MRW Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 I just want them to hire someone who was a HC before. They promised big changes and I dont want us to hire another coordinator. I know all personalities are different but this is just my personal opinion I understand where you're coming from, but the pool of proven head coaches is extremely small. It's pretty much Cowher and Billick, depending on how you view Billick's last few years in Baltimore (I would not be wild about that hire, but it would have some logic to it). After that it seems to me you're talking about guys who enjoyed marginal and fleeting success their first go-round, and I find it hard to get excited about that as opposed to giving a new guy a shot.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 I guess we just havent had the best luck with coordinators turned HC in the past
MRW Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 I guess we just havent had the best luck with coordinators turned HC in the past No, but then again how many successful coaches have the Bills ever had? But if you look around the league, there aren't that many guys on their second or third team enjoying success. I think 9/12 coaches in the playoffs this year got their start as head coaches with their current teams - I don't know if that's typical, but it seems to indicate that a lack of previous experience isn't an impossible obstacle to overcome.
Dr. Fong Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Not sure how long you have been a fan but this is what would end it for you? I can name hundreds of other things that would cause fans to stop following the Bills. Hiring Frazier shouldn't be one of the them. Since 1972 the year I was born. My first fight in school was because I brought a Bills book bag to school one of the years they went 2-14. And yes if they hire Frazier I'm just done with this team. I don't see anything that he has done to make me want him as the coach of my favorite team. I'm tired of backing a team that isn't committed to winning. Bringing in a defensive coordinator that frankly hasn't even proven himself as a top defensive coordinator to be your head coach is just signaling to me that the Bills ownership is going to continue to not give a #@#@ so why should I?
Dr. Fong Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 No one can guarantee what any coach can do, Cowher included. But at least Frazier is consider one of the up-and-comers. And if reports of his OC and DC are accurate he is bringing some quality assistants with him. Look at it this way. If we don't hire Cowher, do you want some guy like Fassell or Haslett who has a "name?" It's that or hold your breath all season. PTR What confuses me about your post is you blast people for wanting a "Name" for head coach. Then you say "At least Frazier is considered one of the up-and-comers." So which is it, are we supposed to not look for a "Name" at head coach or are we supposed to be impressed because some people in the media think Frazier is a top candidate?
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 What confuses me about your post is you blast people for wanting a "Name" for head coach. Then you say "At least Frazier is considered one of the up-and-comers." So which is it, are we supposed to not look for a "Name" at head coach or are we supposed to be impressed because some people in the media think Frazier is a top candidate? I do not see any conflict between the two views as a Name for HC and an up and comer are two different things. Up and Comer- A co-ordinator who has produced a good record in his area of responsibility (thus gaining the respect of those who follow the sport), but most important when you as a GM talk to him, look him in the eye, and shake his hand you make the judgment that this co-ordinator has the right stuff to lead the team to an SB victory. An up and comer by definition has not done it yet. For the Bills it all comes down to whether Nix can make a correct judgment or not and if we take him and Nix is right whether the dumb luck of what happens allows the team led by the Up and Comer to win it all. A Name- An HC who has won the SB before and earned a name for himself by leading a team to the ultimate win. I don't think it make sense to get too caught up here in concluding that PTR or anyone is arguing that the choice is between an HC candidate who has no respect and an HC candidate who does. Both the up and comer and the Name have the respect of this knowlegable about the NFL for their differing accomplishments. The irony here though is that though the Name has proven he knows how to win the SB, there is actually no HC who has won the SB with different teams, The choice of an HC like a Cowher or a Billick is likely a choice that will gain us a playoff spot, but there is no case in NFL history where this has been a strategy which won it all. Its a difficult thing to figure out whether a Leslie Frazier will turn out to be an HC like a hot co-ordinator who wins the SB (or even like a Marv Levy or a Belicheat who flat out sucked in his previous job as an HC but went on to glory) or will be a dud. For me Frazier having stud talent is not a disqualifier at all for judging him to be the man for us. It really comes down to whether he is a true leader of a team or not and that judgment can not be made by simply looking at stats (I am a big stat hound) but really by assessing the quality of the man as a leader of men.
Heels20X6 Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Since 1972 the year I was born. My first fight in school was because I brought a Bills book bag to school one of the years they went 2-14. And yes if they hire Frazier I'm just done with this team. I don't see anything that he has done to make me want him as the coach of my favorite team. I'm tired of backing a team that isn't committed to winning. Bringing in a defensive coordinator that frankly hasn't even proven himself as a top defensive coordinator to be your head coach is just signaling to me that the Bills ownership is going to continue to not give a #@#@ so why should I? You have NO idea what you want do you? So if the Bills can't hire Bill Cowher or Brian Billick (because you know, they do have the ability to say no to the job) then the Bills should hire Jim Haslett, Herm Edwards, Jim Mora (Sr. or Jr.), Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini or give Dick Jauron another go because you so desperately want them to hire a "name" coach. And how has Frazier not proven himself? He's been the D coordinator of one of the top defenses for the last FOUR YEARS. What do you want him to do? Take the Las Vegas Locos defense and have him blank the Patriots??!? Would that "proove" it to you? If hiring Frazier or any other top coordinator (Russ Grimm, Ron Rivera) over a retread like Jim Haslett is enough to make you quit the Bills then see ya. Nobody will miss ya.
Dr. Fong Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 You have NO idea what you want do you? So if the Bills can't hire Bill Cowher or Brian Billick (because you know, they do have the ability to say no to the job) then the Bills should hire Jim Haslett, Herm Edwards, Jim Mora (Sr. or Jr.), Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini or give Dick Jauron another go because you so desperately want them to hire a "name" coach. And how has Frazier not proven himself? He's been the D coordinator of one of the top defenses for the last FOUR YEARS. What do you want him to do? Take the Las Vegas Locos defense and have him blank the Patriots??!? Would that "proove" it to you? If hiring Frazier or any other top coordinator (Russ Grimm, Ron Rivera) over a retread like Jim Haslett is enough to make you quit the Bills then see ya. Nobody will miss ya. He's only been the coordinator for three years. But that's beside the point. I just don't see what he has done to warrant consideration as a head coach candidate. If the Bills go with him it will be a signal to me that they are going the cheap route once again. They have once again gone with an underling at head coach that Ralph is comfortable won't challenge his absolute authority on the team in any way. And as for the other guys you mention, who the heck said anything about anyone else? I never said I wanted Haslett. I just said that I absolutely don't want Frazier. He has only three years experience at a coordinator level. No head coaching experience on the NFL level. I also believe that he's a product of looking good because of an abundance of talent on the Vikings defense. AND he runs the Tampa 2, which I despise. So add it all up and I don't want anything to do with the guy. Sorry.
Dr. Fong Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 I do not see any conflict between the two views as a Name for HC and an up and comer are two different things. The point is they're both decided by the media and fans. Just like they decide who is an acceptable "Name" coach, they decide who among the numerous coordinators around the league are the "up and comers." My point is if you deride people for relying on public opinion in wanting a "name" coach. Why do you then turn around and try to reassure people because Frazier is one of the coordinator du jour.
Recommended Posts