Marty Schottenheimer

[BADOLBILZ]

Even if the chosen one that everybody wanted (Bill Cowher) directly recommended him?

 

Marv Levy recommended and hired Dick Jauron and he was RESPONSIBLE for that decision. So why would I care if any head coach who wants no part of the job himself recommends a friend of his for the job?

 

Remember, A LOT of football people sang the praises of hiring Dick Jauron. Because they LIKE HIM. Not because their reputation or careers hinged on it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Marv Levy recommended and hired Dick Jauron and he was RESPONSIBLE for that decision. So why would I care if any head coach who wants no part of the job himself recommends a friend of his for the job?

 

Remember, A LOT of football people sang the praises of hiring Dick Jauron. Because they LIKE HIM. Not because their reputation or careers hinged on it.

 

 

Ahh... Let me guess, because everybody would be peein' in their panties if the Bills got Cowher? Outside of himself, Cowher thinks Gailey is the next best choice.

[first_and_ten]

i am glad that ralph is thinking for himself and not listening to fans....ralph has forgotten more about football than any of us will ever know, collectively...if he was uncomfortable with Schottenheimer, then that is good enough for me....its been 3 years since he was a coach anywhere...has to be a reason for that....

At least Ralph was comfortable with Jauron

[Doc]

Marty with the Raiders??? I guess you're not aware of his hatred for that organization.

 

Marty wasn't interested in any job until now. At least if you believe the multiple reports that he was comfortable with retirement. Therefore, I must admit, I wouldn't bet my house on Tim Graham being right about his interest in the Bills in this instance, but Marty WAS a former Bill who won a championship here. It's possible. And if Graham is right, it was a major mistake to not hire him. People are in love with Marty because he has rebuilt previously struggling franchises many times. He'd be perfect for Buffalo.

 

Exactly. Thanks for the link. Anybody that suggests Marty would work for Al Davis doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

For me, Shottenheimer to Buffalo would have been a clear indication that Ralph was stepping back and going to give it one last honest try. Marty doesn't take the job without full control, which explains the "uncomfortable" part. He would be a total culture change and demand things be done his way and turn the franchise on its head. He's done it time and time again everywhere he has been. That is the sort of vision that this team desperately needs. Not a vision of "Gee, we need some luck, let's rub this rabbit's foot some more. Hey, is that a lucky penny?!" Marty is like Parcells. He may not send a team straight to the Super Bowl, but he can sure bring back respectability, which is something this franchise doesn't have.

 

Raider-ish, indeed.

 

This just shows that Ralph and his cronies are about maintaining their power structure. Fielding a competitive NFL franchise is a secondary concern and whether it happens or not is turned over to nothing but dumb luck. Same as it ever was.

Don't get bogged-down with minutia. Remove the Raiders and there are still 17 other teams.

[RTW2012]

Think about it for a second. When Ralph interviewed Buddy for the GM job, don't you think the first question he asked him was, "Who do you have in mind for HC?" Given Buddy's history with Marty, if Buddy really wanted him, he would have said so then.

 

My conclusion is that Buddy agreed with Ralph that Marty was not the right call.

[BillsWatch]

That's it. I am officially done until Ralph Wilson takes a dirt nap.

 

You could lead by taking a dive and putting FORMER BILLS FAN on tombstone.

[BADOLBILZ]

cowher didnt make the bonehead play calls marty did. cowhers been to 2 super bowls, and won 1. thats 2 and 1 better than marty brain farty

 

You clearly didn't watch Cowher coach the Steelers in those games. He came from Marty's staff, he coaches just like Marty.

 

Neither is a genius of strategy. They both had a lot of bad playoff performances. In those 5 losses to blow homefield for Cowher, none were even closely contested games.

 

The SB appearances don't greatly distinguish Cowher from Marty. Cowher needed a lucky break an the end of key playoff games in both SB runs. Marty got "The Drive" and "The Fumble" for all of his hard work. I'm all for "you are what your record is", but Cowher was never clutch. Good, and lucky? Yes. Just like Marty.

 

Give Marty 14 seasons in Pittsburgh and he'd have done as much, if not more than Cowher. Give Cowher the Browns, KC, Washington and SD? I'm less confident.

[Coach Tuesday]

If this is true it actually makes me feel better about things. It confirms once and for all that Ralph just isn't interested in winning games. It's not like he's flailing madly in search of the path to success and just can't seem to find his way. Or that he realizes he's at life's end and wants one more chance to save his legacy.

 

Nope.

 

The man wants your dollars in his pocket, and he doesn't want to be bothered with anything he dosnt feel like doing on the way to getting them.

 

He definitely could give a rat's ass about a winning product.

[Alphadawg7]

This thread is too long to go through, but I dont get all the backlash over Marty...

 

He has a terrible playoff record and seems to find ways to lose big games. I know the collective whine of the Bills fan base is going to to respond with something along the lines of settling for just seeing the playoffs, but I just cant do that. Sure, getting to the playoffs would be nice, but whats the point if cant win once you get there...lame.

 

Marty is an upgrade over DJ, but I dont see how he could cause uproar by having interest in our job. Hes been on the hot seat at just about every job he has had because he NEVER gets over the hump. I play to win, and Marty doesnt win when it counts. Getting to the playoffs isnt enough, I want to win the SB and I Marty has shown time and time again his teams just dont get there. He has something like a 5-13 record despite taking some very talented teams several times into the playoffs...

 

I would not have been upset if we got him, but I really dont see it as a big deal that we didnt either.

[SDS]

I play to win, and Marty doesnt win when it counts.

 

 

haha...

 

what position?

[dave mcbride]

This thread is too long to go through, but I dont get all the backlash over Marty...

 

He has a terrible playoff record and seems to find ways to lose big games. I know the collective whine of the Bills fan base is going to to respond with something along the lines of settling for just seeing the playoffs, but I just cant do that. Sure, getting to the playoffs would be nice, but whats the point if cant win once you get there...lame.

 

Marty is an upgrade over DJ, but I dont see how he could cause uproar by having interest in our job. Hes been on the hot seat at just about every job he has had because he NEVER gets over the hump. I play to win, and Marty doesnt win when it counts. Getting to the playoffs isnt enough, I want to win the SB and I Marty has shown time and time again his teams just dont get there. He has something like a 5-13 record despite taking some very talented teams several times into the playoffs...

 

I would not have been upset if we got him, but I really dont see it as a big deal that we didnt either.

I have very fond memories of the Chuck Knox years. Seriously. You should align your standards with the possible.

[BADOLBILZ]

Ahh... Let me guess, because everybody would be peein' in their panties if the Bills got Cowher? Outside of himself, Cowher thinks Gailey is the next best choice.

 

Marv Levy is a HOF'er and he recommended Dick Jauron. Outside of himself(and Levy apparently wanted the job), Levy thought Jauron was the next best choice. Does that make it any clearer?

 

Cowher's ENDORSEMENT means no more than Marv Levy's. In fact LESS. Infinitely less, because he's not accountable for the results. Levy is responsible for Jauron, fans know it and he's tarnished his legacy in many people's eyes.

 

Let me put it another, very obvious way. How many of us would recommend a buddy of ours for some job that they wanted if we weren't going to be accountable for the outcome? All of us? I think so.

[Sisyphean Bills]

haha...

 

what position?

Marty doesn't win? In what alternate universe?

 

His playoff record isn't extraordinary? What have the Chiefs done since he left? I seem to recall the Chargers choking a playoff game not too long ago... And, it's not like he had a roster with a half dozen or more Hall-of-Famers like a certain coach with the initials Marv Levy.

 

He's not perfect. But what coach is perfect? None of them. And if there was a coach that never made a mistake, he isn't going to be coming to coach the Buffalo Bills. The Bills get guys like Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey.

 

The Bills weren't getting Parcells. So, outside of Parcells, MS is an established, respected coach who has proven he can take a floundering franchise by the short-hairs and turn it around in the right direction.

 

It's simply amazing that people wouldn't want that after a decade of flailing around and wheel spinning. Why wouldn't you want the Bills to get turned around? Are there new levels of rock bottom to explore? I get hoping that Gailey can do something, but it's not mutually exclusive. Tearing down Shottenheimer because he never won it all but "only" lead his team to the playoffs consistently, doesn't really make Gailey any better or any worse.

[BADOLBILZ]

My conclusion is that Buddy agreed with Ralph that Marty was not the right call.

 

Great minds think alike?

 

I don't think so. Ralph does not like Marty. I don't know exactly why, but I remember when the Bills beat Marty's Chiefs in the AFC Championship at Rich back in 1993 and Marty was not pleased about how the fans treated he and his team and he dissed the Bills and their fans after the game.

 

I was there, and that crowd was lit that day, and they did shock the relative peaceful and cordial KC fans who rolled in in buses to cheer their team with pom-poms in hand. Some of the worst behavior I have ever seen from Bills fans, but that's football and Bills fans have a reputation for being rude and obnoxious when they are winning. If Ralph is still hung up about that, I would not be surprised, but get over it.

[BillsVet]

Yep.

 

We need a Chan-O-Meter.

[Simon]

cowher didnt make the bonehead play calls marty did.

:w00t:

 

When it comes to game management Cowher makes Marty look like Bill Walsh.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

You could lead by taking a dive and putting FORMER BILLS FAN on tombstone.

 

You could lead by posting something witty. But that would require at least two brain cells to collide and form a thought, which is apparently 200% of what you actually have.

 

Additionally, I have a feeling that Ralph will be gone long before me. When that happens, I will reconnect emotionally. Until then, the cord is severed.

[Frit0 Bandit0]

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I'm going to have that put on the back of my new Bills jerseys #4Q

[Orton's Arm]

Mr. Gale Gilbert... all I can say is you definitely would have been in the minority of those not satisfied with Marty being hired. I was holding out hope against hope that we could land Cowher. But Marty was #2 on my list... and I would've been thrilled. Because, I would have reason to believe that with Marty on the sideline, this team would be a 10+ win team within a season or two. Now we have Chan Gailey, who got sheet-canned along with Turk Schonert before the season started. Chan Gailey, who wasn't on anyone's radar for a HC gig in years and years. He hasn't sniffed an NFL HC job in a decade.

 

Honestly, I can't even see the debate here. This debate begins and ends with common knowledge that Marty is infinitely better than most other NFL coaches... and isn't even in the same league as a Chan Gailey. Now I hope and pray that Gailey will somehow turn this thing around, but this feels exactly like it felt when Dick Jauron got hired. I can't even believe the organization made this hire. They knew after the way this season and the Dick Jauron thing turned out that they HAD to bring someone of a certain reputation in here or the pitchforks were going to be out in full force. And their response... Chan... Gailey.

I'd like you to elaborate on the bolded statement. Let's compare Schottenheimer and Gailey across the dimensions most important for head coaches:

 

1. Quality of offensive scheme/coaching. I remember that Schottenheimer's teams were considered unimaginative and predictable on offense while he was in KC. Gailey is a very solid and creative offensive coordinator. Gailey wins this one, unless there's some favorable aspect to Schottenheimer's offenses I'm missing.

2. Quality of defensive scheme/coaching. I'm guessing that the advantage here goes to Schottenheimer, but could be wrong.

3. Quality of special teams schemes/coaching. Unknown.

4. Ability to motivate players, create a disciplined environment, etc. Schottenheimer seems like he's strong in that area. I've heard good things about Gailey in that respect, from a Dallas fan. (That fan pointed out Gailey got Nate Newton to lose 100 pounds, and did a lot of other good things.) This could be a wash, but more information is needed.

5. Quality of game day decisions. I think that both coaches are decent, but not great, in that area.

 

Looking at the above list, I don't see what specific aspects of the head coaching responsibilities Schottenheimer would execute "infinitely better" than Gailey will. If Gailey can get his hands on a good defensive coordinator to implement the switch to a 3-4, this could be a well-coached team!

 

Edit: In 2001, the Chargers drafted Drew Brees. Schottenheimer became the coach in 2002. By 2004, the Chargers had seen enough of Drew Brees to have become convinced he was not the answer. They ended up using the fourth overall pick on Philip Rivers (via trade).

 

While Drew Brees was languishing under a Schottenheimer-coached team, Gailey was off making guys like Kordell Stewart, Tyler Thigpen, and Jay Fielder look good. Tyler Thigpen averaged 6.2 yards per pass attempt under Gailey's coaching in 2007, as compared to 5.9 yards per pass attempt for Drew Brees in 2003 on a Schottenheimer-coached team.

 

Which coach do you think is more likely to fix the Bills' offense: the one who convinced his GM that Drew Brees was not the answer, or the one who whose coaching convinced at least some people that Tyler Thigpen was?

[May Day 10]

i hate ralph wilson