Revis, Mangold and Harris

[GG]

Most scouting staffs in the league would not have made the selections the Bills had made, particularly in 2006 when they took Whitner and McCargo over the likes of Ngata and Mangold. If you're a season ticket holder and spend your hourly wages on whatever the Bills put out at the Team Store, I apologize for bursting your bubble.

 

100% of the scouting staffs don't make the final draft selection either, and in Buffalo they were further removed from the process. Most other teams also didn't just sign Melvin Fowler to a big FA deal and didn't have the cap administrator advise them against taking another C in the draft.

 

When you can let go of your serial thought process, then perhaps your critique would be relevant.

 

Who are you going to believe, your inner monologue again or more off the record sources:

"The one commonality in both places is an aging owner who keeps interfering too much," said one league personnel evaluator. "Ralph Wilson continually butts his nose in the football operation and tells the team who to draft. He did it with (RB) Marshawn Lynch and many others when he knows the team has a need.

[SuperKillerRobots]

Marv said they had Poz as the #1 LB

 

I thought they said he was the number one available when they're pick came up and that he was projected by them to be the number one available when we picked that year. They considered taking him instead of Lynch (or so they said). The year lynch was drafted I remember thinking that it would finally be the year we took a stud in the first round of the draft (Willis) and get the defense back together. Then SF took him and you almost got the feeling that it was a complete shock for everyone (the team included).

[timstep]

Won't argue that they should have taken Revis or Harris based on hindsight, but I very clearly remember my disappointment with them taking McCargo over Mangold.

 

I live in Columbus and, though not a Buckeyes fan per se, got to watch every game Mangold played at OSU. I knew the kid would be a solid player, if not a starter for years. I clearly remember listening to the draft on Sirius outside a BBQ joint waiting for my friend (a Browns fan) to pick up our order, and the trade with the Bears was announced for the #26 pick. He gets back in the car, I tell him about the trade and I said "this is where they're gonna take Mangold, they have to get a center." Of course, they didn't. They took McCargo and had Fowler play center. My friend laughed at me for a solid five minutes, and the Jets took Mangold three picks later, which was an extra kick in the nuts. It's not fun to be laughed at by a Browns fan.

[VADC Bills]

This strikes me as myopic. Believe me, there's no one more critical of the Bills than I, but even I can see that after Poz came back from his injury, he was a much better than mediocre player. He had 3 INTs, 9 passes defensed, and finished 23rd in tackles despite missing four games. Don't confuse his play with that of his weak linebacking compatriots and non-tacklers like Byrd, who were the primary reason for the problems containing the run.

So it's everyones fault but Poz.

When Poz over runs a play. Lets blame Mitchell. When Poz can't shed tackles lets blame our DT's.

When he can't stop RB's on impact Boz style its the trainers fault. Now you are blaming a safety for our run defense???

Have you thought Byrd had to make tackles because Poz was out of position?

Excuses, excuses......

Then you should be very satisfied with our existing defense.

I would llike to see a mlb you have to make excuses for.

Don't get me wrong when drafted I was all for Poz & Whitner. While they have made a few plays I feel they are part of a large mediocre group of players that we have settled for.

Poz, Whitner, McCargo, Kelsey,McGahee, Parrish wasted high round draft picks.

[dave mcbride]

So it's everyones fault but Poz.

When Poz over runs a play. Lets blame Mitchell. When Poz can't shed tackles lets blame our DT's.

When he can't stop RB's on impact Boz style its the trainers fault. Now you are blaming a safety for our run defense???

Have you thought Byrd had to make tackles because Poz was out of position?

Excuses, excuses......

Then you should be very satisfied with our existing defense.

I would llike to see a mlb you have to make excuses for.

Don't get me wrong when drafted I was all for Poz & Whitner. While they have made a few plays I feel they are part of a large mediocre group of players that we have settled for.

Poz, Whitner, McCargo, Kelsey,McGahee, Parrish wasted high round draft picks.

I never said that. The simple fact of the matter, though, is that he was the only playmaking LB on the team. 110 (87 solo) tackles (with a lot of stuffs) in 12 games is pretty good. So are 3 forced fumbles, 3 INTs, and 4 passes defensed. When a team has two starting outside LBs who would struggle to make the rosters of half of the teams in the league, then you know you have a problem in those spots.

 

As for Byrd, he's a playmaker in pass coverage. Of that there is no doubt. But he's poor in run support - it's evident when you watch the games. The difference between good and bad run support from your safeties is the difference between, I dunno, the Colts in the postseason in 2006 and the Colts in the regular season in 2006.

[FightClub]

It's hard to fault Marv on the Marshawn pick because the guy we pegged to draft (Patrick Willis) got taken one pick ahead of us. Marshawn was the 2nd highest rated RB in the draft at a position that we could've used an upgrade. Grabbing Poz in the 2nd sort of eased the pain of missing out on Willis (at the time).

 

But, in general, drafting a RB so high is against my philosophy. RBs are a dime a dozen. Find yourself a fred jackson (there are lots of 'em) and give him the best offensive line possible. That's my take.

 

Exactly. My problem back when we made the Lynch pick is they were talking up Fred Jackson. So I thought, "hey, we've already got our replacement for McGahee". You have to believe your own opinions. I think Marv thought highly of Jackson but was afraid to be wrong, so he picks Lynch to hedge his bet. You can't do that. I know it sounds like 20-20 hindsight, but at the time I really was all set to give Jackson a year based on all I was hearing from Marv about him. Then we draft Lynch when we had lots of other needs and unless we were going to get Peterson, it just didn't make sense to me.

[Orton's Arm]

100% of the scouting staffs don't make the final draft selection either, and in Buffalo they were further removed from the process. Most other teams also didn't just sign Melvin Fowler to a big FA deal and didn't have the cap administrator advise them against taking another C in the draft.

Your post brings up a series of mistakes the Bills made:

 

1. Signing Melvin Fowler to the big free agent contract the Bills made.

2. Being so convinced that Fowler was the answer that they no longer saw the position of center as a need.

3. Having a cap administrator strongly influence drafting strategy. (Though I have not seen this one confirmed.)

4. Choosing McCargo over Mangold. (Which to some extent was the result of 1 - 3).

 

But even if you make the argument that the Bills supposedly had a "center" (in the form of Fowler), were they really set at their other interior OL positions? If Fowler was supposedly that great, why not take Mangold anyway and move either him or Fowler to OG? That way the Bills could have both players on the field at once.

 

Unless they somehow concluded that DT was a bigger need than interior OL. Which would make sense, because the Bills' draft priorities seemed to emphasize the defensive secondary first, the rest of the defense second, offensive skill players third, and the offensive line dead last. That changed a little in the 2009 draft--but bear in mind that the Wood pick was obtained by trading away Peters. So the net investment on the offensive line consisted of the 2nd round pick on Levitre.