DrDawkinstein Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Has he refused to interview because hes trying to stay focused on the playoffs or refused to consider our HC position??? Remember less than a week ago it was claimed Grimm refused an interview as well. Will we let the damn process work itself out instead of reacting to ever Schecter report????? i came in here to ask the same thing. i have to imagine this is more along the lines of wanting to keep himself and his players focused on the task at hand. i hope so at least. to answer your last question, i think you know better than to expect patience and rational from this board.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I know it's not wrong, but really just taking a step back and looking at the entire picture; I do really wonder "who" is to blame. We all know that Modrak did a really good job in Philly - I have no clue what Guy's past has been like. When TD was here, we all know that he was King Tut and made all the decisions. My feeling on Marv is that he let the coach make a lot of calls and I suspect that the same philosphy carried through... I am sure this will be different with Nix, but we really need to find an HC that believes in building a team the way Nix wants to. I only see 2 candidates right now that would fit that picture...Cowher and Grimm. Dumping the Tampa 2 and instally a 3-4 or even a 4-3 will require a bit of an overhaul in defensive talent. If we are having trouble filling the HC positions, imagine what it's going to be like to get FAs to come here to overhaul the defense...I know this is a terrible comparison, but hell I tried to do this on Madden and doing things the "right" way as if it was the real world still took me 2 seasons to switch the D and I didn't do much to the Offense. Part of me thinks that the FO may know this and may go with Frazier to keep the Tampa - 2 and rebuild the O to get us competitive...and then the wheels will spin and spin for 3 or 4 years and we decide to dump Frazier and switch Defensive schemes. Hiring a Cowher or a Grimm type of HC will set us back a couple of seasons if we decide to overhaul the D and how much will we have to overpay FAs to come here?? Even if we havea 2 or 3 great drafts, there is still a long way to go with a non-Tampa 2 coach... As I said above and elsewhere, it's not apparent to me that Frazier is wedded to the Tampa 2. He walked into a situation in Minnesota with two dominating DTs and the best tackling corner in the league. Then they traded for the best pass rushing DE in the league. Seems to me that it makes sense to run the Tampa 2. As for the Tampa 2, it's a perfectly good defense if it has the right people. The Bills don't have have the right people for it except for in the secondary, but that just begs the question of how the Bills' unit would look if it ran another system. The 46: with those crappy LBs? The 3-4: Exactly who would play nose? Given the Bills talent level, the Tampa 2 was most likely the best scheme for them the past couple of years. People get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hung up on scheme labels. Look at the players, folks. Give a good coach good players, and they'll be fine regardless of scheme.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Tell me again why they would get rid of Fewell and hire Frazier? Is it because of all that wild buzz and excitement the hiring of Leslie would create in WNY? Um, maybe because he's better???
Reed83HOF Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 If you see it as a 3 or 4 year job to correct the last 4 or 5 years of blunders, and the owner is a frail 91 year old, do you want to put your name, effort, and heart next to it? Not without some serious cash and a commitment to change and words to that effect would be escape clauses in my contract... To switch D schemes and having FAs willing to sign resonable contracts over the next 2-3 seasons...I would guess we are at least 4 years out (along with strong drafts) of being a contender..Yes we have some pieces, but to overhaul an entire defensive system and fix the OL and WR and QB issues...you are talking about 4 good drafts and at least 2 good FA periods... Keep the Tampa-2 and fix the offense, 2 seasons would get us to the playoffs would be my guess and that is about it...we won't go much further...
Reed83HOF Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Cowher would attract FOs to Buffalo and quality DC to design/implement the 3-4 Yes he would...provided the purse strings open up... You are looking at probably at least 4 years before the pieces are there and they are able to play cohesively...
transient Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Not for nothing, but aside from being employed by the team for like 10 months - Nix was an outsider. He was only here for the 2009 season...I do agree it would have been nice to see us interview people from other teams who had no or very little ties to us, but during the decade of disgrace - Nix had nothing to do with us and well..he found some awesome players for SD. Would anyones opinion change if he had not been employed with us during 2009 and then hired after? My point is is that I think most would have said, yeah he's old but he has a good track record of finding great players and in his presser he said a lot of things that the fans have been wanting. Just becuase he was employed by the bills for 10 months out of 10 years doesn't make him an "insider"... Alan Wilson even mentioned that Modrak wanted Cushing over Maybin. John Guy has even been on the record as saying that he provides recommendations and it is up to others within the organization to decide who they want to pursue and how much to offer (I cannot believe I am standing up for these two). It just really makes me realize that there is more to the picture than we care to believe. TD was an atrosicous GM/president, Marv was over his head as GM. We didn't draft great players with Williams, Mularkey or Jauron. I think there are lots of things that factor into someone's decision to come here or not to come here. TD made a lot of bone headed decisions and deserved to get shi*t canned. Marv went with a consensus approach to drafting and the results were about the same as the TD era. I think one thing that may have happened was that during this time too much final say was given to the HC. Marv was an HC and much like Parcells and other HCs want to be able to have a say as to who is on their team. After Marv, I am sure the same process went on and DJ most likely had final say. I find myself wondering how much of this decade is TD, Marv's and DJs fault and not so much of poor recommendations by Modrak and Guy. RW was the common denominator, but honestly how much say did he really have??? One thing I do want to toss in about B. Schotty is that I am not sure how I feel about a young and hungry up and coming coordinator, the kid is 36 yrs old and what exactly has he accomplished over a period of time either playing or coaching? Yes his father is a great regular season coach, but what has this kid done? I feel the same way about McDermott in Philly...I do not want Frazier, I am sick of a player's coach and someone who is Dungy/Jauron like laid-back; plus the Tampa 2 needs to go out the door. Russ Grimm is a more interesting choice, he has played on 3 SB teams, was a finalist for the Steelers job and has a good track record in coaching as well...Oh yeah he is a finalist for the HOF for thr 4th time...I think I just figured out who I would like to see as our coach... On the point about Nix, personally I wonder if the Bills didn't bring him at the beginning of this past season with the expectation of elevating him to GM. It gives RW the chance to see if he fit his idea of GM without giving him the title upfront. It also would explain why Guy was the only other candidate interviewed (Rooney Rule).
Doc Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 When I read that BS said his father was done coaching, I was done with him as a HC'ing candidate. Only as a package deal would I want him (them). Now he's made the decision for the Bills, thankfully.
Reed83HOF Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 As I said above and elsewhere, it's not apparent to me that Frazier is wedded to the Tampa 2. He walked into a situation in Minnesota with two dominating DTs and the best tackling corner in the league. Then they traded for the best pass rushing DE in the league. Seems to me that it makes sense to run the Tampa 2. As for the Tampa 2, it's a perfectly good defense if it has the right people. The Bills don't have have the right people for it except for in the secondary, but that just begs the question of how the Bills' unit would look if it ran another system. The 46: with those crappy LBs? The 3-4: Exactly who would play nose? Given the Bills talent level, the Tampa 2 was most likely the best scheme for them the past couple of years. People get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hung up on scheme labels. Look at the players, folks. Give a good coach good players, and they'll be fine regardless of scheme. I can't totally disgree with this, we don't know what kind of D Frazier would bring. The last three years have shown me that we are too small on D, small fast guys do not cut it when the weather gets bad. And you bring up a great point, the only personnel we have is for a small Tampa 2...Changing that will take at least 2 good off seasons without even touching the offense. When GW and MM were here, our offense sucked as well, but the D was much better than it is now...We cannot stop the run, we don't rush the passer really well, but we can pick off passess...The person who gets hired is going to need time to right this ship...I wouldn't expect too much the first couple seasons if they dump defensive players...
Endzone Animal Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Um, maybe because he's better??? Better how? Certainly not more qualified, and certainly not more experienced. Let's be honest, "better" means "pretending Ralph is making real changes", when, of course, he's not.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Better how? Certainly not more qualified, and certainly not more experienced. Let's be honest, "better" means "pretending Ralph is making real changes", when, of course, he's not. He's more experienced in terms of head coaching (college), working in a variety of systems, and working for more good teams. Plus he was a damn good player himself on one of the best teams of all time.
thewildrabbit Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Before everyone panics... Gary Kubiak also turned down several HCing jobs, because later on he stated he just wasn't ready. Jason Garrett has also turned down head coaching jobs, he wants the Dallas gig after Phillips leaves. OTOH, wow... it looks to the world like this franchise is even worse then the Detroit Lions
Leonidas Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 As I said above and elsewhere, it's not apparent to me that Frazier is wedded to the Tampa 2. He walked into a situation in Minnesota with two dominating DTs and the best tackling corner in the league. Then they traded for the best pass rushing DE in the league. Seems to me that it makes sense to run the Tampa 2. As for the Tampa 2, it's a perfectly good defense if it has the right people. The Bills don't have have the right people for it except for in the secondary, but that just begs the question of how the Bills' unit would look if it ran another system. The 46: with those crappy LBs? The 3-4: Exactly who would play nose? Given the Bills talent level, the Tampa 2 was most likely the best scheme for them the past couple of years. People get waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hung up on scheme labels. Look at the players, folks. Give a good coach good players, and they'll be fine regardless of scheme. Give some of us some credit, Dave. It's not the label, it's the softness of the scheme. I watched the Patriots carve up the Colts defense this year, just like they do most years, with their vaunted cover 2. I've watched this Bills "bend but don't break" defense which has led the bills to a, what, 1-19, record against the Patriots over the last ten years? Look, there's no reason whatsoever to suggest he wouldn't run the Tampa 2 here. If you're a fan of that scheme, then be in favor of Frazier coming here. But if you're not then I don't think he's your guy. For the record, I agree with you that we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 or a 46, and so few people run a base 46 anyway that it's moot. I've been a fan of the 3-4 since I was a kid. I really like hybrid defenses and the "amoeba" look a lot of defenses give. The Tampa 2 doesn't confuse anybody, and more than anything else, that's why I don't like it. When Jim Johnson or Dick LeBeau or Buddy Ryan were calling defensive plays you never knew who was coming in. When Perry Fewell or Jerry Gray were, you did. That's an oversimplification, but it is what it is.
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Give some of us some credit, Dave. It's not the label, it's the softness of the scheme. I watched the Patriots carve up the Colts defense this year, just like they do most years, with their vaunted cover 2. I've watched this Bills "bend but don't break" defense which has led the bills to a, what, 1-19, record against the Patriots over the last ten years? Look, there's no reason whatsoever to suggest he wouldn't run the Tampa 2 here. If you're a fan of that scheme, then be in favor of Frazier coming here. But if you're not then I don't think he's your guy. For the record, I agree with you that we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 or a 46, and so few people run a base 46 anyway that it's moot. I've been a fan of the 3-4 since I was a kid. I really like hybrid defenses and the "amoeba" look a lot of defenses give. The Tampa 2 doesn't confuse anybody, and more than anything else, that's why I don't like it. When Jim Johnson or Dick LeBeau or Buddy Ryan were calling defensive plays you never knew who was coming in. When Perry Fewell or Jerry Gray were, you did. That's an oversimplification, but it is what it is. I can't give you credit here (no offense intended). The schem works great if the DTs are great. Indy doesn't have those guys. The Bucs did, and Minnesota does now. Monte Kiffin looks just as good as those guys you cite, but really, it's because all of them had good players. Buddy didn't look so great in the desert, and LeBeau didn't look so great in Cincy. It's not because they were bad coaches. Jerry Gray never ran a Tampa 2 scheme, so I have no idea why he's being mentioned here.
thewildrabbit Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Frazier was fired by Marvin Lewis in Cincy, what does that tell you about him... Another Dick Jauron clone
Endzone Animal Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 He's more experienced in terms of head coaching (college), working in a variety of systems, and working for more good teams. Plus he was a damn good player himself on one of the best teams of all time. A former small college coach who once played the game? Gotta say, that's not reaching very high. Perry Fewell has at least 7 games of NFL head coaching experience, and showed he could go 3-4 to finish the year for a terrible Buffalo football team. He would be able to put together a staff quickly, knows the area, wants the job, and showed that he would implement the hard-nosed style of football that Bills fans have been longing for seemingly forever. I see Fewell as the better pick.
Leonidas Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I can't give you credit here (no offense intended). The schem works great if the DTs are great. Indy doesn't have those guys. The Bucs did, and Minnesota does now. Monte Kiffin looks just as good as those guys you cite, but really, it's because all of them had good players. Buddy didn't look so great in the desert, and LeBeau didn't look so great in Cincy. It's not because they were bad coaches. Jerry Gray never ran a Tampa 2 scheme, so I have no idea why he's being mentioned here. I didn't mean that Gray ran the Tampa 2, just that he wasn't exactly the defensive "wizard" that LeBeau, Ryan, and Johnson are/were. And I agree on Monte Kiffin. But once Tampa's elite players got old/left (Sapp left, Ahanotu got older and wasn't elite to begin with, Spires got old and wasn't elite to begin with, Brooks got old, Rice got old) their defense declined precipitously. You can still run a 4-3 without running a Tampa 2. I'm not sure that the personnel isn't there for that.
buffletucky Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Leslie Frazier is a strong candidate. Not sure why everyone is down on him. He probably is the strongest candidate we will interview, unless Jason Garrett truly is a dark horse. As has been the case in the past, and will continue to be the case going forward, until the following three things happen, it doesn't matter who is HC 1) The post-Ralph Wilson ownership situation is resolved 2) RW opens up his pocket books to show that he is committed to success 3) RW completely steps back from having influence on personnel decisions. This includes who to hire in the FO, who to draft, who to sign and who to re-sign. It is no wonder that coaches are afraid to coach the Bills. Though, as I've said, there are also plenty of reasons a HC should consider coming to Buffalo. I just think they are overshadowed by historical concerns.
sharper802 Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 This is so sad. RW has no respect by anyone in this league it seems. Time for Commish to step up and advise RW and his "advisors" on how to improve our state of affiars with this organization before we are a total 100% laughing stock. Haven't you heard - we are a total 100% laughing stock.
buffletucky Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Leslie Frazier is a strong candidate. Not sure why everyone is down on him. He probably is the strongest candidate we will interview, unless Jason Garrett truly is a dark horse. As has been the case in the past, and will continue to be the case going forward, until the following three things happen, it doesn't matter who is HC 1) The post-Ralph Wilson ownership situation is resolved 2) RW opens up his pocket books to show that he is committed to success 3) RW completely steps back from having influence on personnel decisions. This includes who to hire in the FO, who to draft, who to sign and who to re-sign. It is no wonder that coaches are afraid to coach the Bills. Though, as I've said, there are also plenty of reasons a HC should consider coming to Buffalo. I just think they are overshadowed by historical concerns. I agree that Ralph needs to announce an exit plan as far as new ownership when he's gone or he needs to make an announcement that he will begin to sell off shares to the new ownership group, right away, securing the post ralph era. This will be the only thing that can possibly be enough for any of these "big time" coach's to feel good about coming to town.
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