I'm Glad Bills Fired John Allaire, strength and conditioning coach

[Nevergiveup]

"high motor guys"

 

So JT Allaire was overworking the Bills high motor players? I am so glad you figured this all out. Unbelievable.

[Red]

I have a strong suspicion he is over working the players, and it accounts for the unusually high injury level. I've been reading up a lot on the recent medical observations of fitness and it has me convinced the public is sold on over training. Part of this is ignorance and part of it is manufacturers trying to get us to buy more products, and gym owners trying to get us to buy memberships.

 

Basically our bodies need a lot more recovery time than people think. Football is the most demanding sport out there ... playing a game is something akin to several 30 mph car crashes. Basically football players shouldn't do any kind of physical conditioning during the season, as they need as much time to recover as possible from the games. Physical conditioning during the season just wears down muscles and joints, and makes players far more susceptible to injuries. Believe it or not, they'd be far better off being couch potatoes between games.

 

I am really hoping the new strength and conditioning coach shares this view ... because stats don't lie and the Bills players have consistently suffered a disproportionate amount of injuries for several seasons.

 

 

I don't know.

 

With a name like 'Joe the 6 pack' condoning rest is probably an oxymoron.

 

It all depends on the type of training you are speaking of. Diet, anabolic drug use, etc all can impact the recovery time. I'm not sure what you are referencing as the 'public being sold on overtraining'. Can you be more specific?

 

On a side note, I am indeed hoping that Allaire was included in the 'relieving of duties' that happened today. We need a clean sweep, and though I am not with you on your overtraining idea, it is clear that the sheer volume of injuries suffered within the past 3 seasons and the number of players on IR truly points to the training staff.

 

As Buddy said, having someone get drafted it takes about 8 games for them to become sophomores. The players should be getting better, and growing into their positions, not constantly getting hurt.

 

It's exciting.

 

I think Guy needs to be next.

[truth on hold]

So JT Allaire was overworking the Bills high motor players? I am so glad you figured this all out. Unbelievable.

it may have been the case they were trying to make everyone a "high motor guy" and over training them. thats what im saying. that was a core belief of theirs ... get a bunch of guys out there going flat out all the time and outwork the other team. problem is playing a single game wears down the body dramatically and everyone needs a lot of time to recover ... in many cases a week isnt even enough to fully recover. giving them a day and then tossing them back into intense workouts (whatever the format) wears them down and weakens them further.

[Trent is Unstoppable]

I have a strong suspicion he is over working the players, and it accounts for the unusually high injury level. I've been reading up a lot on the recent medical observations of fitness and it has me convinced the public is sold on over training. Part of this is ignorance and part of it is manufacturers trying to get us to buy more products, and gym owners trying to get us to buy memberships.

 

Basically our bodies need a lot more recovery time than people think. Football is the most demanding sport out there ... playing a game is something akin to several 30 mph car crashes. Basically football players shouldn't do any kind of physical conditioning during the season, as they need as much time to recover as possible from the games. Physical conditioning during the season just wears down muscles and joints, and makes players far more susceptible to injuries. Believe it or not, they'd be far better off being couch potatoes between games.

 

I am really hoping the new strength and conditioning coach shares this view ... because stats don't lie and the Bills players have consistently suffered a disproportionate amount of injuries for several seasons.

John Allaire is the best in the business. Sad to see him go.

 

Buffalo has had a lot of injuries, but it is magnified due to lack of depth.

[Kiwi Bills fan]

I remember the number of injuries increasing when Wade Philips left and especially when Rusty Jones left. The Bills seemed to always be injured. I also have a vague memory of someone telling me that all strength and conditioning coaches are created equal.

 

On the other hand, I think the whole undersided defense is also part of the problem. Buddy Nix is right on that.

 

I could be wrong here, but I could've sworn that our injury bug actually started in Rusty's last season or two. Can anyone confirm this?

[truth on hold]

I don't know.

 

With a name like 'Joe the 6 pack' condoning rest is probably an oxymoron.

 

It all depends on the type of training you are speaking of. Diet, anabolic drug use, etc all can impact the recovery time. I'm not sure what you are referencing as the 'public being sold on overtraining'. Can you be more specific?

On a side note, I am indeed hoping that Allaire was included in the 'relieving of duties' that happened today. We need a clean sweep, and though I am not with you on your overtraining idea, it is clear that the sheer volume of injuries suffered within the past 3 seasons and the number of players on IR truly points to the training staff.

 

As Buddy said, having someone get drafted it takes about 8 games for them to become sophomores. The players should be getting better, and growing into their positions, not constantly getting hurt.

 

It's exciting.

 

I think Guy needs to be next.

sure can:

 

- aerobics craze

- sneaker manufacturers promoting "cross training" so people could train more often and buy more sneakers

- gyms making people feel like they were falling behind if they weren't working out nearly every day so they could sell memberships, with the even more absurd notion you could "burn" off excessive eating at the gym

- body builders sticking their face on protein shakes, supplements, exercise equipment and other products as if thats how they got big. when in reality they are genetic freaks with a one in a hundred thousand chance of looking that way ... i know plenty of people who work as much as body builders that will never look like a body builder.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

SO how did the hill work out for Singletary and the 49ers?

[truth on hold]

SO how did the hill work out for Singletary and the 49ers?

speaking of the 9ers, remember roger craig and the workout freak he was? running up stairs all the time with ankle weights and things?

 

that dude burned out real fast.

 

compare him to marcus allen who took it easy, shared a lot of playing time and saw most action in goal line situations. he had one of the longest, most productive careers of any nfl back in history. guy ran like a gazelle well into his mid 30's

[Red]

sure can:

 

- aerobics craze

- sneaker manufacturers promoting "cross training" so people could train more often and buy more sneakers

- gyms making people feel like they were falling behind if they weren't working out nearly every day so they could sell memberships, with the even more absurd notion you could "burn" off excessive eating at the gym

- body builders sticking their face on protein shakes, supplements, exercise equipment and other products as if thats how they got big. when in reality they are genetic freaks with a one in a hundred thousand chance of looking that way ... i know plenty of people who work as much as body builders that will never look like a body builder.

 

Aerobics craze?

 

Football, by its nature of short, burst type of activities is an ANaerobic game. Building aerobic endurance can raise the threshold for anaerobic endurance (as the body becomes more proficient at removing lactic acid from the muscles replacing it with oxygenated blood). Using aerobics can not only help with warmups, but may also be beneficial to becoming better players.

 

I don't get the cross training gripe. This has been around for a couple of decades now.

 

You can burn off excessive eating at the gym. Bodyfat can be looked at as nothing more than stored fuel. At its simplest, to use that stored fuel there must be a deficit with the amount of fuel coming in and the amount going out. Again, these principles have been around for several decades.

 

Bodybuilders are walking pharmacy labs. There is nothing freaky about taking steroids, growth hormones, insulin, appetite drivers, etc more so than any normal mortal could either endure or desire to even experiment with. Not to mention the legal ramifications. Or if it is even real stuff.

 

Football players should also not be training like bodybuilders. They are on completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of what goals and objectives they are seeking. A football player needs to train for maximum explosiveness and power. A bodybuilder trains for muscle size. Totally different.

[Red]

speaking of the 9ers, remember roger craig and the workout freak he was? running up stairs all the time with ankle weights and things?

 

that dude burned out real fast.

 

compare him to marcus allen who took it easy, shared a lot of playing time and saw most action in goal line situations. he had one of the longest, most productive careers of any nfl back in history. guy ran like a gazelle well into his mid 30's

 

C'mon.

 

The man doth protest too much.

 

Marcus Allen 'took it easy'?

 

Are you serious?

 

How, exactly, did Allen 'take it easy'?

 

I'm sure if he heard you say that he'd agree with that statement, too.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

I have a strong suspicion he is over working the players, and it accounts for the unusually high injury level. I've been reading up a lot on the recent medical observations of fitness and it has me convinced the public is sold on over training. Part of this is ignorance and part of it is manufacturers trying to get us to buy more products, and gym owners trying to get us to buy memberships.

 

Basically our bodies need a lot more recovery time than people think. Football is the most demanding sport out there ... playing a game is something akin to several 30 mph car crashes. Basically football players shouldn't do any kind of physical conditioning during the season, as they need as much time to recover as possible from the games. Physical conditioning during the season just wears down muscles and joints, and makes players far more susceptible to injuries. Believe it or not, they'd be far better off being couch potatoes between games.

 

I am really hoping the new strength and conditioning coach shares this view ... because stats don't lie and the Bills players have consistently suffered a disproportionate amount of injuries for several seasons.

ok, maybe, but there's probably another equally strong argument that the sport requires year-round conditioning and diet phases or whatever nutritionists call them, i.e preseason, regular season, off season, etc. types of guidelines. It can't be start two weeks before the OTAs until January, repeat.

 

This seems to be the kind of thing that could be researched with some accuracy. Bring a team of experts that review the former diet, strength training, warm ups, etc. etc and make a recommendation or 20.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

speaking of the 9ers, remember Jerry Rice and the workout freak he was? he had the longest, most productive career of any nfl receiver in history. guy ran like a gazelle into his 40's

fixed it for you

[truth on hold]

fixed it for you

well thats true, but he was a WR that barely took the pounding a RB takes. why are most RBs burned out by the time their 30? in most other fields 30 is a very young person. a 30 yr rb is getting ready for the glue factory

[truth on hold]

Aerobics craze?

 

Football, by its nature of short, burst type of activities is an ANaerobic game. Building aerobic endurance can raise the threshold for anaerobic endurance (as the body becomes more proficient at removing lactic acid from the muscles replacing it with oxygenated blood). Using aerobics can not only help with warmups, but may also be beneficial to becoming better players.

 

I don't get the cross training gripe. This has been around for a couple of decades now.

 

You can burn off excessive eating at the gym. Bodyfat can be looked at as nothing more than stored fuel. At its simplest, to use that stored fuel there must be a deficit with the amount of fuel coming in and the amount going out. Again, these principles have been around for several decades.

 

Bodybuilders are walking pharmacy labs. There is nothing freaky about taking steroids, growth hormones, insulin, appetite drivers, etc more so than any normal mortal could either endure or desire to even experiment with. Not to mention the legal ramifications. Or if it is even real stuff.

 

Football players should also not be training like bodybuilders. They are on completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of what goals and objectives they are seeking. A football player needs to train for maximum explosiveness and power. A bodybuilder trains for muscle size. Totally different.

well that really takes my answer out of context but ill answer what i think the important parts are anyway.

 

aerobics is what i have the biggest problem with. our aerobic system is there to support our muscles, brain and organs. out of those 3 all we can really build are muscles. aerobic "health" rises and falls with the muscle system it supports. thinking you should build the aerobics system independantly has it ass backwards. amplyfiying the mistake is that aerobic training wears down muscles and actually results in a weaker system!! people think they get better overall health because they may see some increase in performance of a specific activity BUT its only because their bodies adapted to that acivity. try something else and many times they actually got worse...ie running does nothing for biking.

 

as for burning fat thats a huge misconception. a pound of fat has 3500 calories!!!!! to lose 10lbs you need to run a marathon every day for 2 weeks while limiting your diet. which of course would tax your system to the extent youd seriously risk death.

 

many natural body builders get huge too ...its genetics. as i said i know several people who train just as hard and they have zero chance of developing a 60" well muscled chest

[Red]

well thats true, but he was a WR that barely took the pounding a RB takes. why are most RBs burned out by the time their 30? in most other fields 30 is a very young person. a 30 yr rb is getting ready for the glue factory

 

 

Joe, you answered your own question, bud.

 

A WR plays on an island most of the time with the CB and safeties. Sometimes, a WR may be asked to catch a ball over the middle of the field, in LB land. That does not happen too often. Why? It's a great way to kill your WR's. LB's are by the nature of their position bigger than the WR's.

 

RB's are constantly getting hit by defensive players from various positions, and at various levels. Defensive linemen and linebackers are probably the 2 biggest reasons why RB's don't last too long.

 

Which would you prefer: to run around like a gazelle all day, sprinting and leaping through the air, or running into a brick wall at full speed, while you hope to find an opening to daylight?

[stevewin]

I'm surprised more isn't made of injury risk in NFL due to overdeveloped musculature ("some" unnatural).....

[truth on hold]

Joe, you answered your own question, bud.

 

A WR plays on an island most of the time with the CB and safeties. Sometimes, a WR may be asked to catch a ball over the middle of the field, in LB land. That does not happen too often. Why? It's a great way to kill your WR's. LB's are by the nature of their position bigger than the WR's.

 

RB's are constantly getting hit by defensive players from various positions, and at various levels. Defensive linemen and linebackers are probably the 2 biggest reasons why RB's don't last too long.

 

Which would you prefer: to run around like a gazelle all day, sprinting and leaping through the air, or running into a brick wall at full speed, while you hope to find an opening to daylight?

i agree, i did it to explain craigs shortened career over rices. craig took a huge pounding as an rb, and with a similar intensity workout to rices he burned out 2x as fast. no time for his body to recover from all that banging with LBs and DLs

[Red]

well that really takes my answer out of context but ill answer what i think the important parts are anyway.

 

aerobics is what i have the biggest problem with. our aerobic system is there to support our muscles, brain and organs. out of those 3 all we can really build are muscles. aerobic "health" rises and falls with the muscle system it supports. thinking you should build the aerobics system independantly has it ass backwards. amplyfiying the mistake is that aerobic training wears down muscles and actually results in a weaker system!! people think they get better overall health because they may see some increase in performance of a specific activity BUT its only because their bodies adapted to that acivity. try something else and many times they actually got worse...ie running does nothing for biking.

 

as for burning fat thats a huge misconception. a pound of fat has 3500 calories!!!!! to lose 10lbs you need to run a marathon every day for 2 weeks while limiting your diet. which of course would tax your system to the extent youd seriously risk death.

 

many natural body builders get huge too ...its genetics. as i said i know several people who train just as hard and they have zero chance of developing a 60" well muscled chest

 

Joe, I think you are well intentioned, but not well versed.

 

I'm completing my Masters in Phys Ed, and have a Bachelors in Exercise Phys and Nutrition. Please, I appreciate your opinion, but its not backed in science, man.

 

On its surface, you are right: ultimately you can't train one energy system entirely without having an effect on another (aerobic, anaerobic, atp/pc). But that is speaking incredibly generally.

 

In reality, a sensible training program can AND DOES specialize on 1 area (aerobic, anaerobic, etc), in an effort to maximize the body's response to training in anticipation of developing it for the event. You actually answer your own doubt by stating that 'running does nothing for biking' (which is also wrong, BTW). Specializing in football training for a football player is smart, but breaking that down further to a positional level is smartest. For example, why should anybody care how fast an offensive lineman can run the 40 yard dash? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the ability to perform on the field, as an offensive lineman operates for short burst of explosive time within a small, 10-yard window. Training in 10-yard dashes would be more effective and position specific.

 

As far as your fat burning theory, keep in mind that you are neglecting 1 key component in your marathon analogy: TIME. One should not be racing to lose weight, ever. The goal is always something like .5-1 lbs per week, as anything more is most likely water and some muscle. By lowering the caloric intake and increasing the caloric expense OVER TIME, it does work. Magazines, supplement and drug manufacturers, and even medical doctors may try and make it more difficult than it really is, as you mentioned earlier, because they are usually attempting to sell something. But you can't patent nature.

 

I was never really a subscriber into the 'genetic' thing. How does one know when they have reached their genetic 'potential'? Should they just stop, at that mythical place then, as any further training will only serve to be the equivalent of running in mud? How does one find their genetic 'potential'? To me, the genetics argument is an argument made by losers and people trying to sell you something.

[Red]

I'm surprised more isn't made of injury risk in NFL due to overdeveloped musculature ("some" unnatural).....

 

Steve, I usually bring this up and then get quickly shot down.

 

I can remember high school health class when the topic of anabolic steroids came up. Some of the most basic facts were that the muscle grows because of the drugs, but the surrounding connective tissue does not- or alteast not in ratio with the increase in muscle mass.

 

This, in turn, leads to a greater susceptibility of muscle tears, tendon tears, etc.

 

How many tricep, bicep, pectoral tears have we had over the past decade or so? How many achilles tendon tears?

 

I don't know if anyone keeps stats on those types of things, but I would love to compare those types of connective tissue injuries from say the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's to the late 90's and the '00's.

 

Another thing I always say is that the increased bodyweights brought on by increased anabolic drug use is subject to the laws of physics: that being it is a lot harder to stop those bodies once they get movin'. Those forces, in turn, have to get transferred somewhere.

[truth on hold]

Joe, I think you are well intentioned, but not well versed.

 

I'm completing my Masters in Phys Ed, and have a Bachelors in Exercise Phys and Nutrition. Please, I appreciate your opinion, but its not backed in science, man.

 

On its surface, you are right: ultimately you can't train one energy system entirely without having an effect on another (aerobic, anaerobic, atp/pc). But that is speaking incredibly generally.

 

In reality, a sensible training program can AND DOES specialize on 1 area (aerobic, anaerobic, etc), in an effort to maximize the body's response to training in anticipation of developing it for the event. You actually answer your own doubt by stating that 'running does nothing for biking' (which is also wrong, BTW). Specializing in football training for a football player is smart, but breaking that down further to a positional level is smartest. For example, why should anybody care how fast an offensive lineman can run the 40 yard dash? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the ability to perform on the field, as an offensive lineman operates for short burst of explosive time within a small, 10-yard window. Training in 10-yard dashes would be more effective and position specific.

 

As far as your fat burning theory, keep in mind that you are neglecting 1 key component in your marathon analogy: TIME. One should not be racing to lose weight, ever. The goal is always something like .5-1 lbs per week, as anything more is most likely water and some muscle. By lowering the caloric intake and increasing the caloric expense OVER TIME, it does work. Magazines, supplement and drug manufacturers, and even medical doctors may try and make it more difficult than it really is, as you mentioned earlier, because they are usually attempting to sell something. But you can't patent nature.

 

I was never really a subscriber into the 'genetic' thing. How does one know when they have reached their genetic 'potential'? Should they just stop, at that mythical place then, as any further training will only serve to be the equivalent of running in mud? How does one find their genetic 'potential'? To me, the genetics argument is an argument made by losers and people trying to sell you something.

i appreciate your background and opinion and ultimately looking to have an informed discussion as we're discussing health, a very important matter. i completely agree that an athlete's training should reflect the specific task(s) he needs to accomplish. that should also be accompanied by an overall health and fitness program (which we all need), which i strongly believe in most cases is way over the top and counterproductive.

 

as far as genetics id say finding your limit is rather simple ... you perform a sound program and at some point you reach your strength, growth and endurance potential. at that point you need to keep training or your improvements will reverse... your body will do what you tell it to do PROVIDED it's within its limitations