VADC Bills Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 The people you know that hunt: do they hang,drown or electricute the animals they hunt? Do they tape the muzzle of the animal they hunt and stick it in a pit so another animal can train on it? What the hell are you talking about would i rather fight a big guy or be castrated? bad analogy! Yeah, i think he paid his debt to society but don't think he should've been allowed back in the NFL, just like he couldn't be a cop, firefighter or in the military! And as far as being a changed man, I DON'T BUY IT!! Something is wrong with you if you could watch an animal suffer and not be affected! ESPECIALLY A HUMAN BEING(i agree with you on that). The people I know that hunt they just simply blown the animals brains out...that's real humane You are stuck on the "how" as opposed to the "what". They are still killing. Spaying and neutering is just castration..sorry I didn't spell it out for you. As far as being a changed man you may be right, but I hope he is smarter from his experience. Many people do learn from their mistakes. I know I have and you probably have too. I always give the people the benefit of the doubt. I look at sports figures as being high paid entertainers and not in the same category as police, firefighters, and the military. Police, Firemen and military have a much more important position in society. This is not to defend what Vick did was okay because it wasn't and I surely do not think he is the sharpest knife in the drawer. But its about forgiveness after he has paid his debt.
aussiew Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 First off, let me just say that I believe in the legal system. I believe that if you do a crime, you have a punishment, and once that has been fulfilled, you deserve to be let back into society. However, there is nothing saying that you become a morlally re-habilitated person. In fact, I'm sure most people don't commit the crime again soley for the reason of not going back to jail. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't do it again if they couldn't get caught. And most people, do end up back in jail. Also, addressing the mentality that other NFL players have done worse things and gotten away with it or there is more dog-fighting occuring in the world than we could like to admit, does that make it right? No, just cause someone bucks the trend doesn't make it okay. If I beat my wife 5 times this week and you only do it 3 times, are you a better person than me? No, we are both @ssholes. With that being said, I don't care if Vick was the potential greatly greatest QB on earth and guaranteed us a Superbowl, I don't want that absolute piece of **** on our team. The man drowned dogs. He shot them. He electrified them. He set them up to kill each other. That is a sick, SICK human being. That is not okay. And we aren't talking once. We are talking a graveyard full of dogs. You don't just rehab that out of your mind. And all the people in the world who also do it, they are evil human beings also. So no, I don't want Vick. I don't want the murdering Ray Lewis. I don't want the father of 11 Travis Henry. Just cause they did their time or beat the system, doesn't mean they are good people or I have to like them. You put Vick on this team. I'm done. I mean it, DONE. I can take anything else. I could even puke my way through having Tom Brady on the team. And believe me, that would be painful. But you put someone like Vick on this team, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the whole franchise. Good Post. Seems as if many people on this board might want to take some time to read the Vick court transcripts. If it doesn't turn your stomach and totally disgust you, I'd be very surprised. Also, find some replays of a show called Dog Town...a humane, no kill shelter in Utah that accepted about 18 of the worst "Vick" dogs and showed the challenges of trying to bring these trained killers back to being pets. Very sad. This is indeed a cultural issue - but my loyalty to the Bills has always been based on Marv's philosophy of hiring players of character. I'd rather go 2-14 with a team of good, honest, law-abiding men than win a SB with a bunch of wife beating, child beating, baby making, dog killing cons. Just my opinion.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Dog fighting is what Mike Vick grew up around. alot of inner city people engage in dog fighting. it's not as taboo to them as most of society makes it out to be. Pedro Martinez was cockfighting in the dominican and no one hates him because it is acceptable in the dominican culture. Well Dog fighting is acceptable in the inner city culture of America so GET OVER IT. He got caught for doing something he grew up doing and was punished for it. He is flat broke, lost years of his career, and has been burned at the stake by the media and American public. Give the guy a break. I forgot everyone on this board is a saint. What about cheating on your wife? Who do you consider more of a scumbag: someone who has a wife and kids and is out cheating on his wife every weekend (which im sure most athletes are doing), or someone who killed some dogs? I'd go with the cheater. what about driving drunk (which could potentially kill someone anytime you do it)? Bruce Smith has been arrested for 2 DUIs yet we still love him to death and support him. If Vick gives us a better chance to win i'm all for it. I don't think Bruce went out with the intention of driving drunk. Vick wasn't just going to dog fights, he was running a criminal organization around dogfighting and running a front company to hide it. If he thought dog fighting was OK, and not a big deal he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of running the front company, and he would have come clean when first caught, to his employers, I believe. I doubt anyone is a saint, but most reasonable people wouldn't got to that extreme in breaking the law. I don't think cheating is a good thing, or excusable, but cheating isn't putting money into criminals pockets, or funding other criminal that were running the competing kennels with money for bets. The cheaters probably didn't pay other criminals to help him commit those crimes. Now a long time cheater is a different story, but Vick did this for a very long time, and probably still would be if not caught. Its not like this was his only indiscretion either, remember the whole ron mexico thing, which pretty much trumps the cheaters crime if he really did spread a VD without notifying his partner.
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I know people get mad when others say this, but... If Vick ends up on the Bills I am done and will burn all my Bills stuff. Im not full of crap either, verify it however you want. My last TBD post will be a link to a youtube video of me burning my Bills stuff while calling to cancel my season tickets.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I know people get mad when others say this, but... If Vick ends up on the Bills I am done and will burn all my Bills stuff. Im not full of crap either, verify it however you want. My last TBD post will be a link to a youtube video of me burning my Bills stuff while calling to cancel my season tickets. I'll be right there with you, except for the posting on youtube part.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I imagine there is a decent chance Vick comes here. Just speculation though. I feel like the QB position is going to be set far before the draft. The question is, if we add a credible starting QB (which I believe Gailey will have to do, bc there is no way he can go into the season with Edwards/Fitz/Brohm as his QBs), who will it be and who is the odd man out? I don't think McNabb will be an option bc his pricetag will be high. And Andy Reid has always liked him, so it isn't as though they are going to just give him away. They'll have to be given a good offer. It will probably be between Orton and Vick ( I don't see a way the Bills can get Jason Campbell without the entire city of Buffalo attempting to burn down Ralph Wilson Stadium). If we add an extra QB, I have to imagine Trent or Fitz are out of a job. Fitz is a coaches dream bc of how bright he is, though his physical attributes are few and far between. Brohm is a project, I doubt he'll be on the block. Trent is probably the guy on the outs in this scenario. Your probably right about the one on the outs. Considering he has had the most chances, if they don't think he can start, he is probably the one that will be sent packing. Brohm has potential, and I think Fitz has no problem being a backup at this point in his career, and has showed enough in bad conditions to stick around I think. I am more of a fan of Trent than Fitz, but think Fitz makes the better backup for this team, as Trent hasn't shown he can be the guy, and hasn't played well in bad weather yet. I doubt they bring in Vick honestly. I dont think Buffalo would be Vicks first choice, and doubt a team run by a public relations guru makes this move. As far as who they do bring in, I am thinking someone like Troy Smith from Ravens if they want someone for furture, or Kerry Collins if they are going to try and win now.
CountDorkula Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Your probably right about the one on the outs. Considering he has had the most chances, if they don't think he can start, he is probably the one that will be sent packing. Brohm has potential, and I think Fitz has no problem being a backup at this point in his career, and has showed enough in bad conditions to stick around I think. I am more of a fan of Trent than Fitz, but think Fitz makes the better backup for this team, as Trent hasn't shown he can be the guy, and hasn't played well in bad weather yet. I doubt they bring in Vick honestly. I dont think Buffalo would be Vicks first choice, and doubt a team run by a public relations guru makes this move. As far as who they do bring in, I am thinking someone like Troy Smith from Ravens if they want someone for furture, or Kerry Collins if they are going to try and win now. I DONT WANT POTENTIAL. I want a guy who can shown he can play. Not one who i go into next season guessing. Im not saying it was to be Vick, but this Brohm potential thing is getting out of hand. If he had "potential" he would not have been on a practice squad.
Zona Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Good Post. Seems as if many people on this board might want to take some time to read the Vick court transcripts. If it doesn't turn your stomach and totally disgust you, I'd be very surprised. Also, find some replays of a show called Dog Town...a humane, no kill shelter in Utah that accepted about 18 of the worst "Vick" dogs and showed the challenges of trying to bring these trained killers back to being pets. Very sad. This is indeed a cultural issue - but my loyalty to the Bills has always been based on Marv's philosophy of hiring players of character. I'd rather go 2-14 with a team of good, honest, law-abiding men than win a SB with a bunch of wife beating, child beating, baby making, dog killing cons. Just my opinion. I totally agree Aussie. Winning isn't everything. Part of Being a Bills fan is that the team reflects the city, It should be Blue-collar, hard working, ass kicking, lunchpail kind of team. The fans should be PROUD of the players on the team, not embarassed by the them.
Kiwi Bills fan Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I know people get mad when others say this, but... If Vick ends up on the Bills I am done and will burn all my Bills stuff. Im not full of crap either, verify it however you want. My last TBD post will be a link to a youtube video of me burning my Bills stuff while calling to cancel my season tickets. +2
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I DONT WANT POTENTIAL. I want a guy who can shown he can play. Not one who i go into next season guessing. Im not saying it was to be Vick, but this Brohm potential thing is getting out of hand. If he had "potential" he would not have been on a practice squad. Having potential but not being ready to play is kind of what practice squad was made for. Yes he probably will never be nothing more than a descent backup, but he may develop into a very good player 2 or 3 years from now. Doesn't mean we don't bring in someone better to play while waiting, but doesn't mean we should give up on him yet either. I agree that we need to do something. From everything that has been said about the subject, it sounds like Nix agrees that QB play needs to be improved significantly in order for this team to take the next step. I haven't seen anyone suggest that he is ready to start yet, or should be starting, the discussion was who do they keep when they bring in someone else to start. I think you take the guy with potential that isn't ready yet, or hasn't had the opportunity yet, over they guy that has already had the chance, but failed for the 3rd qb spot myself. Between the 3 you decide who is the better number 2 between Fitz and Trent and cut the other and keep Brohm as the number 3, because he represents the most upside of the 3. Its is possible that they feel Fitz is best number 2 and Trent has more upside than Brohm of course, but think Brohm ends up winning the number 3 spot unless they draft a mid round QB and pick up a veteran as well.
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Good Post. Seems as if many people on this board might want to take some time to read the Vick court transcripts. If it doesn't turn your stomach and totally disgust you, I'd be very surprised. Also, find some replays of a show called Dog Town...a humane, no kill shelter in Utah that accepted about 18 of the worst "Vick" dogs and showed the challenges of trying to bring these trained killers back to being pets. Very sad. This is indeed a cultural issue - but my loyalty to the Bills has always been based on Marv's philosophy of hiring players of character. I'd rather go 2-14 with a team of good, honest, law-abiding men than win a SB with a bunch of wife beating, child beating, baby making, dog killing cons. Just my opinion. I disagree with anyone who shares this philosophy. I welcome anyone that can bring a superbowl to this city. I dont care what Vick did to those dogs.
CountDorkula Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I disagree with anyone who shares this philosophy. I welcome anyone that can bring a superbowl to this city. I dont care what Vick did to those dogs. If Vick became the QB here and we went 11-5 next year and went to the playoffs, do you think this conversation would be happening, at all....
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 I dont understand all of the people who think the bills WONT do this move because they are run (kind of) by a marketing "guru"....philadelphia proved that a team can sign vick and not lose its loyal fan base/endorsements/season ticket sales... In fact, I think its the other way around...if this orgnaization dosent take a shot at either a name, a proven talent or a hot QB season tickets will plummet....they signed a retread old coach instead of building excitement with a name, you know Brandon is aware of this and will be looking to make some type of move that puts butts in the seats.... Because I, like some of you are posting about if we DO sign Vick you wont support the team, will not be purchasing season tickets next season unless we DO sign vick-or a comparable QB along with some other talent to this team....So for Brandon, he knows he needs to do something to sell tickets, and hiring Chan Gailey was NOT the move to sell tickets
Astrojanitor Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 im not saying its ok to torture and kill animals, im saying of all crimes committed by NFL athletes, this is dam near petty....and he has served his federal mandated punishment...sorry if you guys all feel you are above the constitution, the courts, the law and the government, but they say his debt to society is paid and i more than agree again though, all of this useless babble detracts from the OP about why it is or isnt a good idea to bring in Vick to play QB for the bills, not whether killing animals is ok, its just that most posters on here are too blinded by the killing of dogs to actual post useful responses i know that when we trade for vick or sign him if hes cut, me and my kitten will be meeting him at the airport in our matching Vick buffalo number 7's Petty? holy god you are a !@#$ing retard. He got off on torturing animals. He heard the screams of terror and pain, got a boner, and finished the job. Donte Stallworth hit a guy while drunk. It was tragic, but there was no vicious intent. Donte Stallworth was in an accident brought about by his own stupidity. Vick created a complex organization designed to allow him to torture, maim and kill an animal that has the intelligence of a two year old child. On top of that Vick is not even a particularly good QB. One real winning season and a QB rating of 75. Yeah that's awesome. Stop cumming all over your copy of Madden and use your head, idiot.
Astrojanitor Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Good Post. Seems as if many people on this board might want to take some time to read the Vick court transcripts. If it doesn't turn your stomach and totally disgust you, I'd be very surprised. Also, find some replays of a show called Dog Town...a humane, no kill shelter in Utah that accepted about 18 of the worst "Vick" dogs and showed the challenges of trying to bring these trained killers back to being pets. Very sad. This is indeed a cultural issue - but my loyalty to the Bills has always been based on Marv's philosophy of hiring players of character. I'd rather go 2-14 with a team of good, honest, law-abiding men than win a SB with a bunch of wife beating, child beating, baby making, dog killing cons. Just my opinion. Word. people need to keep some perspective. this is all just a game. you want a team that represents what Buffalo is all about; honest hardworking dudes who give back. you have to question the willingness to check your soul at the door in exchange for winning a couple ball games. Besides, it's not like the eagles blew up with that maniac on the team.
May Day 10 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Anyone supportive of Vick, I do not have a problem with at all. They are entitled to that viewpoint, and it is their freedom. However, I would be done with the Bills and likely the NFL Animal cruelty is a really important issue for me. I have spent time volunteering at Animal Shelters, I donate money to animal cruelty organizations regularly. Yes, I do understand there may be more important causes in human matters, but this is what I choose to support. What Vick has done is ghastly and in my eyes he is a cockroach. I dont care if it happens in his community. They are all scum too. I work down the road from Camden, NJ and crack and murders are part of their culture there it doesnt make it right if someone moves to Oswego and starts shooting people and selling crack. Again, I can respect the viewpoint of those who would choose to look past Vick's past. It is their right, as it is my right to hold this against him forever. I dont think either side is "incorrect", which is why this debate rages on on message boards all over the country. He has been released from prison and he has been allowed to make a living. That doesnt mean I have to pay money and cheer when he does well and makes more millions.
Oneknee Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I've always been a Bills fan...In fact, what brought me to college in Buffalo was the promise of season tickets. I have remained loyal through good and bad. If they brought Vick here, I would never watch them again.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 If Vick became the QB here and we went 11-5 next year and went to the playoffs, do you think this conversation would be happening, at all.... Allot of the people on the anti Vick side wouldn't be on the board to have the discussion, so no doubt would many of us on the board anymore. If they went 11-5 with him, they would do it without my support, and I would never watch one of the games, and if they made it to the Superbowl with Vick at QB, I wouldn't watch that either. I highly doubt that they win more than 5 games if they bring Vick on board now, as allot of teams relearned how to defend a running QB due to the Wildcats popularity, so do not think he will be as effective as he used to be. Plus he never was much of a pure QB, and cant see the long layoff improving that part of his game. Its possible he gained humility and is more willing to put the time in the tape room now, but I doubt it.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I dont understand all of the people who think the bills WONT do this move because they are run (kind of) by a marketing "guru"....philadelphia proved that a team can sign vick and not lose its loyal fan base/endorsements/season ticket sales... In fact, I think its the other way around...if this orgnaization dosent take a shot at either a name, a proven talent or a hot QB season tickets will plummet....they signed a retread old coach instead of building excitement with a name, you know Brandon is aware of this and will be looking to make some type of move that puts butts in the seats.... Because I, like some of you are posting about if we DO sign Vick you wont support the team, will not be purchasing season tickets next season unless we DO sign vick-or a comparable QB along with some other talent to this team....So for Brandon, he knows he needs to do something to sell tickets, and hiring Chan Gailey was NOT the move to sell tickets Philly isn't a small city, and they did take a hit, but they have a large enough market, and a strong enough fan base to absorb it. They also didn't put him the position to be the symbol of their franchise, since they have McNabb in that position. He would be the starting QB most likely and the face of the franchise if he came here. I know personally I turned off any game, including playoffs when Philly was involved, and stopped using any product from any of their corporate sponsors, so I may be the extreme.
bigc14120 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 A loser of a QB, and a THUG. I won't pay a cent to see him play in Buffalo. (40 year season ticket holder)
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