on the radio 40 minutes ago on my way home. Lee Hamilton said Bills and Rams offcials have held secret meetings with Eagles officials in Mobile Alabama and have interest in trading for Mcnabb. Take it for what its worth but the last time Lee reported Bills news about Jim Bates interviewing for the DC job he ended up being correct. I hope this is true. This is terrible news, and if I was GM I would not even consider such a trade. From what other posters have written, we're talking about a second round pick to get this done. It's ridiculous for a rebuilding team to trade away a second round pick for an aging vet with little left in his tank. Two to three years from now--when the rebuilding project ought to be nearing completion---McNabb's career will be very near its end. And the Bills will be out that second round pick. This is another Bledsoe trade (which had been a bad idea as well).
bkc Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 way to much. i would not trade a second rounder for anyone. a second should start as a rookie for us! or we get an top ten qb for a second round pick with 3 or 4 good years left i will take mcnabb
reddogblitz Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 It's ridiculous for a rebuilding team to trade away a second round pick for an aging vet with little left in his tank. Two to three years from now--when the rebuilding project ought to be nearing completion---McNabb's career will be very near its end. And the Bills will be out that second round pick. You and I have very different opinions on both our current team and Donovn McNabb! I don't consider the Bills to be a team in "rebuilding" mode. We're more of a team that needs to fix a few key weeknesses and then will be ready to compete for playoffs in 2010. Those being QB and offensive line and coach. Getting McNabb would fix the first. As far as McNabb being an "aging vet with little left in his tank" goes, he's the same age as Peyton Manning who is in the SB this year. Several QBs took their teams to the playoff this year his age or older, namely McNabb, Manning, Favre, and Warner. I don't know about you, but I don't consider 22 TDS and 10 picks and 3,553 YDS and a rating of 92.9 fir 2009 to be a QB with "little left in his tank".
reddogblitz Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 You and I have very different opinions on both our current team and Donovn McNabb! I don't consider the Bills to be a team in "rebuilding" mode. We're more of a team that needs to fix a few key weeknesses and then will be ready to compete for playoffs in 2010. Those being QB and offensive line and coach. Getting McNabb would fix the first. As far as McNabb being an "aging vet with little left in his tank" goes, he's the same age as Peyton Manning who is in the SB this year. 5 QBs took their teams to the playoffs this year at age 32 older, namely McNabb, Manning, Brady, Favre, and Warner. I don't know about you, but I don't consider 22 TDS and 10 picks and 3,553 YDS and a rating of 92.9 fir 2009 to be a QB with "little left in his tank".
Orton's Arm Posted January 28, 2010 Posted January 28, 2010 You and I have very different opinions on both our current team and Donovn McNabb! I don't consider the Bills to be a team in "rebuilding" mode. We're more of a team that needs to fix a few key weeknesses and then will be ready to compete for playoffs in 2010. Those being QB and offensive line and coach. Getting McNabb would fix the first. As far as McNabb being an "aging vet with little left in his tank" goes, he's the same age as Peyton Manning who is in the SB this year. Several QBs took their teams to the playoff this year his age or older, namely McNabb, Manning, Favre, and Warner. I don't know about you, but I don't consider 22 TDS and 10 picks and 3,553 YDS and a rating of 92.9 fir 2009 to be a QB with "little left in his tank". 1) Donovan McNabb is going into his 12th year in the NFL. When the Bills traded for Drew Bledsoe, he was going into his 10th year. Jim Kelly's career lasted thirteen years, including the two he spent in the USFL. I don't know how many more years you're expecting McNabb to play; but the real question is, how many more years can he play at a reasonably high level? One? Two? Maybe even three? 2) I couldn't care less about the first two years of play that McNabb can give us, because the rest of this team is in rebuilding mode. (See below.) The only question I'm worried about is, "What can McNabb do for us starting in 2012?" Versus "what can that 2nd round pick do for us in 2012 and after?" 3) This team is in rebuilding mode. This team's bright spots--the areas it probably won't have to worry about for a while--consist of the following: - The defensive secondary, which is sunshine and roses. - The interior OL (assuming we re-sign Incognito) - #2 WR/deep burner (Lee Evans) - The RB situation should be good for a few years - Two players on our front 7 (Kyle Williams and Poz) Other than those things, just about every aspect of this team is in rebuilding mode! Schobel is nearing retirement, and there's no one on the roster to replace him. The other guys on the front seven (with the exceptions of Williams and Poz) are also either close to retirement, not particularly good, or both. The defense will need to obtain five starting quality front seven players over the next two to three years. There is no proven, starting quality WR on this roster except for Evans, and he's the guy you want as your #2, not your #1. There is no quarterback, no left tackle, and the right tackle situation is iffy. While Nelson has shown potential as a TE, he has a lot to prove. Ditto Steve Johnson at WR. This team is a lot like the 2004 Bills. That team's defense was reasonably good due to a lot of aging veterans, but its offense was mediocre at best. That 2004 team was also in rebuilding mode even though TD didn't realize it. The decline in record from 2004 to 2005 was largely because the aging veterans who'd been propping the defense up in 2004 were either too old to play well or injured or retired in 2005. The same thing will happen to the Bills again in either 2010 or 2011; as our current batch of aging defensive veterans hits the wall. Add that problem to the gaping holes on offense (QB, LT, #1 WR, probably RT, etc.), and you're left looking at a team that's clearly in rebuilding mode.
weso1378 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I know for a fact that the Rams's GM really likes Vick professionally and is willing to give him a second chance.
Dan Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 1) Donovan McNabb is going into his 12th year in the NFL. When the Bills traded for Drew Bledsoe, he was going into his 10th year. Jim Kelly's career lasted thirteen years, including the two he spent in the USFL. I don't know how many more years you're expecting McNabb to play; but the real question is, how many more years can he play at a reasonably high level? One? Two? Maybe even three? ... In fairness to Kelly, he played in a time when QBs could actually get hit. So.. ya know. Bledsoe played for an additional 5 years after the trade to Buffalo; gave us the best year of football for a decade; and held the position pretty well while in Dallas for Romo to come along without being rushed. Had the Bills had any sense they wouldn't have rushed JP into the game and held onto Bledsoe and half their other players a little longer before self-inflicted rebuilds each year.
Orton's Arm Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 In fairness to Kelly, he played in a time when QBs could actually get hit. So.. ya know. Bledsoe played for an additional 5 years after the trade to Buffalo; gave us the best year of football for a decade; and held the position pretty well while in Dallas for Romo to come along without being rushed. Had the Bills had any sense they wouldn't have rushed JP into the game and held onto Bledsoe and half their other players a little longer before self-inflicted rebuilds each year. I'll grant that for his first eight games here, Bledsoe played at a Hall of Fame level. But after that he was he was mediocre. Same thing in Dallas: eight amazing games, followed by not much of anything. To illustrate this, let's look at Bledsoe's performance in Buffalo using Kelly Holcomb as a benchmark. Jonas Jennings left after the 2004 season. For that and other reasons, the Bills' offensive line was a lot weaker in 2005 than it had been during Bledsoe's time with the team. Playing behind that dilapidated line, Holcomb had 6.6 yards per pass attempt and a QB rating of 85.6. In 2002, Bledsoe exceeded those numbers: his yards per attempt was 7.1, and his QB rating was 86.0. This was the year when he had the monster half season. But then in 2003, his numbers fell to 6.1 and 73.0, both of which are well below the Holcomb standard. Bledsoe had a minor comeback in 2004, with his yards per attempt increasing to 6.5, and his rating going up to 76.6. While this was an improvement over the year before, it was still not quite up to the stats Holcomb would put up a year later. Bearing in mind that Holcomb didn't have the same line Bledsoe had, the difference becomes even more dramatic. The Bledsoe trade was an abysmal failure because--with the exception of those first eight games--Bledsoe failed to deliver the same level of performance as a second-rate free agent (Holcomb). And because that trade cost us a first round draft pick. I have no objection to the idea of keeping rookie quarterbacks on the bench while an aging veteran takes the snaps. But it's always a mistake for a rebuilding team to give up a first day draft choice to obtain an aging veteran at any position! There's usually a Holcomb-like guy floating around in free agency. And if not, there are guys on the Bills' roster--like Edwards--who could serve as a temporary stopgap while the hypothetical rookie QB is being groomed. > In fairness to Kelly, he played in a time when QBs could actually get hit. I suggest you go up to Brett Favre and tell him that quarterbacks don't get hit anymore. See how he responds!
HumbleAndHungry Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Reid likes Mcnabb too much. Donovan Mcnabb is the face of philly. I would love to have mcnabb in a bills uniform but i just cannot see him being dealt by the eagles.
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I would give them Lynch, who they need with Westbrook out and a 3rd rounder. Then they are trading probowlers and we get a great QB for 3-4 years. Draft the best LT in round 1, DT or LB in round 2 and 4, more lineman in rounds 5-6 and best available with last 3 picks. I think we have 9 total picks. The Eagles don't make that trade, they don't even come close. McNabb is a top ten player at the most difficult and most important position in the game. Lynch is a top 20 player at a position where it is easy to find top 20 players, a position where the Eagles already have a backup RB who's probably as good as Lynch. Just not going to happen.
Thurman#1 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 You and I have very different opinions on both our current team and Donovn McNabb! I don't consider the Bills to be a team in "rebuilding" mode. We're more of a team that needs to fix a few key weeknesses and then will be ready to compete for playoffs in 2010. Those being QB and offensive line and coach. Getting McNabb would fix the first. As far as McNabb being an "aging vet with little left in his tank" goes, he's the same age as Peyton Manning who is in the SB this year. Several QBs took their teams to the playoff this year his age or older, namely McNabb, Manning, Favre, and Warner. I don't know about you, but I don't consider 22 TDS and 10 picks and 3,553 YDS and a rating of 92.9 fir 2009 to be a QB with "little left in his tank". Little left in his tank doesn't refer to this year. It refers to what happens two to four years from now, and this is a very legit worry if you get McNabb. When the car only has a half a gallon left in the tank, it doesn't hurt performance right now. It doesn't hurt performance at all till the gas runs out.
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