Admin: Tarmac waits limited to 3 hours

[RI Bills Fan]

...realize whats really going on and stop with your holier than thou bull ****.

 

I believe that this may well qualify as the single most ironic statement of the decade.

 

Despite the basic truth of the rant precedeing it.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Oh yeah...its a simple feat really....launching a fifty ton combination of metal, jet fuel and human beings into the air, up to about eight miles up, with tens of thousands of other similar devices up there at the same time, travelling thousands of miles to a destination, and then bringing it back to the ground with barely more than some noise and a rush of reverse thrust.

 

Thats the point...Im not "defending" the airlines as much as Im mocking the completely UNREALISTIC and downright laughable expectations of folks like yourself. The airlines could certainly do a better job. There is no excuse for the sitation like what happenned with some of those ten hour horror stories. But in general, people need to realize aviation is bloody complicated and downright dangerous, and the amount of effort to make the system work properly on a daily basis is tremendous. So yeah....every now and then...you have a wait a few hours for situations to be resolved and things to work out. And when youre stuck in those sitations, realize whats really going on and stop with your holier than thou bull ****.

I hope I never set next to you on a flight.

Doing repairs on a taxiway is complete BS. Why did no one check the plane prior to leaving the gate? Is there something about taxiing a few thousand feet that is impossible to duplicate prior to the[PAYING] passengers geting on?

[Alaska Darin]

I hope I never set next to you on a flight. Is there something about taxiing a few thousand feet that is impossible to duplicate prior to the[PAYING] passengers geting on?

Yes. Airplanes are complicated and sometimes **** just fails. On occasion, that's at a very inopportune moment.

[Chef Jim]

Yes. Airplanes are complicated and sometimes **** just fails. On occasion, that's at a very inopportune moment.

 

Yes, kind of like the time I was on a plane during takeoff and the rear engine (DC-10) blew up. Scariest thing to every happen to me in my life.

[RkFast]

I hope I never set next to you on a flight.

Doing repairs on a taxiway is complete BS. Why did no one check the plane prior to leaving the gate? Is there something about taxiing a few thousand feet that is impossible to duplicate prior to the[PAYING] passengers geting on?

 

Ya know....youre right.....and to make sure this happens, the airlines will have, like what someone mentioned earlier, "ready to go" spares at every airport, more maintainence personel and FULL aircraft checks before every flight.

 

Oh by the way....the $150 fare you just paid will now be $450 AND youll now have ONE option to fly to your destination per day, not three. This is to make sure there is plenty of time for the full pre-flight check for every departure you demand.

 

I assume youre OK with that.

[RkFast]

Yes. Airplanes are complicated and sometimes **** just fails. On occasion, that's at a very inopportune moment.

 

Yeah...like when the throttles are advanced to takeoff power. But according to folks, they should do that at the gate!!!!

[Jim in Anchorage]

Yeah...like when the throttles are advanced to takeoff power. But according to folks, they should do that at the gate!!!!

You need climb power to check the hydraulics? The instrument panel? We are not talking about aborted take offs here.

If Commercial planes are breaking at such a alarming rate merely taxiing from the gate to the runway it looks like the whole certification process needs to be overhauled.

I get the impression from you that you think the airlines are doing you some sort of favor by leting you hop a ride on one of their planes. No it's called a "paying customer" and thats why they exist at all.

[RkFast]

You need climb power to check the hydraulics? The instrument panel? We are not talking about aborted take offs here.

If Commercial planes are breaking at such a alarming rate merely taxiing from the gate to the runway it looks like the whole certification process needs to be overhauled.

I get the impression from you that you think the airlines are doing you some sort of favor by leting you hop a ride on one of their planes. No it's called a "paying customer" and thats why they exist at all.

 

No, actually...we ARE talking about aborted takeoffs. What do you think happens when a 757 taxis into position, the pilot flicks on the strobes, brings the throttles up to 92% N1...but then the EGT or N2 gauge doesnt play along? Hes pulling off the runway, parking on the taxiway and going to run some checks, thats what. And then...proably going to pull up to the company tarmac where a repair crew will check over the bird right then and there with the passengers still on board. And after two hours or so, the ground crew will give him the go ahead or they will cancel the flight depending on what they find.

 

Again...repairs are dont on the fly MOST of the time...beucase an airline's planes have to do that funny thing called "generate revenue." And do do that, they have to do what they are built to do...fly. A lot. Almost constantly. To illustrate how much work an airliner gets further...next time you fly, when the engines are started if you DONT smell a whiff of kerosene (Jet A, more or less), the plane youre on was in the air probably not even an hour or two ago. And Id guarantee you wont experience this on 90% of the flights you fly.

[Adam]

Nothing's going to be perfect, but there is no excuse for keeping passengers onboard if the plane is on the ground more than a half hour.

[Jim in Anchorage]

No, actually...we ARE talking about aborted takeoffs. What do you think happens when a 757 taxis into position, the pilot flicks on the strobes, brings the throttles up to 92% N1...but then the EGT or N2 gauge doesnt play along? Hes pulling off the runway, parking on the taxiway and going to run some checks, thats what. And then...proably going to pull up to the company tarmac where a repair crew will check over the bird right then and there with the passengers still on board. And after two hours or so, the ground crew will give him the go ahead or they will cancel the flight depending on what they find.

 

Again...repairs are dont on the fly MOST of the time...beucase an airline's planes have to do that funny thing called "generate revenue." And do do that, they have to do what they are built to do...fly. A lot. Almost constantly. To illustrate how much work an airliner gets further...next time you fly, when the engines are started if you DONT smell a whiff of kerosene (Jet A, more or less), the plane youre on was in the air probably not even an hour or two ago. And Id guarantee you wont experience this on 90% of the flights you fly.

That reassures me that the pilot who landed the plane a hour ago didn't notice a Major engine failure. I am not a jet or turbine pilot, but a EGT issue should be caught in flight. Or again are these planes experiencing major mechanical failures during the taxi? I suspect you play to much Microsoft flight simulator.

[Just Jack]

Oh yes, there will. Hope the cockroach motel you wind up at becuase your flight was cancelled is comfortable.

I've stayed at a few hotels around JFK so I know which ones to avoid.

[Just Jack]

Ya know....youre right.....and to make sure this happens, the airlines will have, like what someone mentioned earlier, "ready to go" spares at every airport, more maintainence personel and FULL aircraft checks before every flight.

Someone on my flight mentioned they should send a spare plane for us to transfer to. I'm thinking 'you're an idiot lady'. The spare would have to come from China, a 14 hour flight. Not like airports keep spare planes for any airline to use.

[DC Tom]

That reassures me that the pilot who landed the plane a hour ago didn't notice a Major engine failure. I am not a jet or turbine pilot, but a EGT issue should be caught in flight. Or again are these planes experiencing major mechanical failures during the taxi? I suspect you play to much Microsoft flight simulator.

 

Maybe an EGT issue doesn't occur in flight, but when the engines are spooled up after sitting at the gate for an hour. And maybe if a major engine failure is diagnosed, they actually do disembark passengers and park the plane for a full-up inspection?

 

Which I have had happen to me. Spent twelve hours on a 1-hour layover in St Louis once, because the plane that had just landed had a major engine fault leaving the gate. They had to bring us back, empty the plane, tow it into the hangar and fix the engine. (Ten hours later, they come to us passangers and say "Here's your choices - we think we've fixed it, so you can leave now. Or we have another plane inbound from Seattle, we can put you on that one in an hour." Everyone says "We'll take the one in the hangar"; me and one other guy say "Did you hear the part where they said they THINK they've fixed it? Are you people nuts?" and talked 60 other people into waiting. People are idiots.)

 

The bottom line, though, is that you're insane if you think every plane newly-arrived requires a thorough walk-around before takeoff, and any fault is a major one requiring immediate grounding and shut-down of the plane pending further diagnosis.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Maybe an EGT issue doesn't occur in flight, but when the engines are spooled up after sitting at the gate for an hour. And maybe if a major engine failure is diagnosed, they actually do disembark passengers and park the plane for a full-up inspection?

 

Which I have had happen to me. Spent twelve hours on a 1-hour layover in St Louis once, because the plane that had just landed had a major engine fault leaving the gate. They had to bring us back, empty the plane, tow it into the hangar and fix the engine. (Ten hours later, they come to us passangers and say "Here's your choices - we think we've fixed it, so you can leave now. Or we have another plane inbound from Seattle, we can put you on that one in an hour." Everyone says "We'll take the one in the hangar"; me and one other guy say "Did you hear the part where they said they THINK they've fixed it? Are you people nuts?" and talked 60 other people into waiting. People are idiots.)

 

The bottom line, though, is that you're insane if you think every plane newly-arrived requires a thorough walk-around before takeoff, and any fault is a major one requiring immediate grounding and shut-down of the plane pending further diagnosis.

Thats the key point off the whole thread. They took you back. you are a paying passenger on a flight, not a thief rounded up on a patty wagon.

[RkFast]

Thats the key point off the whole thread. They took you back. you are a paying passenger on a flight, not a thief rounded up on a patty wagon.

 

No, actually the point of the whole thead is that 95% of the flying public are douchebag "me first" loudmouths without an ant's dick of understanding of how airline operations really work.

 

By the way...last time I go caught in the sitatuation described above....they pulled us back to the gates, opened all the doors, loaded food and water, gave us a good estimate of when the plane would be ready to go...and gave us the option to leave, if we wanted to.

[DC Tom]

Thats the key point off the whole thread. They took you back. you are a paying passenger on a flight, not a thief rounded up on a patty wagon.

 

"Paddy wagon", you nit.

 

And while that is the key point of the whole thread, and while they did disembark my plane (probably because they knew it wasn't taking off any time soon), you decided to make it about how aircraft maintenance is an absolute.

 

But while we're returning to the key point of the thread...I recall a six-hour delay I had once in Alabama. A dinky little Embraer regional jet couldn't take off at first because of incoming weather in Montgomery, then was delayed further because of predicted severe weather in DC. Didn't mind the delay, actually - taking off and landing a dinky little Embraer in severe thunderstorms isn't something I'd particularly look forward to...but I can't help wondering if, under this "three hour rule", the airline would have just taken the risk instead.

[Booster4324]

"Paddy wagon", you nit.

 

And while that is the key point of the whole thread, and while they did disembark my plane (probably because they knew it wasn't taking off any time soon), you decided to make it about how aircraft maintenance is an absolute.

 

But while we're returning to the key point of the thread...I recall a six-hour delay I had once in Alabama. A dinky little Embraer regional jet couldn't take off at first because of incoming weather in Montgomery, then was delayed further because of predicted severe weather in DC. Didn't mind the delay, actually - taking off and landing a dinky little Embraer in severe thunderstorms isn't something I'd particularly look forward to...but I can't help wondering if, under this "three hour rule", the airline would have just taken the risk instead.

 

Ouch, that sounds like a real possibility. I have a question, what percentage of flights have been delayed more than 3 hours and the passengers were kept aboard?

[John Adams]

I can't believe that I agree with Rkfast.

 

More motherment. If you can't sit still for 3 hours on someone else's schedule, don't fly.

[RkFast]

"Paddy wagon", you nit.

 

And while that is the key point of the whole thread, and while they did disembark my plane (probably because they knew it wasn't taking off any time soon), you decided to make it about how aircraft maintenance is an absolute.

 

But while we're returning to the key point of the thread...I recall a six-hour delay I had once in Alabama. A dinky little Embraer regional jet couldn't take off at first because of incoming weather in Montgomery, then was delayed further because of predicted severe weather in DC. Didn't mind the delay, actually - taking off and landing a dinky little Embraer in severe thunderstorms isn't something I'd particularly look forward to...but I can't help wondering if, under this "three hour rule", the airline would have just taken the risk instead.

 

This illustrates why I reallly think the rule is a bad idea. I think more oftne than not, they wont go, but cancel the flight all together....which is EXACTLY what the airlines mean here. More cancelations, not less.

 

I do almost feel bad for the airlines. Name me one other industry where people DEMAND top shelf service and REFUSE to pay more thasn $5 over bargain basement prices for it.

[DC Tom]

Name me one other industry where people DEMAND top shelf service and REFUSE to pay more thasn $5 over bargain basement prices for it.

 

Medical.