dave mcbride Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Ross Tucker on WGR last night had it right: you can't win in the NFL without a QB. The Bills don't have one.
RyanC882 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Draft McClain!!!!!! There will be quality QB's available and quality OT's available in Rounds 2&3, but this guy is a stud and the best LB to come out in a while.
RyanC882 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Very true. I would see the draft projecting out like something like this. 9th pick - McClain [iLB] 20th pick - (trade with Houston) Cody [NT] 34th pick - (trade with Detroit) Campbell [OT] 41st pick - Lefevour [QB] This is the best mock draft for the Bills yet!
BillsPhan Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 People are this board are fact averse. They like buzz words. the 4-3 is a perfectly fine defensive scheme, just like the 4-3. You cant just flip a switch like you can on a video game and expect the players youve acquired to play in the 4-3 to play fine in a 34. we dont have the bodies for 34. If you idiots are so gung ho on the 3-4 get ready for a bad defenseive year. btw defense wasnt the problem last year. it was lack of offense. Defense wasn't the problem? I don't care how bad your offense is, finishing #31 or 32 against the run is a huge problem, my friend. Fewells' version of the 4-3 - this hybrid thing with smaller players running to specific gaps all day long might work if you have tremendous athletes in every freakin' position, but alas, the salary cap won't allow that. How many games after the Bills allowed yet another 150 - 200 yard rushing against, did we have to listen to both Fewell and his players whine about "not getting into their proper gaps." Poz - "We were lined up perfectly, we just missed our gaps." Excuse me, I may be one of those 3-4 idiot fans, but WTF is Poz talking about? I would laugh out loud when Fewell would say; "I had them in the correct calls, they just didn't play their gaps." Well, did your players practice running to their correct gaps, Perry? Or maybe they were just not talented enough to be able to understand your gaps in the heat of battle, perhaps? Whatever the case was, Fewells' 4-3- defense sucked against the run each year he was the Bills' DC. Even an "idiot" knows to win in the NFL, you must run and stop the run. I wish the Giants well if Perry keeps his same system down there!
Steely Dan Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 IMO, the only smart answer is LT. Don't worry about a QB right now. Get a good line and see what the current guys can do with it. Also, if there is a lockout in 2011 as some have speculated, I don't know if there will be a draft. If not the 2012 draft should be stocked with QB's. Even if there is a 2011 draft I still think that building a line to protect a QB is better than putting a rookie out there unprotected. Can anyone explain to me exactly what the expectations are for 3-4 D. I know that CB's and Safties stay the same, but what kind of LB's, DT's, and DE's? I thought the idea was two standards OLB's work as the two ILB's. You have DE/OLB hybrids for the OLBs You have a huge anchor type DT And then a DE/DT hybrid for DE's I'm honestly asking, and don't know. In a 3-4 the nose tackle has to be huge because he's taking on the center and one guard on each play. The 3-4 DE's should be about 300 pounds because they have two gap responsibilities, meaning they are taking the OT head on and watching to make sure nothing comes through the gaps on either side of them. A lot of 3-4 DE's don't get the sack numbers that 4-3 DE's do. This is a prime example of why BS was much better than RW. In the 3-4 the DL's are responsible for every gap and are expected to hold their blocks so the LB's can make plays. This system is what made LT a superstar. If the Bills switch to a 3-4 they should shift Maybin to OLB. The four linebackers need to be athletic because they will be responsible for making the plays. The outside rushers need size and speed. If they are unblocked it's death for the QB. Even more so than if a DE gets unblocked, IMO, because the OLB has a little more room to hit full stride. It also makes the offense keep a TE or RB in to block on pass plays limiting a QB's choices of where to go. Unless a team has an above average set of DL's it's hard to control the line. Dick LeBeu's answer for that is the zone blitz. Since the LB's in the 3-4 are big and athletic only one will rush the passer on a lot of pass plays. With four LB's the QB can have a problem determining which LB will rush and which LB's will drop back into the zone coverage. If the Bills switch to the 3-4 they will need two much bigger DL's. Stroud is really the only guy on D that I can see fitting the 3-4 DL alignment well. The bigger DT's the Bills have are pretty much no names. Spencer Johnson could probably handle one DE spot but a couple of NT's would be necessary for starting and depth, IMO. They would also have to get at least two more LB's. Mitchell, Maybin and Poz are worthy starters. They'll need another legitimate starter and a backup. That's assuming Maybin takes to the new position well. Since it appears to be absurd to assume that Buffalo can come away from FA and the draft with four adequate players for the 3-4 system the new DC should stay 4-3. JMO The 3-4 is shiny but not the only way to skin an offense.
Steely Dan Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I'm guessing people will only begin to learn that when it becomes the truth, and likely not before. Cleveland had one of the top 10 o-lines in the league last season, and they were an awful team. Tennessee allowed the fewest sacks in the NFL and boasted the league's only 2,000-yard rusher, but literally couldn't win a game with Kerry Collins at QB. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go Top it all off with this: 5 of the 9 most-sacked QBs in the NFL (Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Favre, Romo, McNabb) lead passing offenses that ranked in the top 10 in the whole league. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?sea...mp;d-447263-n=1 http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...;seasonType=REG It's all about the QB...the stats don't lie. I see your point, but the Tennessee example is horrible. If I had Chris Johnson in my backfield I wouldn't throw the ball much at all. JMO
VADC Bills Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Defense wasn't the problem? I don't care how bad your offense is, finishing #31 or 32 against the run is a huge problem, my friend. Fewells' version of the 4-3 - this hybrid thing with smaller players running to specific gaps all day long might work if you have tremendous athletes in every freakin' position, but alas, the salary cap won't allow that. How many games after the Bills allowed yet another 150 - 200 yard rushing against, did we have to listen to both Fewell and his players whine about "not getting into their proper gaps." Poz - "We were lined up perfectly, we just missed our gaps." Excuse me, I may be one of those 3-4 idiot fans, but WTF is Poz talking about? I would laugh out loud when Fewell would say; "I had them in the correct calls, they just didn't play their gaps." Well, did your players practice running to their correct gaps, Perry? Or maybe they were just not talented enough to be able to understand your gaps in the heat of battle, perhaps? Whatever the case was, Fewells' 4-3- defense sucked against the run each year he was the Bills' DC. Even an "idiot" knows to win in the NFL, you must run and stop the run. I wish the Giants well if Perry keeps his same system down there! Good points. Missing your gaps is basically your mlb responsibility. He is suppose to ensure that everyone is in the proper position based on the formation read. Once the play starts instincts should take over. In a 4-3 the mlb has more gap responsibility. Don't get me wrong the front seven plays a part in gap responsibility but this is a direct indictment of our mlb's. No matter how big or strong you are if you properly read the opposing offense your going to give up a lot of yards. Fewell and Poz are giving excuses for poor play that hopefully will not be tolerated with a new coach. Poz would be better coming off of the bench. I am hoping for McClain to be our pick for his ability to read plays as well as his hitting power and ability to get off of the block.
R. Rich Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 You need a NT as opposed to DT's. He should have a stout build ideally, Sam Adams/Ted Washington are great examples. You're DE's should be prototypical Bruce Smith types if not larger. The Aaron Schobels/Aaron Maybins of the world were built for OLBs and not DE's in the 34 scheme. Your DE's in the 34 can't be light. Your DEs should be prototypical Aaron Smith types, actually. Big and strong enough to take on double teams and still able to create havoc in the opponents' backfield. Sam Adams actually was more of a 3 technique (line up over the guard-tackle gap and shoot the gap) as he had good quickness of the snap (he used to take snaps @ DT AND DE for Seattle when they drafted 'em) as well as strength and toughness. Schobel and Maybin are suckers for counter plays and both have shown issues in the past in dropping back, traits that a 3-4 OLB absolutely MUST have in order to be successful.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Your DEs should be prototypical Aaron Smith types, actually. Big and strong enough to take on double teams and still able to create havoc in the opponents' backfield. Sam Adams actually was more of a 3 technique (line up over the guard-tackle gap and shoot the gap) as he had good quickness of the snap (he used to take snaps @ DT AND DE for Seattle when they drafted 'em) as well as strength and toughness. Schobel and Maybin are suckers for counter plays and both have shown issues in the past in dropping back, traits that a 3-4 OLB absolutely MUST have in order to be successful. I was just using familiar faces to help illustrate the point, I know none of my examples are perfect.
thebandit27 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I see your point, but the Tennessee example is horrible. If I had Chris Johnson in my backfield I wouldn't throw the ball much at all. JMO The point of that example was to say that they had one of the best o-lines in the NFL, but started out 0-6 because they had sub-standard QB play. Once Vince Young took over the job, they went 9-1. That should illustrate, I think, that the importance of QB play is far greater than o-line play.
thebandit27 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 IMO, the only smart answer is LT. Don't worry about a QB right now. Get a good line and see what the current guys can do with it. Also, if there is a lockout in 2011 as some have speculated, I don't know if there will be a draft. If not the 2012 draft should be stocked with QB's. Even if there is a 2011 draft I still think that building a line to protect a QB is better than putting a rookie out there unprotected. In a 3-4 the nose tackle has to be huge because he's taking on the center and one guard on each play. The 3-4 DE's should be about 300 pounds because they have two gap responsibilities, meaning they are taking the OT head on and watching to make sure nothing comes through the gaps on either side of them. A lot of 3-4 DE's don't get the sack numbers that 4-3 DE's do. This is a prime example of why BS was much better than RW. In the 3-4 the DL's are responsible for every gap and are expected to hold their blocks so the LB's can make plays. This system is what made LT a superstar. If the Bills switch to a 3-4 they should shift Maybin to OLB. The four linebackers need to be athletic because they will be responsible for making the plays. The outside rushers need size and speed. If they are unblocked it's death for the QB. Even more so than if a DE gets unblocked, IMO, because the OLB has a little more room to hit full stride. It also makes the offense keep a TE or RB in to block on pass plays limiting a QB's choices of where to go. Unless a team has an above average set of DL's it's hard to control the line. Dick LeBeu's answer for that is the zone blitz. Since the LB's in the 3-4 are big and athletic only one will rush the passer on a lot of pass plays. With four LB's the QB can have a problem determining which LB will rush and which LB's will drop back into the zone coverage. If the Bills switch to the 3-4 they will need two much bigger DL's. Stroud is really the only guy on D that I can see fitting the 3-4 DL alignment well. The bigger DT's the Bills have are pretty much no names. Spencer Johnson could probably handle one DE spot but a couple of NT's would be necessary for starting and depth, IMO. They would also have to get at least two more LB's. Mitchell, Maybin and Poz are worthy starters. They'll need another legitimate starter and a backup. That's assuming Maybin takes to the new position well. Since it appears to be absurd to assume that Buffalo can come away from FA and the draft with four adequate players for the 3-4 system the new DC should stay 4-3. JMO The 3-4 is shiny but not the only way to skin an offense. Again, it's more about technique and leverage than size. Dallas' NT, Jay Ratfliff, goes a mere 293 and is a 2-time pro bowler on a top-10 rushing (and overall) defense.
abqmarko Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 No way Clausen is on the board at #9. No way. You have St. Louis, Cleveland, Washington, and Oakland (You never know what Al Davis is thinking) all in front of us that could take a QB. They all have that need. Denver also has two 1st Round picks, one that they could use in a trade up scenario if they want to draft a QB. Seattle also has two 1st round picks and could be looking towards life after Hasselbeck. Don't be surprised if Carroll goes after a QB. San Fran is also another team with two 1st Rounders this year so don't rule them out of a trade up to get a QB if they don't truly believe in Smith.. Good post-very informative. While I'd like Clausen at 9 to, I also doubt he will be there, so who would you target first through 3rd rounds?
VADC Bills Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 The point of that example was to say that they had one of the best o-lines in the NFL, but started out 0-6 because they had sub-standard QB play. Once Vince Young took over the job, they went 9-1. That should illustrate, I think, that the importance of QB play is far greater than o-line play. The same point can be made by how much better Flutie played behind the same line as Johnson.
tonyjustbcuz Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 While trying to choke back the vomit of today's announcement, I happened to catch some more draft speculation around who will be there for the Bills at number 9. Now, let me just re-state that I don't believe much about people's draft status until after the combine, but still.... As it stands right now, the ESPN boys think we will have our choice of McClain, Clausen, or an OT. If that's the case, I think it's a can't lose, but I would like to see Clausen. I think we need that sign of hope for the future. I think OT is a big need, but I think we can also do well in rounds 2-4 with that as we did with Wood and Levitre (Yes, I know one was taken at the end of the first round) But, if we switch to 3-4, I think we are actually in good shape and might even take better advantage of our talent. Think Stroud as NT, or Kyle with how he played this year (ProBowl Nod). At DE, this is the only way I like Kelsay as he would be the DT, DE hybrid. He's good against the run. For the other DE, I like Schobel there if he doesn't retire. Now, for the ROLB, who doubles as the opposing DE, I think Maybin takes that spot and developes into the player we want. We then have Poz and Mitchell on the inside and look to the draft for the OLB. Corners, we have enough of them and a FS. SS is a drafting position to me. On the O, we get Clausen first, focus on O-Line with 2-3. Get another 3rd in a trade for Lynch and take either the best DE, LB, or SS. Whoever you don't get, take with the rest of the picks along with another RB. I don't know how much of that made sense, but I think that could very well work, even without Free Agency cause I don't think anyone will come here. I truly think this would make our front 7 stronger and utilize our talent themes better. We just have to stay healthy. If we were to do this, I'd be fairly optimistic about the team after this season with another solid draft. I want my Clausen Jersey. No Tebow I love the NFL Draft! I research it...I have my own little war room set-up for that day each year...and I have a list for everything...best player left on the board...positional order ranked..etc....I have been doing this for several years now...The problem I have with the draft is that we still have John Guy, Tom Modrak, etc.......The Bills never pick anyone that I am hoping for! The last time we were on the same wavelength was win they drafted Antwoin Smith! Boy that didn't pan out so great and that was one of my few off base picks! The Bills have been off base more times than they have been on and that's an understatement..Until they get legitimate people involved in the draft process it seems fruitless to even speculate who may available...and who they should pick! Last year they could have had Bryan Orakapo DE !! They passed for Maybin...I was very upset as I was sure they would pick Orakapo! Everything I had info wise supported that choice! Too many examples to give to even bother...but as it gets closer...and the draft "experts" mock drafts suggest the Bills will take one of four or five players..you can bet they will by-pass them for some undiscovered small college divison II player or something like that! They'll probably go CB too! Even though they need another OT, QB, DT, LB, WR? etc.......Anyways, I will put Clausen on my Santa Clausen list as I checked it twice and he's been nice.....but I think the Bills will pass as a 1ST Round QB picked at #9 would require a bigger financial committment than Ralph Wilson is willing to make when they can keep the losers they have now...and maybe trade down to the 20th pick!!! Yeah, I think we're in trouble now! and I think I am becoming a real cynic regarding the Bills Organization!
Hazed and Amuzed Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I love the NFL Draft! I research it...I have my own little war room set-up for that day each year...and I have a list for everything...best player left on the board...positional order ranked..etc....I have been doing this for several years now...The problem I have with the draft is that we still have John Guy, Tom Modrak, etc.......The Bills never pick anyone that I am hoping for! The last time we were on the same wavelength was win they drafted Antwoin Smith! Boy that didn't pan out so great and that was one of my few off base picks! The Bills have been off base more times than they have been on and that's an understatement..Until they get legitimate people involved in the draft process it seems fruitless to even speculate who may available...and who they should pick! Last year they could have had Bryan Orakapo DE !! They passed for Maybin...I was very upset as I was sure they would pick Orakapo! Everything I had info wise supported that choice! Too many examples to give to even bother...but as it gets closer...and the draft "experts" mock drafts suggest the Bills will take one of four or five players..you can bet they will by-pass them for some undiscovered small college divison II player or something like that! They'll probably go CB too! Even though they need another OT, QB, DT, LB, WR? etc.......Anyways, I will put Clausen on my Santa Clausen list as I checked it twice and he's been nice.....but I think the Bills will pass as a 1ST Round QB picked at #9 would require a bigger financial committment than Ralph Wilson is willing to make when they can keep the losers they have now...and maybe trade down to the 20th pick!!! Yeah, I think we're in trouble now! and I think I am becoming a real cynic regarding the Bills Organization! You are a very excited cynic, I like it.
Webster Guy Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I love the NFL Draft! I research it...I have my own little war room set-up for that day each year...and I have a list for everything...best player left on the board...positional order ranked..etc....I have been doing this for several years now...The problem I have with the draft is that we still have John Guy, Tom Modrak, etc.......The Bills never pick anyone that I am hoping for! The last time we were on the same wavelength was win they drafted Antwoin Smith! Boy that didn't pan out so great and that was one of my few off base picks! The Bills have been off base more times than they have been on and that's an understatement..Until they get legitimate people involved in the draft process it seems fruitless to even speculate who may available...and who they should pick! Last year they could have had Bryan Orakapo DE !! They passed for Maybin...I was very upset as I was sure they would pick Orakapo! Everything I had info wise supported that choice! Too many examples to give to even bother...but as it gets closer...and the draft "experts" mock drafts suggest the Bills will take one of four or five players..you can bet they will by-pass them for some undiscovered small college divison II player or something like that! They'll probably go CB too! Even though they need another OT, QB, DT, LB, WR? etc.......Anyways, I will put Clausen on my Santa Clausen list as I checked it twice and he's been nice.....but I think the Bills will pass as a 1ST Round QB picked at #9 would require a bigger financial committment than Ralph Wilson is willing to make when they can keep the losers they have now...and maybe trade down to the 20th pick!!! Yeah, I think we're in trouble now! and I think I am becoming a real cynic regarding the Bills Organization! wow dude, you used the exclamation point so much i thought it was my daughter's diary there for a minute....... wait a second, Jenna is that you?
buffaloaggie Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Ross Tucker on WGR last night had it right: you can't win in the NFL without a QB. The Bills don't have one. You can't win with a hurt QB or a QB running for his life all the time. Draft an OT.
BobbyC81 Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Keep an eye on Colt McCoy at the end of Round 1 or at our original pick in Round 2. Gailey said during the press conference that he likes personnel and players who have been successful everywhere. McCoy broke the NCAA mark for most wins by a QB and has had success at almost every level of football he's played. Gailey's had a reputation of liking scrambling QBs who can create havoc with their wheels. McCoy has been known to do this. We need a QB. McCoy is a QB (...kinda...) I'm not saying I would be 100% on board with that move, but I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills attempt to trade back into the late 1st after drafting a LB or OT at #9 and get the QB they covet. You mean like when we drafted JP ??
Conch Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Very true. I would see the draft projecting out like something like this. 9th pick - McClain [iLB] 20th pick - (trade with Houston) Cody [NT] 34th pick - (trade with Detroit) Campbell [OT] 41st pick - Lefevour [QB] We should draft only the players that will sign for less? This has haunted us for years. Get the right players, they all sign in the end.
Virgil Posted January 20, 2010 Author Posted January 20, 2010 First off, I never said I was all for the 3-4, I am thinking about it cause our new HC mentioned the possibility. As for our D now, I really don't think anyone can say how good they are considering how much they are on the field. I'm not sure the exact stat, but I know we were bottom 3 in total offensive plays run. Overall, contrary to what our stats and records show, I see our priorities as a team as: 1) Health - 'nuff said 2) QB 3) O-Line (this goes second to QB only because they weren't healthy) 4) D front 7 (LB Focus)
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