I'm Glad Bills Fired John Allaire, strength and conditioning coach

[JDHILL]

perhaps i over stated my case, this is an internet forum, but i stand by my contention that that type of training is dangerous for most people. here's some studies for you to look up:

 

H.J. Wu "Effects of 24 Ultra-Marathon on Biochemical and Hematological Parameters"

 

M.J Warhol "Skeletal Muscle Injury and Repair in Marathan Runners After Competition"

 

J.A. Neviackas "Renal Function Anormalities Induced by Marathan Running"

 

M.K. Fagerhol "Increase in Plasma CalProtection During Long-Distance Running"

 

As for taking comfort that NFL S&C don't agree with me on this, I couldn't disagree more. These people are herd followers that simply promote the party lines of over training that has been jammed down our throats for years. They also have an economic interest in making their jobs as valuable as possible by increasing the time they spend with players. In that sense they're no different than Nike having an incentive to get you to train to the max to buy more sneakers. What are they going to say?: "basically what your players need during the season in most cases, is no training whatsoever. Just have them rest as much as possible so they can recover from the extreme demands on the body of football. OK, can I have my $10 now?"

 

taking comfort in the consensus of NFL S&C coaches is analogous to taking comfort 3 years ago in wall street brokers telling everyone they should buy subprime mortgage securities.

Question.... Are you a long distance runner and have you read all of the studies that you just cited? You are kind of comparing apples to oranges b/c there are too may different variables when assessing football related injuries to running related injuries.

[truth on hold]

let's go off the marathon thing and get back on point, which is identifying the source of the bills high injury level. nix is right, we cant be competitive like this no matter what coach or players we have.

 

marathon was tossed out well past the initial post as a response to a guy trumpeting the merits of intense multi-dimensional training. i guess iron man would have been a better analogy. and those guys have plenty of issues too.

 

anyway, back to bills football .....

[blzrul]

I don't have the answer but it surely seems that a few teams in the NFL have TONS of injuries, constantly. That's not bad luck when it happens annually. There's something going on; either the coaching staff is running these guys to pieces during the week, or they're not properly conditioning them to withstand the hits. It's just too much of a coincidence that every year the Bills are cobbling together a team based on who's not dead yet.

[truth on hold]

Stretching is the application of force on a muscle at the extremes of its range of motion. Now what most people confuse stretching for is actually what is referred to as “passive insufficiency.” And if you watch most people that are doing a “hurdler’s stretch,” for instance, you get a “tugging” sensation in the hamstring muscle but this is not really true stretching. You’re just placing that muscle in a very extended position where it cannot actively contract because the opposing musculature is placed in a position of full contraction. And that produces a sensation of tugging that most people mistake as “stretching.” If you watch people stretch their lats – they’ll raise their arm over their head and bend to one side – it produces a stretching sensation, but you’re not actually stretching the lat. What you’re doing is externally rotating the scapula, so that the point of the shoulder blade is digging into the belly of the latissimus muscle and producing a sensation of pulling or tugging, which is mistaken as stretching. But it’s not stretching – you’re just taking a pointy bony prominence and pushing it into the belly of the muscle.

[Thurman#1]

the common theme of all those articles is the negative effect of the marathon on the individuals body, and how long it took to recover. if one were to train again during the recovery period, they'd be doing serious harm to their bodies ... JUST LIKE a football player that trains BETWEEN games.

 

as for my individual experience i'll share one with you. i have a sibling of comparable age, size and same sex. historically he was a better athlete than i am. however he bought into the whole cardio-aerobic training hype years ago and has religiously been doing several routines on a weekly basis. i, on the other hand, jogged for maybe a year or two and then stopped about 10 years ago because my intuition told me this was hurting, not only my joints but also my endurance, the very thing it was supposed to help most. my only training activity has been weights, mostly nautilus machines. (as it turns out too much, but less excessive than most fitness types.)

 

anyway years later im visibly more muscled than he is, stronger (he looks frail) and, what would surprise most people, my endurance is far greater. im also far less susceptible to illness. we went hiking recently and he needed to stop all the time ... me almost never. that supports my point that cardio systems support muscles, and rise and fall with muscle density. working on cardio has it ass backwards, it actually shrinks muscles and makes a weaker cardio system!!! also, after muscles are worked they need a much longer recovery period than nearly everyone realizes.

 

anyway, what do you think the most probable cause(s) of the bills excessive injuries has been?

 

 

Joe, what do I think the most probable cause of the Bills excessive injuries has been? I wish I knew, honestly.

 

You'd have to be in the weight rooms to know what they're doing, so I really can't say. I wonder if they're doing simple stuff like walking on the side of their feet, insides and outsides, the old ankle-stabilizing exercise that is a classic. Bottom line, I don't know exactly what they're not doing, hey, I don't even know what they are doing.

 

But my feeling is that I don't have to. When you look at injury rates over three years and find they're among the highest in the league and in club history year after year, you know there's something wrong. Look at the Bears over the same period, and they have much fewer injuries, even though they run the same "small fast guy" defensive scheme that we do.

 

Bottom line, when you have a recurring problem, you get rid of the cause of that problem, even if you can't figure out what the guy is doing exactly to cause the problem. Allaire is responsible, and now Allaire is gone. Great. Now, the hiring of the next strength coach is absolutely crucial.

[Thurman#1]

You guys are all just talking muscles and collisions, there is more to it then that.

 

There is overall diet and exercise, Bills players under Rusty Jones could go to Miami in the summer heat, and out perform the Dolphins. Tell me how many Bills O linemen in today's game look like bloated warthogs and came to camp completely out of shape and stayed that way.

 

I recall Jauron cut Langston Walker because he couldn't get to the line fast enough for the no huddle, Bills O linemen running the K gun had no problems because they were in the proper shape.

Rusty Jones used to allow a certain amount of body fat on each player depending on what position they played.

 

Pregame warm ups also can help keep players from injuries, players need to loosen up properly before a game.

 

Proper coaching technique also helps, being trained on how to perform a tackle and properly execute play for your position can help eliminate injuries.

 

Then there is equipment, improper shoes on certain fields can cause problems. The mouth guards the Patriots use are state of the art and the result is less concussions.

 

When your team is being led by a moron it permeates throughout the team, Jauron was a moron in so many areas.

 

 

You're right on, Rabbit, even stuff that doesn't obviously seem to be related can make a difference.

 

They need to get everyone wearing the helmet Fitz wears for one thing, mouth guards for another, stretching for another (though I don't know whether they already do enough of that), and so on.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

BTW, Dallas has ZERO players on injured reserve.

[Thurman#1]

BTW, Dallas has ZERO players on injured reserve.

 

 

 

Two, actually, Stephen Hodge and Brandon Williams. But that still makes a heck of a contrast to the 21 on the Bills list. Healthy teams have a MUCH better chance of being better.

[Nevergiveup]

Two, actually, Stephen Hodge and Brandon Williams. But that still makes a heck of a contrast to the 21 on the Bills list. Healthy teams have a MUCH better chance of being better.

 

 

Where did the Bears rate this year in games lost to injury? I don't think you will like the answer to that question.

 

Why have quite a few asst. coaches that many thought were not good here, go on to succeed elsewhere?

 

There are good coaches that have not succeded for any number of reasons and bad coaches that are still in the league. You blind indictment of Allaire is embarrassing. The coaching staff should have been removed becasue the ultimate benchmark is success. But to pin it specifically on Allaire working in a position where many of the problems are out of your control is ridiculous. I am sure Wes Welker or Bill Bellichek would be interested in your injury prevention theories.

[truth on hold]

Where did the Bears rate this year in games lost to injury? I don't think you will like the answer to that question.

 

Why have quite a few asst. coaches that many thought were not good here, go on to succeed elsewhere?

 

There are good coaches that have not succeded for any number of reasons and bad coaches that are still in the league. You blind indictment of Allaire is embarrassing. The coaching staff should have been removed becasue the ultimate benchmark is success. But to pin it specifically on Allaire working in a position where many of the problems are out of your control is ridiculous. I am sure Wes Welker or Bill Bellichek would be interested in your injury prevention theories.

im sure bellichek would be too, because he's a smart guy. ive already said im not 100% certain this ones on Allaire, but given he's the strength and conditioning coach, you have to start there. if your special teams suck, you start with st coach; offense sucks, start with oc, etc etc. when you have a record 21 guys on IR and it's been going on for years, you have to get to the bottom of it. thankfully Nix recognizes there's a problem

[Thurman#1]

Where did the Bears rate this year in games lost to injury? I don't think you will like the answer to that question.

 

Why have quite a few asst. coaches that many thought were not good here, go on to succeed elsewhere?

 

There are good coaches that have not succeded for any number of reasons and bad coaches that are still in the league. You blind indictment of Allaire is embarrassing. The coaching staff should have been removed becasue the ultimate benchmark is success. But to pin it specifically on Allaire working in a position where many of the problems are out of your control is ridiculous. I am sure Wes Welker or Bill Bellichek would be interested in your injury prevention theories.

 

 

OK, where did they rate? I'd love to see this, give me a website. And if possible, give me the figures for the last three years.

 

One year can possibly be luck, which is why I wasn't willing to blame the S&C staff in 2007 when we set a new record for IR players. But three lousy years in a row, including a new record and then breaking that record yet again ... isn't luck anymore.

 

I know the Bears only had eight guys on IR, compared to 21 for the Bills.

 

My "blind" assessment of Allaire is anything but blind. Again, look at the figures. Three years in a row isn't coincidence. "The ultimate benchmark is success," you say. Exactly. And success for the S&C staff involves, as perhaps the most important goal, minimizing injuries. Allaire and his staff have failed at that. Allaire is gone, so this won't be a problem anymore, luckily.

[Nevergiveup]

OK, where did they rate? I'd love to see this, give me a website. And if possible, give me the figures for the last three years.

 

One year can possibly be luck, which is why I wasn't willing to blame the S&C staff in 2007 when we set a new record for IR players. But three lousy years in a row, including a new record and then breaking that record yet again ... isn't luck anymore.

 

I know the Bears only had eight guys on IR, compared to 21 for the Bills.

 

My "blind" assessment of Allaire is anything but blind. Again, look at the figures. Three years in a row isn't coincidence. "The ultimate benchmark is success," you say. Exactly. And success for the S&C staff involves, as perhaps the most important goal, minimizing injuries. Allaire and his staff have failed at that. Allaire is gone, so this won't be a problem anymore, luckily.

 

I am not interested in looking up statistics for you. Just trying to provide some actual info as opposed to your blind speculation you like to use.. The HC had much more to do with this entire debacle than Allaire ever could.

 

You also think Modrak had something to do with hiring Nix last year. You have no idea.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Don't know why everybody loves Rusty Jones... He has the same problem in Chicago... Him and Allaire share the Spirngfield College connection and are proteges.

 

 

 

IMO, Rusty is just as bad... People just like to have fond memories.

[Nevergiveup]

Don't know why everybody loves Rusty Jones... He has the same problem in Chicago... Him and Allaire share the Spirngfield College connection and are proteges..

 

IMO, Rusty is just as bad... People just like to have fond memories.

 

Exactly exiled. If they bothered to look, they would see that the Colts are top 3 in games lost as well. Another Rusty protoge'. But I guess since they made the playoffs, their guy must be a good coach.

 

 

.

[Thurman#1]

I am not interested in looking up statistics for you. Just trying to provide some actual info as opposed to your blind speculation you like to use.. The HC had much more to do with this entire debacle than Allaire ever could.

 

You also think Modrak had something to do with hiring Nix last year. You have no idea.

 

 

Ah, you're not interested in looking up statistics for me. Yet you said that the Bears lost more games to injury but aren't willing to back it up.

 

In other words, you're full of crap. Got it.

[Thurman#1]

Don't know why everybody loves Rusty Jones... He has the same problem in Chicago... Him and Allaire share the Spirngfield College connection and are proteges.

 

 

 

IMO, Rusty is just as bad... People just like to have fond memories.

 

 

 

The Bears, over the last three years, have had almost 40% fewer guys on IR. Rusty simply has a better record.

[Thurman#1]

Exactly exiled. If they bothered to look, they would see that the Colts are top 3 in games lost as well. Another Rusty protoge'. But I guess since they made the playoffs, their guy must be a good coach.

 

 

.

 

 

 

LINK?

 

People say a lot of stuff. But it means nothing unless it's a fact.

 

Seriously, I'm very willing to hear new facts, if they're backed up. I spent 45 minutes yesterday on the net looking for anywhere where there was a listing of games missed due to injury. I thought I would find it easily, but it's not easily available. Again, if you have facts, I'd love to see them. If you just want to throw stuff against the wall to find out if it sticks, don't expect people to pay any attention.

 

LINK?

[thewildrabbit]

Don't know why everybody loves Rusty Jones... He has the same problem in Chicago... Him and Allaire share the Spirngfield College connection and are proteges.

 

 

 

IMO, Rusty is just as bad... People just like to have fond memories.

The Bills in the 90's used to have their share of problems with fat overweight players, some O linemen were not even allowed to practice until they met their weight conditions, unlike today's players who can't make it to the line fast enough and then are cut.

 

 

 

 

If the Dallas Cowboys only had two players on IR this year it would be in the Bills best interest to find out what they are doing differently, and who is coaching them. Joe Juraszek Strength and Conditioning

[Thurman#1]

If the Dallas Cowboys only had two players on IR this year it would be in the Bills best interest to find out what they are doing differently, and who is coaching them. Joe Juraszek Strength and Conditioning

 

 

I agree, he looks great from that write-up, but I want to see his record over three or four years.

 

I like the Cards guy someone mentioned earlier in this thread. Let me go get it ... here it is:

 

 

Hire this guy... http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/...-john-lott.html

 

 

This guy looks great, and also looks available.

[Thurman#1]

I am not interested in looking up statistics for you. Just trying to provide some actual info as opposed to your blind speculation you like to use.. The HC had much more to do with this entire debacle than Allaire ever could.

 

You also think Modrak had something to do with hiring Nix last year. You have no idea.

 

 

 

Yeah, I do think Modrak had something to do with hiring Nix last year. If I have no idea, then neither does the Buffalo News.

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/584901.html

 

The relevant quote is "Tom Modrak, Bills vice president of college scouting, spent a couple months wooing Nix to make a return to the Bills’ organization. Nix agreed in late January."

 

Gosh, how could I ever have thought that Modrak had something to do wtih hiring Nix last year? What was I thinking?