The_Philster Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Cookie Gilchrist. Now there was a player. Ah yes. Just as with the great Jim Brown, you don’t have to have been alive at the time of his supreme grandeur to know about Carlton Chester “Cookie” Gilchrist — his legend spans the generations. There are many wise men to this day who played and coached for and against Cookie Gilchrist in the NFL who say it’s not Jim Brown who was the greatest running back ever, it was Gilchrist who, because he played his first five seasons in the CFL with Hamilton, Saskatchewan, and Toronto before signing with the AFL’s Buffalo Bills, did not get the recognition of unparalleled records — establishing majesty he deserved....more
Trader Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Cookie Gilchrist. Now there was a player. Ah yes. Just as with the great Jim Brown, you don’t have to have been alive at the time of his supreme grandeur to know about Carlton Chester “Cookie” Gilchrist — his legend spans the generations. There are many wise men to this day who played and coached for and against Cookie Gilchrist in the NFL who say it’s not Jim Brown who was the greatest running back ever, it was Gilchrist who, because he played his first five seasons in the CFL with Hamilton, Saskatchewan, and Toronto before signing with the AFL’s Buffalo Bills, did not get the recognition of unparalleled records — establishing majesty he deserved....more You really cannot compare the two of them because they were very different backs. Gilchrist may have been the greatest power fullback that ever played. Think Larry Czonka only more dominant. Brown played fullback but there has never been a fullback like him. He could run like a tail back when he wanted. In any discussion about the greatest fullback of all time there is no question that Gilchrest belongs in the conversation. Jim Brown was a unique player in the history of the game. It is not likely we will see anyone we can compare him to again. In the era that he played the combination of his speed and power relative to the competition created a mismatch. (corrected post)
ChevyVanMiller Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I'm just a bit young to have seen Cookie play, but have talked to many that did who call him the best Bill ever. Here's hoping he beats the dreaded "C" and that Bills' fans can say, "Lookie, lookie, here comes Cookie" one more time in person.
Homer Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 He was a great powerful back, if you needed a yard or 2 on 3rd or 4th down...no problem...he'd knock them down like bowling pins. That was Bills football.
Tcali Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I'm just a bit young to have seen Cookie play, but have talked to many that did who call him the best Bill ever. Here's hoping he beats the dreaded "C" and that Bills' fans can say, "Lookie, lookie, here comes Cookie" one more time in person. i watched cookie play.oj is the best bill ever followed by Bruce.Cookie is right up there a close 3rd. Remember that Cookie was in his late 20s in the AFL.Most of his greatest yrs were spent in Canada.
BarkLessWagMore Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 It is a crime that Cookie is not on the Bills wall of fame. I wish there was a way he and Ralph could deal with their differences. He was a truly great player.
ConradDobler Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 I watched them both. You really cannot compare the two of them because they were very different backs. Gilchrist was a great power fullback that ever played. Think Larry Czonka only more dominant. Brown played fullback but there has never been a fullback like him. Brown was a fullback but he could run like a tail back when he wanted. There have been other great Fullbacks and you could argue that Gilchrest was the greatest of all time but you could get good arguments form Csonka fans or Marion Motley fans or jim Taylor fans or some others that I have missed. Brown was another story there never has been anyone like Brown. Jim Brown was a unique player in the history of the game. Once more in English, please?
JohnC Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 It is a crime that Cookie is not on the Bills wall of fame. I wish there was a way he and Ralph could deal with their differences. He was a truly great player. The vindictive owner should right a couple of wrongs before he fades into the sunset. Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban should be honored into the Bills' wall of fame. I believe that Saban has a daughter who lives in the local area and it would be fitting for her to be at such a ceremoney. Whether Cookie will or can show up for a cermony is another matter. He still should be honored because he was such a big part of the history of the Bills. The small minded owner needs to show some generosity of spirit and take the initiative on this issue.
Trader Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 The vindictive owner should right a couple of wrongs before he fades into the sunset. Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban should be honored into the Bills' wall of fame. I believe that Saban has a daughter who lives in the local area and it would be fitting for her to be at such a ceremoney. Whether Cookie will or can show up for a cermony is another matter. He still should be honored because he was such a big part of the history of the Bills. The small minded owner needs to show some generosity of spirit and take the initiative on this issue. Agreed Saban and Gilchrist need to be honored.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 why isn't Polian up there? or does he have to wait till he's retired? just cuz he called Ralphie's daughter an obese tranny doesn't mean he should be excluded.
JohnC Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 why isn't Polian up there? or does he have to wait till he's retired? just cuz he called Ralphie's daughter an obese tranny doesn't mean he should be excluded. Ralph Wilson would never permit him to be placed on the wall. It would be too much of a public reminder of how much of an unmitigated disaster the owner is.
bills_fan Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It is a crime that Cookie is not on the Bills wall of fame. I wish there was a way he and Ralph could deal with their differences. He was a truly great player. Care to elaborate on those differences for those of us unaware?
tennesseeboy Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 It is a crime that Cookie is not on the Bills wall of fame. I wish there was a way he and Ralph could deal with their differences. He was a truly great player. Exactly...and Ralph should do this while Cookie is still alive. Hell..I'll go farther and say that he should be given serious consideration for Canton. As to the Brown Gilchrist comparison, I think you might also factor in Gilchrist's blocking ability which is unmatched by any back in NFL or AFL history. Gilchrist MAY have been a better all round back than even Jim Brown.
Beebe's Kid Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 For anybody that hasn't seen the 50th Anniversary DVD, I highly recommend it. Cookie is given a fair shake on the DVD. The story about him running over the Patriot on the first play of the game at Fenway is priceless. Truly a shame that most fans don't even know who he is....
Billsfansince72 Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 The vindictive owner should right a couple of wrongs before he fades into the sunset. Cookie Gilchrist and Lou Saban should be honored into the Bills' wall of fame. I believe that Saban has a daughter who lives in the local area and it would be fitting for her to be at such a ceremoney. Whether Cookie will or can show up for a cermony is another matter. He still should be honored because he was such a big part of the history of the Bills. The small minded owner needs to show some generosity of spirit and take the initiative on this issue. I especially like the part about Ralph fading into the sunset....just sayin'
Trader Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Exactly...and Ralph should do this while Cookie is still alive. Hell..I'll go farther and say that he should be given serious consideration for Canton. As to the Brown Gilchrist comparison, I think you might also factor in Gilchrist's blocking ability which is unmatched by any back in NFL or AFL history. Gilchrist MAY have been a better all round back than even Jim Brown. Your comments are correct I don't think that Brown ever blocked. I do agree that Gilchrist was a better all around player than Brown ( Gilchrist might have been an even better LB than a FB. ) My comments were directed to Brown as a ball carrier. I really wish we could have seeen the Championship Bills of the early 60's against the likes of the Giants, Browns, Colts Packers, Bears and Eagles. of the same era. Now that would have been fun.
JohnC Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Care to elaborate on those differences for those of us unaware? "On November 15, 1964, Gilchrist became frustrated with the play calling and took himself out of the game. After the game, Coach Lou Saban cut Gilchrist. Thanks to quarterback Jack Kemp, Gilchrist was allowed to return after his apology and he helped the Bills win the 1964 AFL Title 20-7, rushing for 122 yards in the process. It was his last game in a Bills uniform as he was traded to the Denver Broncos following the season." Ralph Wilson, Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist were all very similar in that they were very stubborn, tempermental and were not able to forget differences of opinions or accept being challenged. Cookie Gilchrist was very tempermental and not afraid of challenging the established authority. Lou Saban was a volatile person who couldn't control his impulses. He took on jobs and quickly left jobs at an astounding rate. The odds of Saban and Gilchrist smoothly getting along for an extended period of time was next to zero.
bills_fan Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 "On November 15, 1964, Gilchrist became frustrated with the play calling and took himself out of the game. After the game, Coach Lou Saban cut Gilchrist. Thanks to quarterback Jack Kemp, Gilchrist was allowed to return after his apology and he helped the Bills win the 1964 AFL Title 20-7, rushing for 122 yards in the process. It was his last game in a Bills uniform as he was traded to the Denver Broncos following the season." Ralph Wilson, Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist were all very similar in that they were very stubborn, tempermental and were not able to forget differences of opinions or accept being challenged. Cookie Gilchrist was very tempermental and not afraid of challenging the established authority. Lou Saban was a volatile person who couldn't control his impulses. He took on jobs and quickly left jobs at an astounding rate. The odds of Saban and Gilchrist smoothly getting along for an extended period of time was next to zero. Ok, but what were the specific differences with RW? I know that Cookie always felt underpaid and that RW would not cave to Cookie's salary demands. But is there something else?
JohnC Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Ok, but what were the specific differences with RW? I know that Cookie always felt underpaid and that RW would not cave to Cookie's salary demands. But is there something else? As you indicated money was an issue with Ralph, as it usually is. Also, what Ralph doesn't tolerate is a lack of loyalty to himself. When Cookie failed to return to the field in the game and when Saban wanted Cookie out the owner had no trouble in agreeing to trade Gilchrist (his best player) to another team. If the baron owner considers you to be disloyal you are no use to him. To the owner's credit (I don't usually give him much credit) is that when he fired John Butler after he felt he was betrayed by him the owner had nothing to do with him. When John Butler was dying with cancer in San Diego the owner took the initiative to contact him and end his feud with him. That was the noble and right thing to do. Lou Saban was a ridiculously impulsive and peculiar personality. It seems that every year he quit a job and then got another job. Ralph never forgave him for quitting on him. What Ralph has to consider is that the volatile Lou Saban quit on everyone he worked for. That was just his wandering nature. His leaving the organization had nothing to do with the owner and had everything to do with his quirky personality. No matter what his personal feelings are toward Saban no one can deny that he was an important part of the history of the Bills. The owner in his very late stage of life should just let the bad memories go and acknowledge some of the contributions that the very odd Lou Saban made to the franchise. Saban and Gilchrist both deserve to be honored on the stadium wall. I understand that Saban's daughter still lives in western NY. It would be nice and appropriate to have her at a ceremoney honoring her father.
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