Major rebuilding project ahead for the Bills

[jahnyc]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I do think that the Bills have a major rebuilding job in front of them to bring the franchise back to a playoff level. Yes, things may be worse than you think.

 

The reality is that the Bills need a strarting QB, two offensive tackles and upgrades at linebacker. Add in the uncertainty of Schobel's return (with Denney a free agent, Ellis a bust and Maybin a potential bust), Owens' return (with Reed a free agent and Hardy a potential bust), and the severity of some of the in season injuries (Butler, Wood, Mitchell and McGee), and the Bills may be facing, at a minimum, the need to replace talent at DE and WR as well, and possibly other positions. Even if the Bills find a talented QB in the draft, it will likely take a couple of years before he is playing at a high level. With the defense, although the pass defense was decent, it is unclear to me whether this is because of their strong play or because the rush defense was so poor. Clearly, the team may need upgrades at DT (in addition to the need at LB and DE).

 

I may be in the minority, but I think that this team, particularly later in the season, played above their talent level. Going into this season, our o-line was a mess, and with the injuries, was worse as the season progressed. The talent at LB was weak, and declined further with the injuries to Mitchell and Ellison. The only area with depth has been the secondary. McKelvin's injury allowed Florence to start, and he played very well. Wilson seemed to play well as a replacement and Byrd was awesome as a rookie. How Whitner fits in for the future, I am not sure. I usually disagree with other posters when they suggest that players should be cut if they have big salaries and may not be full time starters, but with regard to Whitner, it may be okay. I have not been impressed with his play at all this year and it seems that the Bills have a decent replacement in Wilson.

 

One potential positive is that the team must have significant cap space. Much of the higher priced "talent" is no longer with the team (Dockery, Walker and Peters) and we may lose some free agents (Denney and Reed). It will become a question as to whether the team will spend money, assuming there are free agents available.

 

All of this underscores the need for a real football GM to revive the franchise. This will be a big job, and the Bills will need the right person to fix the mess. A band-aid at this point will mean a further decline (if that is possible) and no playoffs for years to come.

[Beebe's Kid]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I do think that the Bills have a major rebuilding job in front of them to bring the franchise back to a playoff level. Yes, things may be worse than you think.

 

The reality is that the Bills need a strarting QB, two offensive tackles and upgrades at linebacker. Add in the uncertainty of Schobel's return (with Denney a free agent, Ellis a bust and Maybin a potential bust), Owens' return (with Reed a free agent and Hardy a potential bust), and the severity of some of the in season injuries (Butler, Wood, Mitchell and McGee), and the Bills may be facing, at a minimum, the need to replace talent at DE and WR as well, and possibly other positions. Even if the Bills find a talented QB in the draft, it will likely take a couple of years before he is playing at a high level. With the defense, although the pass defense was decent, it is unclear to me whether this is because of their strong play or because the rush defense was so poor. Clearly, the team may need upgrades at DT (in addition to the need at LB and DE).

 

I may be in the minority, but I think that this team, particularly later in the season, played above their talent level. Going into this season, our o-line was a mess, and with the injuries, was worse as the season progressed. The talent at LB was weak, and declined further with the injuries to Mitchell and Ellison. The only area with depth has been the secondary. McKelvin's injury allowed Florence to start, and he played very well. Wilson seemed to play well as a replacement and Byrd was awesome as a rookie. How Whitner fits in for the future, I am not sure. I usually disagree with other posters when they suggest that players should be cut if they have big salaries and may not be full time starters, but with regard to Whitner, it may be okay. I have not been impressed with his play at all this year and it seems that the Bills have a decent replacement in Wilson.

 

One potential positive is that the team must have significant cap space. Much of the higher priced "talent" is no longer with the team (Dockery, Walker and Peters) and we may lose some free agents (Denney and Reed). It will become a question as to whether the team will spend money, assuming there are free agents available.

 

All of this underscores the need for a real football GM to revive the franchise. This will be a big job, and the Bills will need the right person to fix the mess. A band-aid at this point will mean a further decline (if that is possible) and no playoffs for years to come.

This is covered in about 193,245 other threads on here. Although, you have a very fresh insight on the QB and OT situation, not talent, complete rebuild blah blah blah blah.

 

Thanks for your pessimism.

[DDD]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I do think that the Bills have a major rebuilding job in front of them to bring the franchise back to a playoff level. Yes, things may be worse than you think.

 

The reality is that the Bills need a strarting QB, two offensive tackles and upgrades at linebacker. Add in the uncertainty of Schobel's return (with Denney a free agent, Ellis a bust and Maybin a potential bust), Owens' return (with Reed a free agent and Hardy a potential bust), and the severity of some of the in season injuries (Butler, Wood, Mitchell and McGee), and the Bills may be facing, at a minimum, the need to replace talent at DE and WR as well, and possibly other positions. Even if the Bills find a talented QB in the draft, it will likely take a couple of years before he is playing at a high level. With the defense, although the pass defense was decent, it is unclear to me whether this is because of their strong play or because the rush defense was so poor. Clearly, the team may need upgrades at DT (in addition to the need at LB and DE).

 

I may be in the minority, but I think that this team, particularly later in the season, played above their talent level. Going into this season, our o-line was a mess, and with the injuries, was worse as the season progressed. The talent at LB was weak, and declined further with the injuries to Mitchell and Ellison. The only area with depth has been the secondary. McKelvin's injury allowed Florence to start, and he played very well. Wilson seemed to play well as a replacement and Byrd was awesome as a rookie. How Whitner fits in for the future, I am not sure. I usually disagree with other posters when they suggest that players should be cut if they have big salaries and may not be full time starters, but with regard to Whitner, it may be okay. I have not been impressed with his play at all this year and it seems that the Bills have a decent replacement in Wilson.

 

One potential positive is that the team must have significant cap space. Much of the higher priced "talent" is no longer with the team (Dockery, Walker and Peters) and we may lose some free agents (Denney and Reed). It will become a question as to whether the team will spend money, assuming there are free agents available.

 

All of this underscores the need for a real football GM to revive the franchise. This will be a big job, and the Bills will need the right person to fix the mess. A band-aid at this point will mean a further decline (if that is possible) and no playoffs for years to come.

 

This just in: Ralph Wilson chooses Buffalo over Miami for new AFL franchise.

[Deadstroke]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I do think that the Bills have a major rebuilding job in front of them to bring the franchise back to a playoff level. Yes, things may be worse than you think.

 

The reality is that the Bills need a strarting QB, two offensive tackles and upgrades at linebacker. Add in the uncertainty of Schobel's return (with Denney a free agent, Ellis a bust and Maybin a potential bust), Owens' return (with Reed a free agent and Hardy a potential bust), and the severity of some of the in season injuries (Butler, Wood, Mitchell and McGee), and the Bills may be facing, at a minimum, the need to replace talent at DE and WR as well, and possibly other positions. Even if the Bills find a talented QB in the draft, it will likely take a couple of years before he is playing at a high level. With the defense, although the pass defense was decent, it is unclear to me whether this is because of their strong play or because the rush defense was so poor. Clearly, the team may need upgrades at DT (in addition to the need at LB and DE).

 

 

Then again there may be an optimistic way of looking at it......

 

----We MAY be able to go with Brohm; at least for next year. Who knows, huh?

 

----Butler and Wood have a good chance of a full recovery leaving us 1 LT short of a potentially above average OL.

 

----WR I say we're not as weak as people think, but look to FA and draft wisely.

 

----On the "D" strictly my opinion BUT if we go to a 3-4 and Schobel likes what he sees in Mgt, etc and stays I think we at least have a heck of a nucleus of a good "D". Look... the deep 4, 5, and 6 DB's are set, then at LB's Mitchell, Poz, and MAYBIN (yeah, a natural switch for him), and that leaves needing one more either by draft or FA. Then on the DL, start with Schobel, for another year or two anyway, while IMO the other DE currently would have to be a Kelsey and Spencer Johnson split or of course draft or FA; and obviously the NT would be a giant priority. Count it, that's only 2 or 3 players short!

 

Not perfect I grant you, but not too shabby either. A good draft to go along with it, good coaching, avoid injuries for once, and a 10-6 playoff scenario is very possible.

[BillsVet]

This is covered in about 193,245 other threads on here. Although, you have a very fresh insight on the QB and OT situation, not talent, complete rebuild blah blah blah blah.

 

Thanks for your pessimism.

 

You're new here. And I'm guessing for the better part of the decade you didn't watch a team which is going on 10 years without a playoff appearance. So pardon the OP for laying it out. Buffalo isn't at a Rams or Bucs level, but they could be real quickly.

 

Here's the deal: Buffalo is woefully thin at the critical positions. There is no QB, their top (and admittedly declining DE who I like) is considering retirement, they have no OT on the roster right now that is capable of starting (sorry Bell and Meredith fans, it's a dream) and there's no one running the football side of the house that's knows anything about personnel.

 

This team, especially if old man Wilson springs for a new GM, is in line for a major house cleaning. The only positions I'd say are somewhat decent are CB, S, and RB. Aside from that, they're aging at DL, lack talent at OT, and don't have a QB play.

[Red]

I agree that we are woefully short at a number of positions. Schobel's contemplation may be truthful, but there also may be some desire to give the front office a kick in their collective @$$es that time is growing short on his career and he would probably like to see the playoffs before he rides off into the sunset and settles in Texas.

 

The Bills owe him that much.

 

Now with all of the promises from Thurman, well, Christmas has now come and gone. Aren't we supposed to be seeing some radical changes in Bills land? Something about under our tree as fans?

 

Thurman?

[vincec]

Forget signing new free agents. It's a money pit and not worth it in the vast majority of cases. The Bills need to sign their own good players for a change instead of letting them go and then address weaknesses through the draft instead of just trying to fill the holes they just created.

 

For example, if we didn't let Greer go, we wouldn't of had to spend our #1 on McKelvin and if we'd of resigned Peters, we wouldn't be looking at spending next year's #1 on an OT. There are many more examples of this. Ideally, the only reason a player should be allowed to leave via FA is if he's not playing well anymore and you have his replacement on your roster and ready to go.

[John from Riverside]

The good news is it isn't the entire offensive line......as the Center and Guard positions are pretty well covered....

 

Also....I think we will be ok at RT between Bell and Butler

 

LT is a mess......its a good thing Ralph is willing to spend money....

[Sisyphean Bills]

One potential positive is that the team must have significant cap space. Much of the higher priced "talent" is no longer with the team (Dockery, Walker and Peters) and we may lose some free agents (Denney and Reed). It will become a question as to whether the team will spend money, assuming there are free agents available.

 

All of this underscores the need for a real football GM to revive the franchise. This will be a big job, and the Bills will need the right person to fix the mess. A band-aid at this point will mean a further decline (if that is possible) and no playoffs for years to come.

Which isn't much of a positive since the NFL appears to be on course for an uncapped year.

 

I do think that there is some talent on this roster but not enough and not at the key positions for success.

[spartacus]

The good news is it isn't the entire offensive line......as the Center and Guard positions are pretty well covered....

 

Also....I think we will be ok at RT between Bell and Butler

 

LT is a mess......its a good thing Ralph is willing to spend money....

 

Wood may never play again

 

Butler has not been healthy for more than a few games in a row in his entire career and Bell has never been healthy period.

 

good guys to build around - if they were even functional to begin with (which they are not)

 

The OL is a complete mess - but at least the Bills saved $15 mil in 2009 by getting rid of the only guys that actually played.

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

If the Bills don't find better people for picking better players then forget about any rebuilding, it just won't happen

[Flbillsfan#1]

Wood may never play again

 

Butler has not been healthy for more than a few games in a row in his entire career and Bell has never been healthy period.

 

good guys to build around - if they were even functional to begin with (which they are not)

 

The OL is a complete mess - but at least the Bills saved $15 mil in 2009 by getting rid of the only guys that actually played.

Wood broke his leg, he did not injure a joint, which can be MUCH more serious. All reports are that he will be fine.

[Dan]

I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I do think that the Bills have a major rebuilding job in front of them to bring the franchise back to a playoff level. Yes, things may be worse than you think.

 

The reality is that the Bills need a strarting QB, two offensive tackles and upgrades at linebacker. Add in the uncertainty of Schobel's return (with Denney a free agent, Ellis a bust and Maybin a potential bust), Owens' return (with Reed a free agent and Hardy a potential bust), and the severity of some of the in season injuries (Butler, Wood, Mitchell and McGee), and the Bills may be facing, at a minimum, the need to replace talent at DE and WR as well, and possibly other positions. Even if the Bills find a talented QB in the draft, it will likely take a couple of years before he is playing at a high level. With the defense, although the pass defense was decent, it is unclear to me whether this is because of their strong play or because the rush defense was so poor. Clearly, the team may need upgrades at DT (in addition to the need at LB and DE).

 

I may be in the minority, but I think that this team, particularly later in the season, played above their talent level. Going into this season, our o-line was a mess, and with the injuries, was worse as the season progressed. The talent at LB was weak, and declined further with the injuries to Mitchell and Ellison. The only area with depth has been the secondary. McKelvin's injury allowed Florence to start, and he played very well. Wilson seemed to play well as a replacement and Byrd was awesome as a rookie. How Whitner fits in for the future, I am not sure. I usually disagree with other posters when they suggest that players should be cut if they have big salaries and may not be full time starters, but with regard to Whitner, it may be okay. I have not been impressed with his play at all this year and it seems that the Bills have a decent replacement in Wilson.

 

One potential positive is that the team must have significant cap space. Much of the higher priced "talent" is no longer with the team (Dockery, Walker and Peters) and we may lose some free agents (Denney and Reed). It will become a question as to whether the team will spend money, assuming there are free agents available.

 

All of this underscores the need for a real football GM to revive the franchise. This will be a big job, and the Bills will need the right person to fix the mess. A band-aid at this point will mean a further decline (if that is possible) and no playoffs for years to come.

Well, that is a pessimistic spin. However, the flip side is... things may be better than you think.

 

Yes, the Bills need a starting QB. But, perhaps Brohm has matured and learned something sitting on the sidelines. Perhaps he becomes a decent starter. Perhaps there's one or more FA pickups this offseason that give us a decent starter while a yong draft pick matures.

 

Maybe we only need 1 offensive tackle. In the very limited time that Butler played at RT, he seemed good. Maybe with w decent training staff he finally stays healthey for a full season. And with Bell or Merideth as backups, perhaps we havea little depth there. So, draft the top LT in the draft and a big hole is filled.

 

OK. so we need an upgrade at 1 LB position. Seems like one draft pick could solve that.

 

Maybin is no more of a potential bust than any other rookie that recieves limited playing time. He could just as easily be a potential super star. So, maybe we give him some time to develop? Even with Schobel's possible retirement, a decent FA or draft pick and it could be lessened.

 

Hardy, again, is just as much a potential Super star as he is a bust. He's gotten almost zero playing time; so who knows how he'll perform when actually given a chance. So, Owens leaves. Who cares? Reed may be a FA, but why can't he be re-signed?

 

All the severe injuries (Wood, Butler, Mitchell, and McGee) should heal perfectly fine and the players be ready to excel next year. Wood is the only one I miht be concerned about, but all indications are that it was a clean break and he should recover fine.

 

The team certainly needs upgrades at several positions (DE, LB, DT, OL). But, with a new GM/C won't that be their job to find those replacements? Is that any different than abotu 28 other teams in the league every offseason? Who's not looking to upgrade 3 or 4 positions on their team?

 

Ralph has given every indication that he intends to hire a real GM and HC this offseason and completely revamp the FO, if needed. Let's see how that plays out. We could see the hirings of several individuals that overhaul our scouting department ans set this franchise up for years of continued success.

 

Are my views overly optimisitic? No more than yours are overly pessimistic, IMO.

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

Well, that is a pessimistic spin. However, the flip side is... things may be better than you think.

 

Yes, the Bills need a starting QB. But, perhaps Brohm has matured and learned something sitting on the sidelines. Perhaps he becomes a decent starter. Perhaps there's one or more FA pickups this offseason that give us a decent starter while a yong draft pick matures.

 

Maybe we only need 1 offensive tackle. In the very limited time that Butler played at RT, he seemed good. Maybe with w decent training staff he finally stays healthey for a full season. And with Bell or Merideth as backups, perhaps we havea little depth there. So, draft the top LT in the draft and a big hole is filled.

 

OK. so we need an upgrade at 1 LB position. Seems like one draft pick could solve that.

 

Maybin is no more of a potential bust than any other rookie that recieves limited playing time. He could just as easily be a potential super star. So, maybe we give him some time to develop? Even with Schobel's possible retirement, a decent FA or draft pick and it could be lessened.

 

Hardy, again, is just as much a potential Super star as he is a bust. He's gotten almost zero playing time; so who knows how he'll perform when actually given a chance. So, Owens leaves. Who cares? Reed may be a FA, but why can't he be re-signed?

 

All the severe injuries (Wood, Butler, Mitchell, and McGee) should heal perfectly fine and the players be ready to excel next year. Wood is the only one I miht be concerned about, but all indications are that it was a clean break and he should recover fine.

 

The team certainly needs upgrades at several positions (DE, LB, DT, OL). But, with a new GM/C won't that be their job to find those replacements? Is that any different than abotu 28 other teams in the league every offseason? Who's not looking to upgrade 3 or 4 positions on their team?

 

Ralph has given every indication that he intends to hire a real GM and HC this offseason and completely revamp the FO, if needed. Let's see how that plays out. We could see the hirings of several individuals that overhaul our scouting department ans set this franchise up for years of continued success.

 

Are my views overly optimisitic? No more than yours are overly pessimistic, IMO.

I'll pass judgement on the optomism/pessimisim side after I see who Ralph convinces to come in and take the job and how much house cleaning they do. The problem with this team is all front office, as I see it

[Dan]

I'll pass judgement on the optomism/pessimisim side after I see who Ralph convinces to come in and take the job and how much house cleaning they do. The problem with this team is all front office, as I see it

I would completely agree. My whole point is things can look really bad or look pretty good; it all just depends on how you want to see it. But, until the new GM/HC is hired, we really have no idea how this team will change. Even with the new hires, it may be several months before we see what the new plan is, if any.

[sharper802]

Then again there may be an optimistic way of looking at it......

 

----We MAY be able to go with Brohm; at least for next year. Who knows, huh?

 

----Butler and Wood have a good chance of a full recovery leaving us 1 LT short of a potentially above average OL.

 

----WR I say we're not as weak as people think, but look to FA and draft wisely.

 

----On the "D" strictly my opinion BUT if we go to a 3-4 and Schobel likes what he sees in Mgt, etc and stays I think we at least have a heck of a nucleus of a good "D". Look... the deep 4, 5, and 6 DB's are set, then at LB's Mitchell, Poz, and MAYBIN (yeah, a natural switch for him), and that leaves needing one more either by draft or FA. Then on the DL, start with Schobel, for another year or two anyway, while IMO the other DE currently would have to be a Kelsey and Spencer Johnson split or of course draft or FA; and obviously the NT would be a giant priority. Count it, that's only 2 or 3 players short!

 

Not perfect I grant you, but not too shabby either. A good draft to go along with it, good coaching, avoid injuries for once, and a 10-6 playoff scenario is very possible.

 

Why is everyone giving up on D Bell? I agree a LT is the top priority in the draft but Bell stil has a chance to develop. OLB is a must!

[Adam]

What we need is to get the behind the scenes people (President, General Manager and scouts) as well as our coaching staff set as quickly as possible- we have no idea what we want to do personnel-wise until that is accomplished.

 

Do we want a power based attack? If so, Jason Campbell may be available, and he is the downfield-type QB that can complement the running game. In this cane, we need to determine the run-blocking scheme (man or zone) and find the OLs that fit the scheme. Lee Evans would be the downfield threat, but would need a compliment. Not sure Nelson is the top choise in this type of attack. Lynch is the obvious #1 featre back in this case, but we would need a fullback.

 

Do we want the in-vouge short passing game? In this case, Campbell is not a fit, but we need to find someone like Edwards, who is ready to get rid of the ball as soon as he completes his drop. Evans should move to the slot. Hardy may become one of our workhorses either in the slot of outside-likely in the slot). We likely need one WR who will catch about 10 passes per game. Pass blocking OLs who have the mobility to get out on screens are of utmost importance. Lynch becomes the fullback and Jackson could see time in the slot.

 

Same stuff for defense- what schemes and formations are we looking for? It has a major impact on talent aquisition

[....lybob]

Easy fix

 

Free Agency: Ray Edwards DE, Johnny Jolly DT, Vince Jackson WR

 

Draft: 1. LT, 2. RT, 3-7 LB, LB, LB, LB

 

undrafted Free Agents OGs, blocking TEs,

 

Player Development- Kettlebells, Sandbags, tire flipping, plyometrics, whole body vibration, hypnosis, bone density therapy, EFT, Neural transmitter exercise, Eye-Q, advanced nutrition, gene therapy, myostatin inhibitors, stem cell remolding, guided visualization, Tabata cycle, full body computer generated video scenario stimulation, orgone energy tattoos.

[BillsfaninFl]

Easy fix

 

Free Agency: Ray Edwards DE, Johnny Jolly DT, Vince Jackson WR

 

Draft: 1. LT, 2. RT, 3-7 LB, LB, LB, LB

 

undrafted Free Agents OGs, blocking TEs,

 

Player Development- Kettlebells, Sandbags, tire flipping, plyometrics, whole body vibration, hypnosis, bone density therapy, EFT, Neural transmitter exercise, Eye-Q, advanced nutrition, gene therapy, myostatin inhibitors, stem cell remolding, guided visualization, Tabata cycle, full body computer generated video scenario stimulation, orgone energy tattoos.

 

Welcome to this group. I can already tell that you are going to fit right in.

[evilcape]

Then again there may be an optimistic way of looking at it......

 

----We MAY be able to go with Brohm; at least for next year. Who knows, huh?

 

----Butler and Wood have a good chance of a full recovery leaving us 1 LT short of a potentially above average OL.

 

----WR I say we're not as weak as people think, but look to FA and draft wisely.

 

----On the "D" strictly my opinion BUT if we go to a 3-4 and Schobel likes what he sees in Mgt, etc and stays I think we at least have a heck of a nucleus of a good "D". Look... the deep 4, 5, and 6 DB's are set, then at LB's Mitchell, Poz, and MAYBIN (yeah, a natural switch for him), and that leaves needing one more either by draft or FA. Then on the DL, start with Schobel, for another year or two anyway, while IMO the other DE currently would have to be a Kelsey and Spencer Johnson split or of course draft or FA; and obviously the NT would be a giant priority. Count it, that's only 2 or 3 players short!

 

Not perfect I grant you, but not too shabby either. A good draft to go along with it, good coaching, avoid injuries for once, and a 10-6 playoff scenario is very possible.

LOL! apparantly you do not understand what type of personnel you need for a 3-4 defense. You think Schobel could be a 3-4 end? at just a listed weight of 243 pounds? And Kelsay the other at the other spot? how about someone who weighs as much as our current D tackles. You need 2 huge ends and one giagantic SOB to clog the middle. why would you want to keep those guys around? let him retire and plug a big dude in there instead, even if he's a middle round draft pick.