Bmwolf21 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 First off, let me just say that I believe in the legal system. I believe that if you do a crime, you have a punishment, and once that has been fulfilled, you deserve to be let back into society. However, there is nothing saying that you become a morlally re-habilitated person. In fact, I'm sure most people don't commit the crime again soley for the reason of not going back to jail. It doesn't mean that they wouldn't do it again if they couldn't get caught. And most people, do end up back in jail. Also, addressing the mentality that other NFL players have done worse things and gotten away with it or there is more dog-fighting occuring in the world than we could like to admit, does that make it right? No, just cause someone bucks the trend doesn't make it okay. If I beat my wife 5 times this week and you only do it 3 times, are you a better person than me? No, we are both @ssholes. With that being said, I don't care if Vick was the potential greatly greatest QB on earth and guaranteed us a Superbowl, I don't want that absolute piece of **** on our team. The man drowned dogs. He shot them. He electrified them. He set them up to kill each other. That is a sick, SICK human being. That is not okay. And we aren't talking once. We are talking a graveyard full of dogs. You don't just rehab that out of your mind. And all the people in the world who also do it, they are evil human beings also. So no, I don't want Vick. I don't want the murdering Ray Lewis. I don't want the father of 11 Travis Henry. Just cause they did their time or beat the system, doesn't mean they are good people or I have to like them. You put Vick on this team. I'm done. I mean it, DONE. I can take anything else. I could even puke my way through having Tom Brady on the team. And believe me, that would be painful. But you put someone like Vick on this team, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the whole franchise.
Buffalo_soul-dier Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Im sorry...but Im not going to lose sleep over a few dogs being killed....for gods sake are you all vegetarians too? People are too hung up on this ****. If he wins us games and has served his time....i could care less about the rest. For the love of god, the league is about to reinstate Donte Stallworth, but Im sure thats ok because he didnt make the guy suffer while he was running him over with his drunk ass, right? Put things into perspective
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Im sorry...but Im not going to lose sleep over a few dogs being killed....for gods sake are you all vegetarians too? People are too hung up on this ****. If he wins us games and has served his time....i could care less about the rest. For the love of god, the league is about to reinstate Donte Stallworth, but Im sure thats ok because he didnt make the guy suffer while he was running him over with his drunk ass, right? Put things into perspective Its a small market team that hasn't had a winning season in a while. Their president is a public relations specialist who has been making every effort to increase the fan base. Do you think he would sign off on bringing someone like this on board? Even if only loose 10 percent of fan base over a bone head move like this, would kill them. And i think you need to put your response into perspective, it was a whole lot more than killing a few dogs.
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 I hope you're joking about calling Russ Brandon a mastermind. He is a total moron. But other than that, I actually agree with your premise. It would be a good move, football-wise. Brandon WOULD be happy (he can tell Ralph he's selling tickets). But the problem is that, just like coaches and GM's who have options, Vick may not want Buffalo. Brandon (and Wilson) have destroyed the Bills league-wide credibility. NO "good" player who has options to go elsewhere is currently considering Buffalo, I can promise you that. The time to get Vick was LAST year, when he really had limited options. that would be why I used the quotes ("mastermind") around the term for Brandon...its what hes referred to for his "business savy".... and I love how a realistic idea is thrown out there on this message board, and most of the replies are "HE SUCKS" , "YOUR A MORON" "HE KILLED DOGS" My OP was asking for serious reasons why we shouldnt make an attempt at vick...not peoples personal garbage, wah wah, he killed dogs, who gives a f....get over it people, and as far as him not being allowed back in the league b/c fireman and cops wouldnt be? Thats because their CIVIL SERVANTS and get their checks paid for BY THE PEOPLE and therefore have to be upstanding and honorable...NFL is a business, therefore, it acts like one....you dont take out one of your highest earning players ever b/c of minor indescrections, and yea, I do think dog fighting is low on the list of federal offenses, especially for the jail league the NFL has become As to Vick, again....the good nuggets from the otherwise garbage posts....He has a high winning percentage, he is still mobile (philly didnt give him chances to show this all that much other than sending him on basically a dive up the middle)...30 is not old in QB years, his pases for the eagles had some zip....and the most important thing....HES BETTER THAN OUR CURRENT SITUATION OR ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN PROBABLY GET (without wasting a high draft pick this year) thanks to the intelligent posters of this thread who attempted to use reason or statistics and not just "i hate you's"
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 Im sorry...but Im not going to lose sleep over a few dogs being killed....for gods sake are you all vegetarians too? People are too hung up on this ****. If he wins us games and has served his time....i could care less about the rest. For the love of god, the league is about to reinstate Donte Stallworth, but Im sure thats ok because he didnt make the guy suffer while he was running him over with his drunk ass, right? Put things into perspective hahaha, exactly...thats what im saying...its quite alrite to kill humans but dont you dare hurt my poodle! get over it peeps...happened, happens alot, he paid his price.... im worrying about a lack of talent on this team, a lack of a true signal caller since 1996, Vick fits a need that I see....and we will not have to pay him 5 mill a season at least for the first
freeagentqb Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 No, no, no. Please God no. We don't need Vick. he's not that good and I don't want him in Buffalo unless he's playing for the other team. Anybody, and I mean anybody but him. Bring back JP, Rob Johnson, Billy Joe gunrack, Todd Collins, Gary Marangi, etc etc. I don't care - anybody but Vick. Anybody......... Please, please please.
jtl3302 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 hahaha, exactly...thats what im saying...its quite alrite to kill humans but dont you dare hurt my poodle! get over it peeps...happened, happens alot, he paid his price.... im worrying about a lack of talent on this team, a lack of a true signal caller since 1996, Vick fits a need that I see....and we will not have to pay him 5 mill a season at least for the first Who on here is saying it's ok to kill or harm humans? Why don't you just come out and say it's ok to torture and kill animals instead of bringing up something so ridiculous!
freeagentqb Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Please, Chan, Buddy and Mr. Wilson - please don't bring that piece of trash Vick here.
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 Who on here is saying it's ok to kill or harm humans? Why don't you just come out and say it's ok to torture and kill animals instead of bringing up something so ridiculous! im not saying its ok to torture and kill animals, im saying of all crimes committed by NFL athletes, this is dam near petty....and he has served his federal mandated punishment...sorry if you guys all feel you are above the constitution, the courts, the law and the government, but they say his debt to society is paid and i more than agree again though, all of this useless babble detracts from the OP about why it is or isnt a good idea to bring in Vick to play QB for the bills, not whether killing animals is ok, its just that most posters on here are too blinded by the killing of dogs to actual post useful responses i know that when we trade for vick or sign him if hes cut, me and my kitten will be meeting him at the airport in our matching Vick buffalo number 7's
CountDorkula Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I hear the argument that he is 30, and he is slow, and thats why he sucks. Based on that Irrational argument you can say the same thing about Fred Jackson.... So your argument does not hold water there, unless your saying Fred Jackson sucks too, which he surely does not.
jtl3302 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 im not saying its ok to torture and kill animals, im saying of all crimes committed by NFL athletes, this is dam near petty....and he has served his federal mandated punishment...sorry if you guys all feel you are above the constitution, the courts, the law and the government, but they say his debt to society is paid and i more than agree again though, all of this useless babble detracts from the OP about why it is or isnt a good idea to bring in Vick to play QB for the bills, not whether killing animals is ok, its just that most posters on here are too blinded by the killing of dogs to actual post useful responses i know that when we trade for vick or sign him if hes cut, me and my kitten will be meeting him at the airport in our matching Vick buffalo number 7's Answer my question, who on here said it's ok to harm a human being? Also, can you become a police officer, firefighter or join the military with felonies? I personally don't think the NFL should allow a person who comitted a felony back in! Whether they like it or not, they are role models!! You sound like a guy that would go to the airport with your kitten wearing a Vick jersey.
CountDorkula Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Answer my question, who on here said it's ok to harm a human being? Also, can you become a police officer, firefighter or join the military with felonies? I personally don't think the NFL should allow a person who comitted a felony back in! Whether they like it or not, they are role models!! You sound like a guy that would go to the airport with your kitten wearing a Vick jersey. This is why i stay away from VIck threads they all turn out to be a lash out against people moral values or lack their of. When people want to have a conversation of whether Vick can play please do come and show yourself. IF we do sign Vick what is the worst that caould happen. He sucks, I no terrible, WTF have we done the past 10 years at the QB position. HE USED to be the most dynamic player in the game. I for one would not mind seeing if he still has it in him. No not based on my moral values or beliefs, but focusing on football.
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 This is why i stay away from VIck threads they all turn out to be a lash out against people moral values or lack their of. When people want to have a conversation of whether Vick can play please do come and show yourself. IF we do sign Vick what is the worst that caould happen. He sucks, I no terrible, WTF have we done the past 10 years at the QB position. HE USED to be the most dynamic player in the game. I for one would not mind seeing if he still has it in him. No not based on my moral values or beliefs, but focusing on football. I really could not have said that better myself haha...so I just second that sentiment Why not take a "risk" on what some believe was one of the most dynamic players to play the QB position....and it is very unfortunate that we cant have civilized discussions about bringing in Vick because peeople just attack his character...character dosent win football games, talent does ( and an argument can probably be made that character guys lose you football games...just look at the bills and all the "character guys" we have been going after and bringing in the past 10 years and our lack of success....) WE NEED TALENT
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 that would be why I used the quotes ("mastermind") around the term for Brandon...its what hes referred to for his "business savy".... and I love how a realistic idea is thrown out there on this message board, and most of the replies are "HE SUCKS" , "YOUR A MORON" "HE KILLED DOGS" My OP was asking for serious reasons why we shouldnt make an attempt at vick...not peoples personal garbage, wah wah, he killed dogs, who gives a f....get over it people, and as far as him not being allowed back in the league b/c fireman and cops wouldnt be? Thats because their CIVIL SERVANTS and get their checks paid for BY THE PEOPLE and therefore have to be upstanding and honorable...NFL is a business, therefore, it acts like one....you dont take out one of your highest earning players ever b/c of minor indescrections, and yea, I do think dog fighting is low on the list of federal offenses, especially for the jail league the NFL has become As to Vick, again....the good nuggets from the otherwise garbage posts....He has a high winning percentage, he is still mobile (philly didnt give him chances to show this all that much other than sending him on basically a dive up the middle)...30 is not old in QB years, his pases for the eagles had some zip....and the most important thing....HES BETTER THAN OUR CURRENT SITUATION OR ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN PROBABLY GET (without wasting a high draft pick this year) thanks to the intelligent posters of this thread who attempted to use reason or statistics and not just "i hate you's" This is still a business, and the Bills need money to be competitive. If they bring in someone like this, a lot the so called wah wah people are going to take their support and money to other forms of entertainment. Remember the Bills are run by a public relations person primarily, so highly doubt he is going to take a chance on a player with marginal QB skills in exchange for losing support of portion of their fan base. And for the record, I do find him to be one of the worst offenders of the legal system of any player has done while still wearing a uniform. He ran a criminal organization, placed bets illegally, ran a cover company to hide the illegal activity, operated that company across state lines, and even after being caught lied to the face of his employer and the commissioner about the crimes he committed. While not as bad as murder, every thing he did was premeditated and occurred over a very long period of time. I don't think it takes a whole lot of intelligence to understand image does have an potential impact on income.
rstencel Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 I really could not have said that better myself haha...so I just second that sentiment Why not take a "risk" on what some believe was one of the most dynamic players to play the QB position....and it is very unfortunate that we cant have civilized discussions about bringing in Vick because peeople just attack his character...character dosent win football games, talent does ( and an argument can probably be made that character guys lose you football games...just look at the bills and all the "character guys" we have been going after and bringing in the past 10 years and our lack of success....) WE NEED TALENT If you just want to discuss it on football skills, yes he has allot of talent. However he never was great at reading defenses even when he was starting qb and played year after year all the way through highschool and college. He was never the most accurate with the football either. Now he sat out pretty much 3 years and sat on the bench for another. Odds are he will be even worse at reading defense. He has rested his legs so while he probably has lost a step, he probably prolonged his playing years a bit health wise, but its not like he typically makes it through a year healthy anyways. The team would have to change the offense to take advantage of a slash type QB, rather than a pocket passer, so if he were to go down, they would most likely struggle heavily, and considering he most likely lost a step and speed is his main skill, he will get hit even more than he was. I don't see him being able to pick up where he left off, since he relied more on his athletic ability than on QB skills, and even if he does, he probably wont make it through a season healthy. He only has a couple of years left most likely due to hitting 30, which is typically where RB's and people who rely on athletic ability primary usually start drop off in production rather quickly. Even just looking at football standpoint, think if they are going to trade for a QB, I would look at McNabb (if think can win now) or Kobb (if building for future) way before Vick.
freeagentqb Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Consider this - If he had not been caught would he still be doing all that garbage? I believe the answer is yes. Michael Vick is sorry Michael Vick got caught- period. Ok, he paid for his crime as required by the legal system but that doesn't take away the fact that he is/was predisposed to such ugly activity. The man is still the same as before he was caught. Let's not bring him to Buffalo, pay him millions and cheer him on like some sort of hero......
Guest dog14787 Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 The way I see it if we want an inaccurate passer who scrambles and runs well, has good games and bad, inconsistent , we already have it in Ryan Fitzpatrick(and Fitz reads the D better). Used properly and with a good run game/O-line, Ryan Fitzpatrick can win ball games. Counting the Jets game where TE only played 5 plays, Fitz has now won 9 of his last 12 ball games. I like all three of our QB's myself personally, if we concentrate on building our O line, the Bills behind a good coaching staff and GM can and will succeed in my opinion.
PaattMaann Posted January 21, 2010 Author Posted January 21, 2010 If you just want to discuss it on football skills, yes he has allot of talent. However he never was great at reading defenses even when he was starting qb and played year after year all the way through highschool and college. He was never the most accurate with the football either. Now he sat out pretty much 3 years and sat on the bench for another. Odds are he will be even worse at reading defense. He has rested his legs so while he probably has lost a step, he probably prolonged his playing years a bit health wise, but its not like he typically makes it through a year healthy anyways. The team would have to change the offense to take advantage of a slash type QB, rather than a pocket passer, so if he were to go down, they would most likely struggle heavily, and considering he most likely lost a step and speed is his main skill, he will get hit even more than he was. I don't see him being able to pick up where he left off, since he relied more on his athletic ability than on QB skills, and even if he does, he probably wont make it through a season healthy. He only has a couple of years left most likely due to hitting 30, which is typically where RB's and people who rely on athletic ability primary usually start drop off in production rather quickly. Even just looking at football standpoint, think if they are going to trade for a QB, I would look at McNabb (if think can win now) or Kobb (if building for future) way before Vick. finally someone actually respons with the negatives rather than just "he killed dogs" haha....great post on his negatives... and you are absolutely correct about having to adapt an offense to fit him....howver, to me, that is where the strength of this move lies...Gailey is remarkable at tailoring his offenses to fit his personnel, and he had great success with QBs with similar skills as Vick in Thigpen and Slash Stewert.... My reasons for wanting to add Vick is to give him a shot to win the QB job, keep fitzy or edwards or both, but bring in someone to compete and probably win that starting job....his problems and negatives are also both of their problems and negatives (not reading defenses and making poor throws) so why not bring in someone with playmaking ability? As far as getting McNabb, not happening, as much as liESPN wants to talka bout it, Reid aint givin up McNabb...and they arent going to get rid of Kolb either, he is their future....that makes Vick odd man out and thus, on the trading block...
goynahan Posted January 21, 2010 Posted January 21, 2010 Dog fighting is what Mike Vick grew up around. alot of inner city people engage in dog fighting. it's not as taboo to them as most of society makes it out to be. Pedro Martinez was cockfighting in the dominican and no one hates him because it is acceptable in the dominican culture. Well Dog fighting is acceptable in the inner city culture of America so GET OVER IT. He got caught for doing something he grew up doing and was punished for it. He is flat broke, lost years of his career, and has been burned at the stake by the media and American public. Give the guy a break. I forgot everyone on this board is a saint. What about cheating on your wife? Who do you consider more of a scumbag: someone who has a wife and kids and is out cheating on his wife every weekend (which im sure most athletes are doing), or someone who killed some dogs? I'd go with the cheater. what about driving drunk (which could potentially kill someone anytime you do it)? Bruce Smith has been arrested for 2 DUIs yet we still love him to death and support him. If Vick gives us a better chance to win i'm all for it.
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