thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 The message was not anti Bills. For those of you who think it was, perhaps you are deflecting, or perhaps you are a bit to sensitive. Let me be clear. I love the Bills, always have. But we need to be more responsible fans and hold the higher ups at OBD to more accountability. If we do not, than our worst fears will be 100% realized. They will leave if this franchise is not turned around. My response is get it together, or just go....But do not continue to string us all along and turn this franchise into more of a joke than it already is. The fact is we should look at our time and the money we spend on the Bills as an investment. the Bills should be held to a high standard. As a steward of that investment and they have failed to live up to that standard. If you are content with just going and seeing a medicore product from a medicore franchise and are unwilling to do anything about it (out of fear of them leaving), than I feel sorry for you, because you are not being a responsible steward of your own time and money....and that is your problem. But don't get pissed at me for asking for some accountablility form this franchise, they owe me and everyone else who cares about this team that. Perhaps, tony, you should try saying what you mean in the original post next time. Your comments throughout this thread completely belie your first post in it, in which you paint your stance as though you are "done with the Bills", despite the fact that--as undeniably evident from your follow-up posts--you clearly are not. This personally is something that I find ridiculous. Not just from you, but from anyone in any situation. If you are "done" with someone or something, then just move on. Announcing it to the world is, undeniably, a cry to get noticed, not the mark of someone that is moving on. Throughout the subsequent discussion--which you obviously invited by starting the thread--you have failed to realize the relevant fact that other people's definition of "commit to becoming a winning organization that we can be proud of" may, in fact, be far different from yours. It appears, from your original post, that hiring anyone other than a Superbowl winning head coach represents something other than such a commitment. Clearly, many people on this board disagree. You also appear as though you don't understand capitalism or the free market in the slightest when you make comments such as: "But don't get pissed at me for asking for some accountablility form this franchise, they owe me and everyone else who cares about this team that." Riddle me this, tony: who, exactly, forced you to "invest" in this team? Nobody. You chose to, period. They owe you nothing...at all. Ralph Wilson puts a product on the field, and it is your choice whether to "invest" in it or not. If you "invest" in the product, and you find it to be sub-standard, then you simply stop investing. You can't get mad at the producer of the product when it was 100% obvious from the moment of your investment that you have absolutely no guarantee of satisfaction, and no opportunity to get your investment back. Ralph Wilson has provided you, your family, and everyone else in the Greater Buffalo Area with a professional sports franchise for a half-century. It is completely up to you whether you choose to be grateful or scornful for that, but to assume that you are owed something because a local business entity accepted billions of dollars from willing "investors", who received exactly what they knew they would (the right to attend football games), is--in my mind--incredibly misguided. I hope this makes sense to you.
Endzone Animal Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Ralph is lucky to have Buffalo, not the other way around. Buffalo fans are the best in the world, and Ralph is a piece of garbage owner who gives them one losing team after the next in return for their devotion. Ralph simply is beneath Buffalo. Buffalo is better than him, deserves better than him, and, when he is gone, Buffalo will be better off without him.
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Ralph is lucky to have Buffalo, not the other way around. Buffalo fans are the best in the world, and Ralph is a piece of garbage owner who gives them one losing team after the next in return for their devotion. Ralph simply is beneath Buffalo. Buffalo is better than him, deserves better than him, and, when he is gone, Buffalo will be better off without him. You sound like a high school girl that recently got dumped by the popular boy; I really am starting to feel bad for you dude. Oh, and by the way (since--based on your post history, you've never, ever answered the question), why are you here?
Endzone Animal Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 You sound like a high school girl that recently got dumped by the popular boy; I really am starting to feel bad for you dude. Oh, and by the way (since--based on your post history, you've never, ever answered the question), why are you here? Project much, my battered friend? You must have the biggest inferiority complex on this message board. Still, as I said before, I do offer you my pity, and hope one day you'll be strong enough to realize you deserve better than the turd sandwiches Ralph's been feeding you for the better part of 50 years.
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Project much, my battered friend? You must have the biggest inferiority complex on this message board. Still, as I said before, I do offer you my pity, and hope one day you'll be strong enough to realize you deserve better than the turd sandwiches Ralph's been feeding you for the better part of 50 years. Project? How so? Inferiority, I'm not sure where you're getting that from...is it the fact that I want to know why you persist in coming to a Bills message board to bash the team, fans, and owner? The fact that you think you're owed something from a business that you willingly lent your support to, with no guarantee, is--in my opinion--both hilarious and pathetic. BTW...why are you here?
Endzone Animal Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Project? How so? Inferiority, I'm not sure where you're getting that from...is it the fact that I want to know why you persist in coming to a Bills message board to bash the team, fans, and owner? BTW...why are you here? Can you read?
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Can you read? Wait, wait, did you finally answer the question and I missed it? EDIT: oh, no, no you didn't. Ok, then, why are you here?
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Can you read? Yes, yes I can. You criticize Ralph, the team he's put together, and anyone that supports it. That's bashing. Now, why are you here?
tonyd19 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Posted January 12, 2010 Perhaps, tony, you should try saying what you mean in the original post next time. Your comments throughout this thread completely belie your first post in it, in which you paint your stance as though you are "done with the Bills", despite the fact that--as undeniably evident from your follow-up posts--you clearly are not. This personally is something that I find ridiculous. Not just from you, but from anyone in any situation. If you are "done" with someone or something, then just move on. Announcing it to the world is, undeniably, a cry to get noticed, not the mark of someone that is moving on. Throughout the subsequent discussion--which you obviously invited by starting the thread--you have failed to realize the relevant fact that other people's definition of "commit to becoming a winning organization that we can be proud of" may, in fact, be far different from yours. It appears, from your original post, that hiring anyone other than a Superbowl winning head coach represents something other than such a commitment. Clearly, many people on this board disagree. You also appear as though you don't understand capitalism or the free market in the slightest when you make comments such as: "But don't get pissed at me for asking for some accountablility form this franchise, they owe me and everyone else who cares about this team that." Riddle me this, tony: who, exactly, forced you to "invest" in this team? Nobody. You chose to, period. They owe you nothing...at all. Ralph Wilson puts a product on the field, and it is your choice whether to "invest" in it or not. If you "invest" in the product, and you find it to be sub-standard, then you simply stop investing. You can't get mad at the producer of the product when it was 100% obvious from the moment of your investment that you have absolutely no guarantee of satisfaction, and no opportunity to get your investment back. Ralph Wilson has provided you, your family, and everyone else in the Greater Buffalo Area with a professional sports franchise for a half-century. It is completely up to you whether you choose to be grateful or scornful for that, but to assume that you are owed something because a local business entity accepted billions of dollars from willing "investors", who received exactly what they knew they would (the right to attend football games), is--in my mind--incredibly misguided. I hope this makes sense to you. OK so by your logic, anyone who has ever been defrauded in an investment or has expected sound judgement from the management or the board of directors so shareholders can recieve proper value for their investment, should just shut up and not worry about it? Or I suppose they could just not buy anymore stock in that company. You are 100% wrong. This team owes all of us. THEY DO NOT OWE US A SUPERBOWL, THEY OWE US SOUND MANAGEMENT. Also, had you read my original post, my being done with the bills is a conditional propsition, based on the idea that if they continue to be this dysfunctional franchise I will be done with them. This was not a cry for help it is a logic conclusion for years of poor performance and mismanagement. Also, as my proession I am the owner and founder of a wealth mangement group with over 100 million in liquid assets, insurance, real estate, and lending instruments. I have a very solid understanding of capital markets. Perhaps you should brush up though.
tonyd19 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Posted January 12, 2010 Look At Me Please. This thread, though probably cathartic to write, is really all about your feelings. Self serving threads not submitted to further discussion are LAMPS in my opinion. I only suggest it because you may have gotten a little less condemnation if you acknowledged the fact from the get go. At least then people may not have thought you were taking yourself so seriously. Then again, maybe not. That is funny, but far from the truth. I wanted to start this thread to get people thinking about what we are all really doing by supporting this team and how it can be better. Perhaps some tough love is what this organization needs. It has little to do with me. I think by talking about the fears many bills fans have (mainly the idea that we must support this team no matter what or they will leave, must be addressed, as it is a position of fear.) Apparantly the thread did hit a nerve and I am glad people are talking about it. Hopefully it does some good and makes people look at how they view their commitment to this team and if that needs to addressed.
Meark Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Well if I was 9 in 1988....I think that makes me a bit older. Like I said, I knew this would not be a popular topic, but it should be addressed. Should be addressed? I don't think anyone gives a **** if you move along.. no address necessary.
tonyd19 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Posted January 12, 2010 Should be addressed? I don't think anyone gives a **** if you move along.. no address necessary. Ahhh the true source of ignorance, the lack of ability to listen.
thebandit27 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 OK so by your logic, anyone who has ever been defrauded in an investment or has expected sound judgement from the management or the board of directors so shareholders can recieve proper value for their investment, should just shut up and not worry about it? Or I suppose they could just not buy anymore stock in that company. You are 100% wrong. This team owes all of us. THEY DO NOT OWE US A SUPERBOWL, THEY OWE US SOUND MANAGEMENT. Also, had you read my original post, my being done with the bills is a conditional propsition, based on the idea that if they continue to be this dysfunctional franchise I will be done with them. This was not a cry for help it is a logic conclusion for years of poor performance and mismanagement. Also, as my proession I am the owner and founder of a wealth mangement group with over 100 million in liquid assets, insurance, real estate, and lending instruments. I have a very solid understanding of capital markets. Perhaps you should brush up though. You have not been defrauded, tony. Far from it, in fact. I'd expect someone with your affluence to understand that if you make a poor investment, it's your fault, not the company's. As I'm certain you know, to invest in a company means to invest in all aspects of it. The fact that one (or more) of the company's divisions doesn't function soundly does not absolve you of your responsibility as an investor. The Bills are not a public asset, they are a private company. And as a private company, they owe you nothing. You bought their product, they gave you their product, nothing more, nothing less. You did so knowing that you risked receiving a poor product with no money-back guarantee, that's your problem, not theirs. And yes, I read your original post. And you clearly stated this: I have followed them through thick and thin. I can honestly say that if the Bills hire Leslie Frazier or another up and comming coordinator to be the head coach instead of doing whatever it takes to get a proven leader in here, than I am done with this organization. Which to me, as I said, sounds like "hire a Superbowl winning head coach or I'm through". If that's not what you meant, then--as I suggested--you may choose to say what you mean next time.
tonyd19 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Posted January 12, 2010 You have not been defrauded, tony. Far from it, in fact. I'd expect someone with your affluence to understand that if you make a poor investment, it's your fault, not the company's. As I'm certain you know, to invest in a company means to invest in all aspects of it. The fact that one (or more) of the company's divisions doesn't function soundly does not absolve you of your responsibility as an investor. The Bills are not a public asset, they are a private company. And as a private company, they owe you nothing. You bought their product, they gave you their product, nothing more, nothing less. You did so knowing that you risked receiving a poor product with no money-back guarantee, that's your problem, not theirs. And yes, I read your original post. And you clearly stated this: I have followed them through thick and thin. I can honestly say that if the Bills hire Leslie Frazier or another up and comming coordinator to be the head coach instead of doing whatever it takes to get a proven leader in here, than I am done with this organization. Which to me, as I said, sounds like "hire a Superbowl winning head coach or I'm through". If that's not what you meant, then--as I suggested--you may choose to say what you mean next time. My meaning to that phrase is "get a head coach that can bring some credibility to this franchise" I am not a die hard Cowher guy, although I would be very happy if he was here. Billick would be fine, Dungy would be fine, I'd be fine with Martz...Just someone who has been there and done it and is a strong leader ( I do not think I can strss strong credible leader enough, since that is precisly what this franchise has lacked since Bill Polian left) that the organization can rally around. I think Leslie Frazier would make a very good head coach one day...he is just not what this team needs right now. Also, I do not think I have been defrauded either, but the Bills do owe their fans. The fans are mlike shareholders and shareholders hold the companies they invest in accountable. We as Bills fans vote everyday about how we invest in this team. We do it though the merchandise we buy, or the tickets we buy, or the Directv we purchase. When you invest you are not guaranteed a retrn, but you need to be guaranteed accountability. that being said, I like ralph Wilson a s abusiness owner. I think he has done a lot of good things for the City of Buffalo. I believe that most of buffalos issue stem not from money or lack of effort, but more from a lack of leadership, corporate disorganization, and pure ego. As I have said, the Bills owe the fans sound leadership and management and I do not think that is too much to ask for. I do not expect them to be in the Superbowl every year. I do expect them to run their business effeciently and not threaten to leae the city if the fans do not pony up and go to more games...that is absurd. You
ndirish1978 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 That is funny, but far from the truth. I wanted to start this thread to get people thinking about what we are all really doing by supporting this team and how it can be better. Perhaps some tough love is what this organization needs. It has little to do with me. I think by talking about the fears many bills fans have (mainly the idea that we must support this team no matter what or they will leave, must be addressed, as it is a position of fear.) Apparantly the thread did hit a nerve and I am glad people are talking about it. Hopefully it does some good and makes people look at how they view their commitment to this team and if that needs to addressed. Fair enough. It was just a thought. I can understand the sentiment, but thought you may have been able to express it differently and avoid all the attacks.
Meark Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Guess what: There are more of us than you think. Take off your blinders and realize that a utopian world of blind Ralph Wilson drones does not exist. You want this forum strictly for the use of "Kool-aid drinking Billievers"? That would sure make for a fun message board...I suggest you realize we want our team free from the clutches of the evil Detroit miser who extorts the fans without reward. We will be happy to root for the Bills, even if they suck, so long as the OWNER is doing all he can to make them winners, and unconditionally commit to Buffalo as the permanent home for his team.. He wants to put out a cheap, losing product that the ignorant masses will forever support unconditionally. You are only enabling this behavior with the "BILLIEVING" garbage. Stop thinking small, and buying into Wilson's game. Start rejecting the perpetual abuse, the endless preying on your fears, and start BILLIEVING that Ralph is LUCKY to have Buffalo to represent his team, NOT the other way around. If he doesn't appreciate Buffalo, and do everything in his power to please his customers, HE can go eff himself. Don't worry bro.. he will be dead soon.
jester43 Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Ralph is lucky to have Buffalo, not the other way around. Buffalo fans are the best in the world, and Ralph is a piece of garbage owner who gives them one losing team after the next in return for their devotion. Ralph simply is beneath Buffalo. Buffalo is better than him, deserves better than him, and, when he is gone, Buffalo will be better off without him. amen brother...
Meark Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Why it actually took like 7 like and like a half days like you know. Like i didnt relaize this was like english class like i was like in like high school again like my teacher trying to like correct me grammer. Like and like ripping me like states like that you have like no argument like left, so like you should just like go away. take your avatar down cause like you are like no obviously like a Bills fan. Seriously dude. If you dont like the Bills, dont be on this board. Why is that such a hard concept. (this took 5 min to write because i had to strategically place all the likes Dude.. you like have a serious like problem.. Like please lay off the word like.. Like thanks!
Meark Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Ahhh the true source of ignorance, the lack of ability to listen. Ignorance? You showed your ignorance by starting this thread.
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