Webster Guy Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I was watching an old clip of Al Davis ranting right after he fired Kiffin , and it struck me how these pathetic old codger owners are ruining the NFL. Not only has the game passed them by but even their personalities and ability to relate to the people in their organization has eroded to the point where its laughable. Ralph included. The Bills need new ownership. The community needs to approach the league and Ralph with a buyout offer structured as a public offering similiar to what they've done in Green Bay. A well managed, publically owned playoff caliber organization. The Packers are owned by their fans. They were incorporated in 1923 as a private, non-profit, tax-exempt organization. Article I of their bylaws states, "this association shall be a community project, intended to promote community welfare...its purposes shall be exclusively charitable." The team can move only through dissolution. A board of directors, elected by the stockholders, manages the team. Imagine how nice it would be if we had a sharp intelligent Board of Directors at the wheel instead of senile old Ralph fumbling his way along. Public ownership in a city like Buffalo where the team is a permanent, rooted civic asset, fans and citizens would be more willing to financially support the Bills. If the fans receive a commitment, they will return loyalty with loyalty, as the fans in Green Bay have overwhelmingly shown. Remember the population of Green Bay is only 200,000 and this system works very well for them. We have a few million if you count the supporting Rochester population. What I don't understand is why cant the Bills follow this model and sell shares of the team to the community. If the commish genuinely wants the Bills to stay, and the community obviously is still behind the team despite it's mismanagement and mediocre product, then why not submit a proposal to the league and a legitimate purchase offer to Ralph. He could remain chairman of the board and majority shareholder even, but there would be a plan in place and a successor elected by a majority when the time comes for him to step down. This stuff is done every single day in corporate America, a proven concept and a refreshing alternative to having these old dinosaurs like Al Davis and Ralph run their organizations into the ground with nobody to answer to. Imagine how much better everyone would feel about this team and the organization if an agreement could be reached here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrid Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 public ownership no longer allowed. GB was grandfathered in. good idea tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 public ownership no longer allowed. GB was grandfathered in.good idea tho. has this ever been challenged under anti trust laws? seems "unamerican" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrid Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 my guess is that it has to do with running the business of the NFL & the value of individual teams. I would think it would give leverage to teams if they can always threaten to move, ie- getting new stadiums. Say for example, the WNY public bought the bills, and refused a new stadium, and ran the team into the ground. Or any city/team for that matter. Seems like the value of the team would plummet, and likewise hurt the NFL. Maybe jacksonville is better example, if they were stuck in jacksnville, the team as a business may not survive. Just a theory, I'm no business expert, but my guess is $$$ is behind that ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Nobody has ever thought of that before. Brilliant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 my guess is that it has to do with running the business of the NFL & the value of individual teams. I would think it would give leverage to teams if they can always threaten to move, ie- getting new stadiums. Say for example, the WNY public bought the bills, and refused a new stadium, and ran the team into the ground. Or any city/team for that matter. Seems like the value of the team would plummet, and likewise hurt the NFL. Maybe jacksonville is better example, if they were stuck in jacksnville, the team as a business may not survive. Just a theory, I'm no business expert, but my guess is $$$ is behind that ban. no doubt it's about $$$..it just seems like it would be against anti trust laws. MONEY......now what was the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I was watching an old clip of Al Davis ranting right after he fired Kiffin , and it struck me how these pathetic old codger owners are ruining the NFL. Not only has the game passed them by but even their personalities and ability to relate to the people in their organization has eroded to the point where its laughable. Ralph included. The Bills need new ownership. The community needs to approach the league and Ralph with a buyout offer structured as a public offering similiar to what they've done in Green Bay. A well managed, publically owned playoff caliber organization. The Packers are owned by their fans. They were incorporated in 1923 as a private, non-profit, tax-exempt organization. Article I of their bylaws states, "this association shall be a community project, intended to promote community welfare...its purposes shall be exclusively charitable." The team can move only through dissolution. A board of directors, elected by the stockholders, manages the team. Imagine how nice it would be if we had a sharp intelligent Board of Directors at the wheel instead of senile old Ralph fumbling his way along. Public ownership in a city like Buffalo where the team is a permanent, rooted civic asset, fans and citizens would be more willing to financially support the Bills. If the fans receive a commitment, they will return loyalty with loyalty, as the fans in Green Bay have overwhelmingly shown. Remember the population of Green Bay is only 200,000 and this system works very well for them. We have a few million if you count the supporting Rochester population. What I don't understand is why cant the Bills follow this model and sell shares of the team to the community. If the commish genuinely wants the Bills to stay, and the community obviously is still behind the team despite it's mismanagement and mediocre product, then why not submit a proposal to the league and a legitimate purchase offer to Ralph. He could remain chairman of the board and majority shareholder even, but there would be a plan in place and a successor elected by a majority when the time comes for him to step down. This stuff is done every single day in corporate America, a proven concept and a refreshing alternative to having these old dinosaurs like Al Davis and Ralph run their organizations into the ground with nobody to answer to. Imagine how much better everyone would feel about this team and the organization if an agreement could be reached here. Gee, another I hate Ralph post. Granted, Ralph has made many mistakes but I why all the rants on old people in general? I am not an Al Davis fan but get off the "pathetic old codger" stuff. Try to be constructive. If you took time to do your homework you would have known that public ownership is NOT ALLOWED. Your shortsighted view that "the community" could organize anything of this magnitude is laughable. If you believe that the politicians of Western NY are the answer I can tell you I will take Ralph Wilson any day. Finally, if Ralph stays on as "majority owner and chairman of the board" as you state, then he basically has all the power anyway. Go back to school and study. Maybe someday you will be a small fraction as smart as the "old dinosaurs" you are criticizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 public ownership no longer allowed. GB was grandfathered in.good idea tho. ^^^ What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 The Bills need new ownership. The community needs to approach the league and Ralph with a buyout offer structured as a public offering similiar to what they've done in Green Bay. A well managed, publically owned playoff caliber organization. FORCE Ralph to sell? Right. Let's just end private property rights now. Welcome to Russia West, comrades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 Gee, another I hate Ralph post. Granted, Ralph has made many mistakes but I why the rants old people in general. I am not an Al Davis fan but get off the "pathetic old codger" stuff. Try to be constructive. If you took time to do your homework you would have known that public ownership is NOT ALLOWED. Your shortsighted view that "the community" could organize anything of this magnitude is laughable. If you believe that the politicians of Western NY are the answer I can tell you I will take Ralph Wilson any day. Finally, if Ralph stays on as "majority owner and chairman of the board" as you state, then he basically has all the power anyway. Go back to school and study. Maybe someday you will be a small fraction as smart as the "old dinosaurs" you are criticizing. Wow. You just told me to be constructive and then slammed me. Nice. I understand public ownership isnt allowed under current NFL policy, I was proposing that it would be a better alternative than our situation, and it seems to be working for another team. The NFL has changed policies in the past and it will continue to change them in the future. Why not look into public ownership? Its called forward thinking, proposing a change for the better, coming up with possible solutions to a worsening situation that needs to be addressed. You called it shortsighted but I think its exactly the opposite. A billion dollar organization with one old man running the show and virtually no plan for transition after his death. I teach business management at Geneseo and use the Bills in my class as an example of why large private organizations can fail. I believe they are failing now and Ralph is too out of touch. It limits our ability to bring in quality GM's and coaches and possibly even free agent players. I make a lot of idiotic posts sometimes on this board, but I actually think this is a decent idea. (i get one a year tops) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 For those interested in this subject and wanting to become informed about it, here are two links: This first one was written for ESPN about two years ago by Luke Russert, the late Tim Russert's son. In the article he presents a plan for creating an ownership group similar to what they have in Green Bay. "Unfortunately, the odds on fan ownership happening outside Green Bay are long. First, it takes a billionaire owner willing to sell at least a portion of the team to a group of citizens, most likely for less than market value. Wilson has been good to Buffalo for 48 years, but I doubt he's feeling that charitable. Second, the NFL banned the idea in 1961 to keep rich men interested in buying football teams. Two-thirds of NFL owners would need to vote yea to overturn that decision. From the sound of it, though, Roger Goodell isn't totally opposed. While the commish doesn't want the entire league to go communal, on July 28 he told Bills fans in western New York that fan ownership provides "a great bond with the community, something we're trying to achieve." http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3533730 The second link is a piece on the exact nature of the Green Bay ownership group. http://www.packers.com/history/fast_facts/stock_history/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I was watching an old clip of Al Davis ranting right after he fired Kiffin , and it struck me how these pathetic old codger owners are ruining the NFL. Not only has the game passed them by but even their personalities and ability to relate to the people in their organization has eroded to the point where its laughable. Ralph included. The Bills need new ownership. The community needs to approach the league and Ralph with a buyout offer structured as a public offering similiar to what they've done in Green Bay. A well managed, publically owned playoff caliber organization. The Packers are owned by their fans. They were incorporated in 1923 as a private, non-profit, tax-exempt organization. Article I of their bylaws states, "this association shall be a community project, intended to promote community welfare...its purposes shall be exclusively charitable." The team can move only through dissolution. A board of directors, elected by the stockholders, manages the team. Imagine how nice it would be if we had a sharp intelligent Board of Directors at the wheel instead of senile old Ralph fumbling his way along. Public ownership in a city like Buffalo where the team is a permanent, rooted civic asset, fans and citizens would be more willing to financially support the Bills. If the fans receive a commitment, they will return loyalty with loyalty, as the fans in Green Bay have overwhelmingly shown. Remember the population of Green Bay is only 200,000 and this system works very well for them. We have a few million if you count the supporting Rochester population. What I don't understand is why cant the Bills follow this model and sell shares of the team to the community. If the commish genuinely wants the Bills to stay, and the community obviously is still behind the team despite it's mismanagement and mediocre product, then why not submit a proposal to the league and a legitimate purchase offer to Ralph. He could remain chairman of the board and majority shareholder even, but there would be a plan in place and a successor elected by a majority when the time comes for him to step down. This stuff is done every single day in corporate America, a proven concept and a refreshing alternative to having these old dinosaurs like Al Davis and Ralph run their organizations into the ground with nobody to answer to. Imagine how much better everyone would feel about this team and the organization if an agreement could be reached here. The problem is that it is not 1923, and I have read a number of times over the years that the other NFL owners would never let another publicly owned team into the league. I don't recall reading a detailed explanation of why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 For those interested in this subject and wanting to become informed about it, here are two links: This first one was written for ESPN about two years ago by Luke Russert, the late Tim Russert's son. In the article he presents a plan for creating an ownership group similar to what they have in Green Bay. "Unfortunately, the odds on fan ownership happening outside Green Bay are long. First, it takes a billionaire owner willing to sell at least a portion of the team to a group of citizens, most likely for less than market value. Wilson has been good to Buffalo for 48 years, but I doubt he's feeling that charitable. Second, the NFL banned the idea in 1961 to keep rich men interested in buying football teams. Two-thirds of NFL owners would need to vote yea to overturn that decision. From the sound of it, though, Roger Goodell isn't totally opposed. While the commish doesn't want the entire league to go communal, on July 28 he told Bills fans in western New York that fan ownership provides "a great bond with the community, something we're trying to achieve." http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3533730 The second link is a piece on the exact nature of the Green Bay ownership group. http://www.packers.com/history/fast_facts/stock_history/ interesting. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Wow. You just told me to be constructive and then slammed me. Nice. I understand public ownership isnt allowed under current NFL policy, I was proposing that it would be a better alternative than our situation, and it seems to be working for another team. The NFL has changed policies in the past and it will continue to change them in the future. Why not look into public ownership? Its called forward thinking, proposing a change for the better, coming up with possible solutions to a worsening situation that needs to be addressed. You called it shortsighted but I think its exactly the opposite. A billion dollar organization with one old man running the show and virtually no plan for transition after his death. I teach business management at Geneseo and use the Bills in my class as an example of why large private organizations can fail. I believe they are failing now and Ralph is too out of touch. It limits our ability to bring in quality GM's and coaches and possibly even free agent players. I make a lot of idiotic posts sometimes on this board, but I actually think this is a decent idea. (i get one a year tops) Who says it would be a better situation then what we have now? It would only be better for the whiney fans who believe anything negative about the organisation that any hack reporter says. Right now the Bills under the current ownership sell out every game and have fan support, the NFL doesn't care about anything more then that. The NFL put that policy in place cause they Didn't want any other team to have the same ownership, why would they turn around now and say "Ok, you can do it even though we don't like the idea" Maybe some of the reason why players and coaches don't want to come to Buffalo is because Buffalo is just not an attractive place to live? The population is dwindling and people are leaving all the time cause theres nothing there. Look at McGahee, he wanted out not because of the ownership situation and Ralphs meddling but because there was nothing in Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Wow. You just told me to be constructive and then slammed me. Nice. I understand public ownership isnt allowed under current NFL policy, I was proposing that it would be a better alternative than our situation, and it seems to be working for another team. The NFL has changed policies in the past and it will continue to change them in the future. Why not look into public ownership? Its called forward thinking, proposing a change for the better, coming up with possible solutions to a worsening situation that needs to be addressed. You called it shortsighted but I think its exactly the opposite. A billion dollar organization with one old man running the show and virtually no plan for transition after his death. I teach business management at Geneseo and use the Bills in my class as an example of why large private organizations can fail. I believe they are failing now and Ralph is too out of touch. It limits our ability to bring in quality GM's and coaches and possibly even free agent players. I make a lot of idiotic posts sometimes on this board, but I actually think this is a decent idea. (i get one a year tops) I did not mean to slam you. But why do you slam people because they are old and why discredit their entire career? As an educator do you not see the wrong in that? Forward thinking? Proposing an idea that you already know cannot happen (public ownership in the NFL) is not forward thinking. That is wishful thinking and it provides no path forward. When you teach your business class by what measure are you determining the Bills to be a failure? This poorly run private company has been growing and making money for 50 years. Don't even tell me Ralph is lucky because other franchises and owners have failed in the NFL comparatively speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conch Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 A board of directors, elected by the stockholders, manages the team. Imagine how nice it would be if we had a sharp intelligent Board of Directors at the wheel instead of senile old Ralph fumbling his way along. Yes, it will be as well run as the City of Buffalo where sharp intelligent leaders managed the city into 50 years of decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Once you start calling a guy out of touch because of his age, you lose all credibility with anyone who has known senior citizens who are or were sharp at what you'd consider an advanced age. Nothing gets me more riled up than seeing punks calling Ralph out of touch, senile, in diapers etc. You punks know nothing about Ralph, his mental capacity etc. Here's a clue-listen to the guy at his press conferences-he may talk a little too slow for you, and the team may be managed poorly (at least for on the field performance), but there is nothing to indicate he's anything other than 10x more on the ball than those who knock him. Another thing-nobody except Ralph & people close to him know what the succession plan is-it may be very solid, nobody here knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Maybe some of the reason why players and coaches don't want to come to Buffalo is because Buffalo is just not an attractive place to live? The population is dwindling and people are leaving all the time cause theres nothing there. Look at McGahee, he wanted out not because of the ownership situation and Ralphs meddling but because there was nothing in Buffalo I'd buy it for players, but I think most coaches don't care where they live - they get up, go to work, come home, go to sleep. There's not a lot of time for nightlife on an NFL coach's schedule. What there is is in the offseason, and they can go wherever then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 I was watching an old clip of Al Davis ranting right after he fired Kiffin , and it struck me how these pathetic old codger owners are ruining the NFL. Not only has the game passed them by but even their personalities and ability to relate to the people in their organization has eroded to the point where its laughable. Ralph included. I'd argue that noveau money mongers like Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones, and Bob Kraft are far more responsible for "ruining the NFL." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbuk3 Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 has this ever been challenged under anti trust laws? seems "unamerican" I think the NFL is somehow exempt from the laws (seriously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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