K-9 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Aaron Schobel is what he is- a very good football player, but in order for him to be a difference maker- and by that, I mean someone who opposiing teams scheme against, he needs to have a hall of fame type player opposite him. I would package him with a couple other players- maybe including Evans and/or Lynch with our top pick and try to move up to get Suh. Ndamukong Suh is a hall of fame caliber player that you can build around. All good players need other good players around them to be great but what a defensive end needs more than anything is to play with a lead more often than not. When offenses are one dimensional it's amazing how good defenses can be. I'll go out on a limb and suggest Schobel hasn't played much with a lead in his career. Add in the lack of another quality rush threat like you said and it's amazing that he's compiled the stats that he has. GO BILLS!!!
pBills Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I would love to see Schobel stay with the Bills, yet it all depends on who comes in as coach and what changes are made. I would love to see him taste some sort of victory while playing with the Bills.
seadog Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Good for him. Did he make any difference? No. He's not a difference maker. He's a decent/above average player. Did it occur to you that those three sacks did nothing to rattle their offense? Well then I guess the Bill's have only had one difference maker in their history, his name being Bruce Smith.
Rico Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 What Bills game this millennium has really counted? And the Schobel bashing confounds me too. I never understood the Lee Evans haters either2004 season, Week 17, Steelers at Bills. Thanks, Drew.
BB-Gun Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 He's the best one to rag on. He is arguably the most over rated Bill. I doubt he will ever make 2 pro-bowls as Schobel. He make a few good plays he makes quite a few bad ones. For a 3 year vet I thought he would be able fend off blockers better. Take better angles on tackles and play much stronger at the point of attack. He has had 3 picks which is great but he is not a good cover LB. He is the quarterback of the 31 ranked run defense..... I hope the Bills can give Schobel some hope to come back, he still has some football in him. Let's see... Poz has 2 inexperienced scabs on either side of him, that he has to try to help out. He has a DT (Stroud) in front of him, that does not seem to be playing very hard. Stroud is often pushed out of plays with just one O-line man. I'm noticing Williams facing more double-team than Stroud. If anyone on defense that should be criticized is Stroud, not Pozlosky or Schoebel. If you paid attention, Poz always plays hard and makes many tackles around the scrimmage line.
VADC Bills Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Let's see... Poz has 2 inexperienced scabs on either side of him, that he has to try to help out. He has a DT (Stroud) in front of him, that does not seem to be playing very hard. Stroud is often pushed out of plays with just one O-line man. I'm noticing Williams facing more double-team than Stroud.If anyone on defense that should be criticized is Stroud, not Pozlosky or Schoebel. If you paid attention, Poz always plays hard and makes many tackles around the scrimmage line. Like I said he is the qb of the 31st ranked defense against the run and he plays like a scab as well. No one on this team is making many plays at the line of scrimmage...what defense are you looking at? Poz plays hard and more than often goes in the opposite direction of the play running himself out of the play..but you have to pay attention to see that. He is often dragged additional yardage at the point of impact...I guess you blame that on Stroud and the scabs. He has trouble getting off of the a block..and I am being kind. I think Poz is better suited for the OLB position a position he played until his senior year. From your assessment you are saying Poz would be better if he had better players around him. This is a very common Poz defense...From what I have seen good players make players around them better. How many times have you heard (Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, Cornelius Bennett...) would be better if he had better players around him. Never, they always made the players around them better. Poz obviously doesn't make the players around him better...If you paid attention you would realize mediocrity when you see it. Stroud and Schobel are on the down side of their careers but they do have probowl appearances..and some good football left in them but not at a probowl level. I am not holding my breath until Poz makes it to a probowl.
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Good for him. Did he make any difference? No. He's not a difference maker. He's a decent/above average player. Did it occur to you that those three sacks did nothing to rattle their offense? Ask yourself this: If he played on the Pats (and trust me, Belichick would *love* to have him), do you think he would have made some big plays in big games between 2001 and 2009? Call me a crazy optimist, but I suspect he would have. Overall context, man, overall context.
Adam Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Well then I guess the Bill's have only had one difference maker in their history, his name being Bruce Smith. We actually have had very few- Bruce, Thurman, Reed, Kelly, Ted Washington, Tom Sestak, Cornelius Bennett, OJ Simpson, Cookie Gilchrist and Byrd. I know I am missing a few, but we haven't had many. And saying that Schobel isn't a difference maker isn't a slap at his career- he's been a fine player for us- I put him in the Eric Moulds category. Very good, but not close to being on the bubble for the hall of fame.
murra Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 We actually have had very few- Bruce, Thurman, Reed, Kelly, Ted Washington, Tom Sestak, Cornelius Bennett, OJ Simpson, Cookie Gilchrist and Byrd. I know I am missing a few, but we haven't had many. And saying that Schobel isn't a difference maker isn't a slap at his career- he's been a fine player for us- I put him in the Eric Moulds category. Very good, but not close to being on the bubble for the hall of fame. Well put. He fits nicely in discussion next to Moulds. Like I said, Schobel is good, it's just silly to pretend like he's anything special. Good players are essential, and make up most the roster on good teams. Because we're so bad, and have been lately, we have no difference maker, and only one or two good players. That makes you guys inflate his value. A 3 sack performance is just a meaningless number in a big loss, sorry.
rpcolosi Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 well that makes 2 of us at least make it three. We owe it to him to try and trade him in the offseason if we don't somehow become competitive between now and august. the guy is a heck of a ball player. I've always said he reads the run better than probably any DE in teh game but never gets credit because its not a "sack." He's just a football smart player with crazy skills. Put him on those Giants teams the past 4-5 years and he easily is talked about like Kampan or Jared Allen. it also isn't shocking his best years came when Pat Williams, Sam Adams and now Marcus Stroud have been here... DTs make your DEs look a lot better.. is this too common sense? or are our FO people too stupid to realize these things... oh well...
BB-Gun Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Like I said he is the qb of the 31st ranked defense against the run and he plays like a scab as well. No one on this team is making many plays at the line of scrimmage...what defense are you looking at? Poz plays hard and more than often goes in the opposite direction of the play running himself out of the play..but you have to pay attention to see that. He is often dragged additional yardage at the point of impact...I guess you blame that on Stroud and the scabs. He has trouble getting off of the a block..and I am being kind. I think Poz is better suited for the OLB position a position he played until his senior year. From your assessment you are saying Poz would be better if he had better players around him. This is a very common Poz defense...From what I have seen good players make players around them better. How many times have you heard (Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, Cornelius Bennett...) would be better if he had better players around him. Never, they always made the players around them better. Poz obviously doesn't make the players around him better...If you paid attention you would realize mediocrity when you see it. Stroud and Schobel are on the down side of their careers but they do have probowl appearances..and some good football left in them but not at a probowl level. I am not holding my breath until Poz makes it to a probowl. I am not saying Poz will be a problowler, but he is a good middle linebacker. I think he would be a very good one someday. Bruce Smith, Jim Kelly, Cornelius Bennett did have better players around them. Ray Lewis has had good players around him. He told the Ravens he would continue to get to the probowl if they spent their 1st draft picks on big D-linemen. So they did, and so he did. I don't know of any LB that does not sometime goes backwards when trying to tackle, since the back has a full head of steam and he is coming from an angle, or standing still. I don't know what game you have been watching, but Poz has been making tackles at the line and getting picks. Plus, if you knew what our defensive philosophy is, you would better understand. Our D plays an aggressive run defense. They blitz the run with Poz. He picks a gap and shoots it immediately. Since his odds are 50/50, he would take himself out of the play sometimes. That is the nature of our defense. The safety is supposed to come up and cover behind him. So stop hating on Poz. He is a good player. Plus, he was NOT a 1st round pick.
swede316 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I'm gonna side with Schobel on this one...Who has he had to help him? The Bills have been pretty mediocre in his time...But he's stood out. Lot's of 1st round busts on the D-line. But he's always been a competeter. Is he Bruce Smith..No..But he's been productive...alot more than I can say about the other clowns over the past few years.
Bill from NYC Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Well put. He fits nicely in discussion next to Moulds. Like I said, Schobel is good, it's just silly to pretend like he's anything special. He is more than just good. So was Moulds. These guys were hampered by the players around them, and even the weather they played in wrt putting up numbers. Nobody is calling Schobel Bruce Smith, but he was well worthy of being a first round pick (he was a second rounder). Perhaps where we differ is in our definition of "good." Imo, Kyle Williams is good, and guys like Schobel and Moulds are VERY good. Jmo.
Snorom Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Don't want him retire.. just want him upgraded...
DaGimp Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Corrected. Some, of us have very much appreciated his play for the last 9 seasons. Yes, I just love all those great sacks that led them to so many Super Bowls. It's great when he has multiple sack games when they are out of the playoffs. I wish this could happen every year.
papazoid Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Schobel had a great game.....and there is no denying he has had a great career......but this is a what have you done for me lately game. most of his detractors, myself included, feel that his salary cap figure (approx $8-9 mil) does not match his recent productivity on the field week in and week out and especially going forward next year. my beef with him is his lack of strength or ability to simply bull rush his blocker. no doubt injuries and age have hindered his effectiveness of late, but he acknowledges himself that he questions his own desire and motivation......once someone starts talking about retirement, in their own mind, he partially already has.
frogger Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 I wish we had 11 Aaron Schobels on defense, he has been my favorite player to watch the last ten years. in order to keep him in Buffalo, the Bills need to hire a head coach that can bring the idea of winning back to buffalo. I think that he could be outstanding in a 3-4 as a OLB, which will make his career longer too.
Beebe's Kid Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 We actually have had very few- Bruce, Thurman, Reed, Kelly, Ted Washington, Tom Sestak, Cornelius Bennett, OJ Simpson, Cookie Gilchrist and Byrd. I know I am missing a few, but we haven't had many. And saying that Schobel isn't a difference maker isn't a slap at his career- he's been a fine player for us- I put him in the Eric Moulds category. Very good, but not close to being on the bubble for the hall of fame. Byrd? I don't think he is quite ready for this list just yet. I agree that he had a great year, or fraction of one, and look forward to seeing great things to come from him, but to put him on this list is a bit premature.
CountDorkula Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Lets defame the BEST player on this team the past 3 years, yea that makes sense. I dont get it, I would take him next year in a heartbeat. All this crap about the run game, i dont understand. How is it Schobel's fault when the RB is running right down the middle of are 2 DT's and through out linebackers. You find me a DE that can make those plays and i will stop supporting Schobel.
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