Coach Tuesday Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Just the fact that he was allegedly on the list is enough to make me a little nervous about their judgment... I agree and just to expand on the point - my concern is that the Bills fail to realize/acknowledge that so much more goes into being an executive than just having had success as an underling. Brandon is a great marketer, but to promote him to GM and then President? Nix is a great scout, but how do we know that he can run an organization as a GM? There is much more to it than evaluating talent, although it's an important piece (the fact that he served as Asst. GM in San Diego is encouraging, but I'm not sure it's enough). And likewise, guys like Gailey and Cameron (and Frazier and Grimm) are great coordinators or position coaches, but what makes us think they can coach a team? It's completely different. Both Gailey and Cameron had mixed results in their past performance as HCs. How do we know that they have the leadership traits to run an entire team? Nix's draft philosophy is based heavily on past performance and measurable success. Is he applying that same philosophy to coach selection? It would appear not. Having said that, whenever you hire good coordinators as HC you're betting that they'll also become good coaches. You have to take some amount of risk. But simply running a good offense or defense is not enough: you need leadership skills that go beyond X's and O's. From everything I've read and heard, the consensus is that Frazier has those qualities. Only time will tell, because he'll soon get his shot. But also from what I've heard, Gailey, Cameron and Grimm do not possess all of the leadership characteristics that you want in a HC. That's why the Bills' list concerns me - I'm worried about their evaluation criteria. Again, not saying these moves won't work out, but you put yourself at risk when you don't have a solid performance track record to go from.
BuffaloBill Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 This is old news, but had that actually went down, the Bills would have imploded. You don't hire a coach who almost went winless, to lead your team to the promise land. Sporano took that same roster and went 11-5 the following year. If that's not direct proof of coaching (and the Bill Parcells effect), then I don't know what is... No way was it the same roster - Pennington was huge in that turn around.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Just the fact that he was allegedly on the list is enough to make me a little nervous about their judgment... I sense a PR move to make Gailey more palatable. Funny how we heard nothing of this before. Every other candidate mentioned in that article was stuff previously leaked and/or hinted at. Now it's like "Well thank God we didn't get that loser...." in regards to Cameron.
JohnC Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Just the fact that he was allegedly on the list is enough to make me a little nervous about their judgment... You must have been a nervous wreck when Levy was hired as a GM and Jauron was given an extension on his contract. Even ingesting a lot of happy pills wouldn't have settled your agitated nerves.
silvermike Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 No way was it the same roster - Pennington was huge in that turn around. Ding ding ding! They also added Justin Smiley, Randy Starks, Anthony Fasano, and um, Jason Ferguson.
Lori Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 You must have been a nervous wreck when Levy was hired as a GM and Jauron was given an extension on his contract. Even ingesting a lot of happy pills wouldn't have settled your agitated nerves. Nah. Levy was needed to smooth the waters after the tumult which marked the end of Donahoe's reign. (I may have had a different reaction if I'd known his draft strategy.) And "nervous" wasn't quite the emotion I felt when I heard that DJ was coming back for 2009... I have to think that even if they did decide to look at CamCam, he was never anywhere near the top of their list.
Rubes Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Nix and Gailey's hire will be defined by the coordinators and assistant coaches they bring in, and schemes they will run. +1
JohnC Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Nah. Levy was needed to smooth the waters after the tumult which marked the end of Donahoe's reign. (I may have had a different reaction if I'd known his draft strategy.) And "nervous" wasn't quite the emotion I felt when I heard that DJ was coming back for 2009... I have to think that even if they did decide to look at CamCam, he was never anywhere near the top of their list. Lori, There has been a lot of talk about the imperious and arrogant manner in which Donahoe conducted himself on the job. It would have been intriquing to have observed the strong willed Cowher interact with the very smug Donahoe when they were in Pittsburgh together. I'm sure there was a lot of sparks when those two interacted. What surprised me somewhat is that the Bills' owner complained at how he wasn't involved to the extent he wanted to be during the Donahoe reign. Even at his very advanced age Mr. Wilson is no shrinking violet. Why would he tolerate Donahoe's dismissive conduct when he usually is the one who would not be afraid to let others know that he was the owner and the boss and the employee was his subordinate? Ralph Wilson usually doesn't like to pay off contracts. But his reluctance to give the control freak Tom Donahoe the boot sooner rather than after his contract ran out always confused me. Any thoughts ?
Lori Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Lori, There has been a lot of talk about the imperious and arrogant manner in which Donahoe conducted himself on the job. It would have been intriquing to have observed the strong willed Cowher interact with the very smug Donahoe when they were in Pittsburgh together. I'm sure there was a lot of sparks when those two interacted. What surprised me somewhat is that the Bills' owner complained at how he wasn't involved to the extent he wanted to be during the Donahoe reign. Even at his very advanced age Mr. Wilson is no shrinking violet. Why would he tolerate Donahoe's dismissive conduct when he usually is the one who would not be afraid to let others know that he was the owner and the boss and the employee was his subordinate? Ralph Wilson usually doesn't like to pay off contracts. But his reluctance to give the control freak Tom Donahoe the boot sooner rather than after his contract ran out always confused me. Any thoughts ? The entire idea of hiring TD as team president/GM was so that Ralph didn't feel like he HAD to step in; he thought he could trust Donahoe to run the show. I'm not so sure he wanted to get rid of him when he did, to be honest, but the Moulds-v-Mularkey mess and TD's conduct against the fans in the weeks after that more or less forced his hand. As always, JMO.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 The entire idea of hiring TD as team president/GM was so that Ralph didn't feel like he HAD to step in; he thought he could trust Donahoe to run the show. I'm not so sure he wanted to get rid of him when he did, to be honest, but the Moulds-v-Mularkey mess and TD's conduct against the fans in the weeks after that more or less forced his hand. As always, JMO. Agreed. He wanted to give TD a chance to succeed. But, when TD pitted the organization against the fans, he forced the owner to take action, which he did. Ralph being a successful businessman and not born yesterday and all.
BobChalmers Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Gailey and Cameron are the same type of coach in my opinion. Bright offensive coordinators and play callers, but lacking the charisma and leadership qualities to be a HC. Which would explain why, in his one stint as a HC, Gailey was able to take over an aging 6-10 Cowboys team and lead them to 10-6, 8-8, and two straight playoff appearances? Then they went 5-11 three straight years after he was fired? Because he's demonstrated he lacks what it takes to be a HC? Seriously - why do so many "fans" take the time to post stuff with absolutely nothing to back it up? I mean - at least the lazy/ignorant national media types are getting paid to look foolish by saying stuff they can't back up - you're doing it for free!
BobChalmers Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 And likewise, guys like Gailey and Cameron (and Frazier and Grimm) are great coordinators or position coaches, but what makes us think they can coach a team? It's completely different. Both Gailey and Cameron had mixed results in their past performance as HCs. How do we know that they have the leadership traits to run an entire team? Right, so Cameron goes 1-15 in his stint as a HC, and the team goes 11-5 after he's fired. Gailey's 2-year stint is 18-14 (0-2 playoffs) taking over a 6-10 team, and the team sinks to 5-11 for three straight years when he's gone. They are in what way even similar? Both successful OC's?
IndyMark Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Just the fact that he was allegedly on the list is enough to make me a little nervous about their judgment... With all due respect, someone is allegedly on the list and then you place value on the team that that rumor is assigned to? ...knowing it may be a rumor? ...ok, just making sure I have that correct. You understand there exists the probability that Cam was never on anyone's wish list, right? Ok, just making sure.
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 You can't define any head coach after having the job for only one year, simply not fair. Jauron had 4 years and we knew he was useless after 2 1/2 years. The 3 year rule usually applies to most every head coach, if they don't have the team winning after that time, then move on. Even Chan Gailey only had 2 years in Dallas, which was still not enough. Jerry Jones stated he wished he had given Gailey more time as the Cowboys head coach. The reason you have to give a head coach more time is because you need to give them time to implement their schemes. Find out which coaches are doing a decent job or not and replace them if needed. Find and draft the players to fit your schemes, train the coaches under them and develop the QB. Sometimes a head coach goes into a team and needs to restructure the entire playbook, play calls and bring along a new QB. You can expect this to happen in Buffalo, so give Gailey at least 3 years to do his thing.
Kingfish Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 This is old news, but had that actually went down, the Bills would have imploded. You don't hire a coach who almost went winless, to lead your team to the promise land. Sporano took that same roster and went 11-5 the following year. If that's not direct proof of coaching (and the Bill Parcells effect), then I don't know what is... 1) Miami played the same ridiculously easy schedule that we did. 2)They added an insane amount of second tier FA's/trades that offseason, Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Ernest Wilford, Chad Pennington, Jason Ferguson, Anthony Fasano, Randy Starks, Akin Ayodele, Reggie Torbor, and Lousaka Polite.
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Right, so Cameron goes 1-15 in his stint as a HC, and the team goes 11-5 after he's fired. Gailey's 2-year stint is 18-14 (0-2 playoffs) taking over a 6-10 team, and the team sinks to 5-11 for three straight years when he's gone. They are in what way even similar? Both successful OC's? Good thing Bill Polian didn't go by Marv Levy's stint at Kansas City as head coach when he hired him. You know, the one where he tried to run the winged T in the NFL
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 Good thing Bill Polian didn't go by Marv Levy's stint at Kansas City as head coach when he hired him. You know, the one where he tried to run the winged T in the NFL Just ahead of his time. Marv foresaw the coming of the Wildcat.
Red Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 I'll agree that hiring Cam Cameron would have been a marketing disaster! Yea, even worse then Gailey, at least Gailey has won before as a head coach at the NFL level. The Bills fans did implode already this year once they found that Martyball wanted to coach the Bills, but RW wasn't "comfortable" with him, which was a rumor I simply don't believe. As I stated in another post, Marty couldn't get along with A.J.Smith while at SD and A.J. fired him. Nix and A.J. Smith are friends, and Nix worked for him at SD as a scout, so he is familiar with what happened between Marty and A.J. Smith. If anyone was not comfortable with Marty it was Nix. Going back to Cam Cameron, I think the guy is far and away one of the best OC's in the NFL today. He has tutored Drew Brees , Phillip Rivers, Trent Green and Joe Flacco, so he knows how to develop a QB no question. Nix and Gailey's hire will be defined by the coordinators and assistant coaches they bring in, and schemes they will run. My friend, you obviously aren't up to speed on Nix's relationship with the elder Schottenheimer. The two are golfing buddies. They've known each other for years. One of the first people to call Nix when he was named GM was Schottenheimer. I don't know where you got this rumor that he wanted to coach but Ralph could not handle it...
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 1) Miami played the same ridiculously easy schedule that we did. 2)They added an insane amount of second tier FA's/trades that offseason, Justin Smiley, Jake Grove, Ernest Wilford, Chad Pennington, Jason Ferguson, Anthony Fasano, Randy Starks, Akin Ayodele, Reggie Torbor, and Lousaka Polite. I'll agree. I'll also add that the starting QB Trent Green went on IR and the team suffered thru Cleo Lemon as the starter, where is Cleo Lemon now? Not to mention the GM over Cameron was Randy Mueller who was fired by Parcells, as was the DC Dom Capers also fired after his defense went into the tank. The entire team and front office was restructured after that season, so to blame everything on the HC is kinda narrow minded. If the new Dolphins HC Tony Sparano was such a great coach, then why didn't the Dolphins make the playoffs this year?
apuszczalowski Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 just !@#$ing great. now the Bills are ridiculed for the coach they did pick and the ones they didn't. link I thought you knew already that Bills fans would never be happy. I bet everyone here would be mad and complaining about hiring Cowher after they spent all this time trying to get the Bills to make the move
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