Fezmid Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 What fans are tired of are gangsta thugs. Sportsmanship? there is none. It's how much of a thug can you be. 129054[/snapback] But it would've been sportsmanlike to throw the ball at the end of the Bills game yesterday? Sorry, OT. CW
UConn James Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Um bud, you do realise the writer is black right? 129109[/snapback] Some people are probably taking it in an Uncle Tom way. He does state that black players should do what the white audience wants them to do.... I'd be the last to say his observations are wrong, these are my thoughts on the NBA for years. Just how he's presenting it is a little stupid. It's not only white people who want to see the NBA clean up its act. It's people in general.
zow2 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 He's right in that there's a sub-culture of hip hop stuff that the average white middle age fan hates. It comes complete with thuggery, attitude and entitlement. I don't really care for all the race stuff since I personally don't begrudge players because they are black, hispanic or white. If someone is a jerk, they are a jerk...period! But it is good to see this author and people like Bill Cosby start to come out and make their own race accountable for their own actions and problems. It's really something that the white media has no business talking about.... but that African American media has started to address (including Michael Wilbon). That's good to see.
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I'm just glad that he didn't give us the line of crap that their actions are excusable because they are black and come from a different background where people get beat up like that everyday. Some of the most powerful pictures from that fiasco were the shots of young kids who had to witness the thuggery. Bet they won't be asking dad to take them to a game again soon.
John in VA Beach Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I don't really disagree with some of the guys premise, But I will say that his stance to some extent implies that Stern would have went easier on a bunch of white players beating the crap out of fans. I disagree completely.
VabeachBledsoefan Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Good article from Jason Whitlock:http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/s...ck/10242339.htm I was going to put this in the Artest thread, but I thought it would be buried. A different perspective from a Black Reporter. Enjoy......... 129027[/snapback] I used to love the NBA....I loved Robert Parrish, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, not because of their race..but how they played the game. The NBA always has been a black dominated sport...compare those players to Allen Iverson, Artest, Shaq....I have lost all interest in the NBA. Is there in fact an theme theme here about socioeconomics and where you came from?, maybe. Its a black sport attend by whites, owned by whites. There are so many cultural differences. I prefer to be a season ticket holder for our local college, ODU.
Alaska Darin Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I used to love the NBA....I loved Robert Parrish, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, not because of their race..but how they played the game. The NBA always has been a black dominated sport...compare those players to Allen Iverson, Artest, Shaq....I have lost all interest in the NBA. Is there in fact an theme theme here about socioeconomics and where you came from?, maybe. Its a black sport attend by whites, owned by whites. There are so many cultural differences. I prefer to be a season ticket holder for our local college, ODU. 129163[/snapback] Parrish never would have gone into the crowd to kick someone's ass - unless they had really good ganja. He saved the beatings for his spouse.
Kgun5 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 I watched the Sports Reporters on ESPN Sunday, he was one of the panelists, and he was saying alot what what this article says. The other guys on the panel were shocked at some of the things he was saying, I found it interesting. If I remember correctly he was a lineman for a large university in the Mid west. Anybody know? 129134[/snapback] It's too bad that anytime there's even a discussion that involves statistical and/or traditional differences between the races, it is immediately labeled taboo. If I were ever to have kids, (which I wont,) I'd like to be able to teach them that racism has to do with judging someone by their race instead of their actions, and does not have to do with pretending that we all have the same genetics, culture, strengths, weaknesses, dreams, and fears. What this gentleman was saying is about the cultural differences that many of the black players have compared to the white fan base, and the what the NBA may do if it stops selling. I wish more people could express their ideas this openly.
Guest BillsRebound Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Just a weak attempt to be cute and make another excuse for poor behavior: The customer is always right. The customer is white. Better do what whitey wants. Another in the long line of excuses for anti-social behavior.
jad1 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 So I guess the reason that the NHL is in decline is because of black players. There are many reasons for the decline of sports like hockey, basketball, or baseball, that have absolutely nothing to do with race. Among them are drafting high schoolers, expanding outside the talent pool, lack of revenue sharing, poor enforcement of the rules (hooking in hockey, travelling in basketball, strike zone in baseball). Of all the problems that sports faces, the least urgent is race. Sports seems to have always been ahead of the curve on race. It would be a shame to miss the opportunity to have real conversations about the problems in sports because we're hung up on this non-issue.
Kgun5 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Just a weak attempt to be cute and make another excuse for poor behavior: The customer is always right. The customer is white. Better do what whitey wants. Another in the long line of excuses for anti-social behavior. 129197[/snapback] Perhaps what you say is somewhat true...That doesn't change the fact that the NBA will do what it can to be the most profitable league it can be. The article issued a warning, and a consequence. The players, black or white, can do as they please. If the owners then phase out the ones that promote an image that's not selling, whether that's right or wrong, it will hurt the athletes in the NBA that currently have that image. If I said tomorrow everyone was going to start shooting hispanic people in Idaho, and that they better leave the ASAP, I wouldn't be supporting the action. I'd just be warning those that could find themselves in peril. In other words, don't blame the messenger.
GG Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 So I guess the reason that the NHL is in decline is because of black players. There are many reasons for the decline of sports like hockey, basketball, or baseball, that have absolutely nothing to do with race. Among them are drafting high schoolers, expanding outside the talent pool, lack of revenue sharing, poor enforcement of the rules (hooking in hockey, travelling in basketball, strike zone in baseball). Of all the problems that sports faces, the least urgent is race. Sports seems to have always been ahead of the curve on race. It would be a shame to miss the opportunity to have real conversations about the problems in sports because we're hung up on this non-issue. 129200[/snapback] The decline in hockey is not related to the change in the game, but a change in economics. You can make an argument that hockey as a game is at an apex, with great talent in every team. The European game was always more about teamwork and systems, and the NHL has done a very good job of incorporating the European game within the physicality of North American play. To see a NFL parallel, look at what Patriots are doing with abunch of "nobodies" on the roster. The decline of the NBA is directly related to the ignorance of the 5 man teamwork in favor of individuality of the stars.
erynthered Posted November 22, 2004 Author Posted November 22, 2004 What this gentleman was saying is about the cultural differences that many of the black players have, compared to the white fan base, and the what the NBA may do if it stops selling. I wish more people could express their ideas this openly. 129176[/snapback] Bingo! I'll agree, that by him coming out and saying what he said is quite compelling.There is definitely some truths in his writings.
jad1 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 The decline in hockey is not related to the change in the game, but a change in economics. You can make an argument that hockey as a game is at an apex, with great talent in every team. The European game was always more about teamwork and systems, and the NHL has done a very good job of incorporating the European game within the physicality of North American play. To see a NFL parallel, look at what Patriots are doing with abunch of "nobodies" on the roster. The decline of the NBA is directly related to the ignorance of the 5 man teamwork in favor of individuality of the stars. 129229[/snapback] Actually, I can make an argument that the decline of hockey is tied to the increasing use of the trap during the '90s. I can also say that the referees refusal to consistantly enforce obstruction calls has harmed the game. Also the increased size of goalie equipment and the introduction of composite sticks (equivalent to aluminum bats) has detracted from on-ice play. The goal of 'finishing checks' has shut down room on the ice and emphasized bigger, and less talented defensement over more offensive-minded players who were more concerned with joining the rush. There's nothing about the game now that resembles the game from the 70s and 80s. The emphasis then was to open up the ice. The emphasis now is to close it down.
BuffaloWings Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 The NBA has fallen down to the level of nascar. You have your die hard fans, but most people just don't care. Blame it on the Michael Jordan era, where the league threw traveling out of the rule books and embraced showboating. Too bad these kids didn't learn anything else from MJ. I doubt he would have jumped into the stands and punched a fan. 129135[/snapback] Back then, the showboating was encouraged because that's what the NBA (and the other pro leagues) wanted. It got people watching and attending the games, like it or not. Unfortunately, it just got out of control and the league officials just couldn't - and still can't - stop it. I think the NFL is trying with the ticky-tack celebration penalties, but it's now perceived as too sensitive.
Mark VI Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 It comes down to 2 Things 1. Obscene $$ 2. Maturity to handle obscene $$
GG Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Actually, I can make an argument that the decline of hockey is tied to the increasing use of the trap during the '90s. I can also say that the referees refusal to consistantly enforce obstruction calls has harmed the game. Also the increased size of goalie equipment and the introduction of composite sticks (equivalent to aluminum bats) has detracted from on-ice play. The goal of 'finishing checks' has shut down room on the ice and emphasized bigger, and less talented defensement over more offensive-minded players who were more concerned with joining the rush. There's nothing about the game now that resembles the game from the 70s and 80s. The emphasis then was to open up the ice. The emphasis now is to close it down. 129270[/snapback] And I imagine the purists are still talking about the bygone days of the wooden tennis racket. The use of better helmets and pads make football a better game now than 30 years ago, and it still remains a team sport. The technological evolution of hockey and the bigger bodies that populate it is the debate of the purists vs evolutionists. It is a totally different argument than what's happening in NBA, where the concept of teamwork is being tossed to the highlights of 1 on 1 matchups and glams for the slam dunk championships. If the margquee NBA players embraced teamwork, Lakers should not have lost one game last year, let alone get embrarrassed in the finals.
dib Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 So let me understand this. There is a 'black style of play and sportsmanship" yet "We the black people begged for integration" In other words, let us play with you but by our 'rules'. I was under the impression that sportsmanship was universal and race dependent. Mr. Whitlock perpetuates racism with his constant references to black (sorry, african american) and white. The think the bottom line is that the hard working public is tired of the stevestojan these overpaid and spoiled babies (white and 'african american) are getting away with. "Players must bow to their fan base" If there were no fans there would be no need fpr professional atheletes. Come to think of it............
jad1 Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 And I imagine the purists are still talking about the bygone days of the wooden tennis racket. The use of better helmets and pads make football a better game now than 30 years ago, and it still remains a team sport. The technological evolution of hockey and the bigger bodies that populate it is the debate of the purists vs evolutionists. It is a totally different argument than what's happening in NBA, where the concept of teamwork is being tossed to the highlights of 1 on 1 matchups and glams for the slam dunk championships. If the margquee NBA players embraced teamwork, Lakers should not have lost one game last year, let alone get embrarrassed in the finals. 129302[/snapback] The fact is both sports are dumbing down their games. Instead of finding talented players, they're both looking for big guys to take up space and grind down the action. The NBA has tried to introduce the zone defense to clog up the middle and force teams to shoot from the outside, but it's going to take a while for teams to re-introduce shooters to their teams. The NHL has watched the trap turn their game into unwatchable scrums. Players used to come close to scoring 50 goals in 50 games. Now they're lucky if a couple of guys come close to scoring 50 in a year. Rushes up and down the ice have been replaced by tedious cycling in the corner, brilliant stick handling has been trumped by hooking and holding. The game just isn't as exciting as it was. There's no Jordan, Manning, or Culpepper posting "take-a-look-at-this' type of stats to expand interest to new games. And it's not a question of star over team. Guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, LeFleur, Perreault, and Bossy were excellent team players. Those type of players are now extinct, and from the NHLs inaction on the whole subject, it looks like its by design.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 22, 2004 Posted November 22, 2004 Totally agree! What the hell was anybody thinking when Artest put on the headsets during the brawl? Again... Nobody is making comments on what transpired when he was on the table? It is a very big part of this especially when he got hit and dissed by the antagonizing jackass fans. It is almost you can see RA's psyche get shoot down the carpper along with that cup... IT GOES DEEPER, than JUST THE CUP in the face. I think it is Reggie Miller that took them off him... AT LEAST HE GETS A CLUE! The media is also to blame for the show at the scorer's table... I just think nobody wanted to tell RA to get the eff up?
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