Fewell733 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 also it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" that requires any kind of a shadowy plot. It's just that the refs, as league employees, know what's the better outcome for the league. It doesn't mean they can choose a winner, but they sure can guide a game in a certain direction. its just gotten to the point where, against the Pats, any big play made by the opposition (and especially smaller market teams) I'm actually surprised if there isn't a flag that wipes out the play - it's just happened so often over the past decade
dave mcbride Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 also it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" that requires any kind of a shadowy plot. It's just that the refs, as league employees, know what's the better outcome for the league. It doesn't mean they can choose a winner, but they sure can guide a game in a certain direction. its just gotten to the point where, against the Pats, any big play made by the opposition (and especially smaller market teams) I'm actually surprised if there isn't a flag that wipes out the play - it's just happened so often over the past decade It probably would have been better for the league if the Bills had beaten the Browns given that it was a home game in which Ralph Wilson was honored at halftime. Yet the calls didn't reflect that because the Bills actually committed more penalties than their opponents. Just like yesterday.
NY Nole Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I also believe the Bills would have lost the game even with better officiating -- but the refs were terrible. The play I would like to highlight is the QB in the grasp called on the Bills. Tell me if that weren't Brady -- the pass completion wouldn't have been allowed.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Not blaming the refs for the loss, but no question the officiating was pretty one-sided Sunday. PTR
DFITZ1 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 also it doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" that requires any kind of a shadowy plot. It's just that the refs, as league employees, know what's the better outcome for the league. It doesn't mean they can choose a winner, but they sure can guide a game in a certain direction. its just gotten to the point where, against the Pats, any big play made by the opposition (and especially smaller market teams) I'm actually surprised if there isn't a flag that wipes out the play - it's just happened so often over the past decade Whenever I watch a game and question a call, I usually check player and coach reactions as to whether it was right or wrong. I didn't enough protest on the Bills side to believe the calls were overly favored. Maybin's offsides was obvious, the PI called Whitner was because Donte was not looking at the ball. The PI drawn by Welker was likely for the same reason, though it looked to me like Welker prevented Florence from making a break on the ball. However, if teh defender does not look at the ball, they are vulnerable for a PI call. As for non-calls such as Light on Schobel, you still need to check the whole game because I'm sure the Bills O-line (being so bad) got away with a few as well. If a call is bad, the coach has to get into the ear of the official. It won't change the play just called, but could affect a call later. This was one thing that Jauron never did, as if he would be spanked for complaining to an official. All coaches fill out a report on the officiating and the officiating for each game is reviewed during the week. If refs are favoring one team over another, I doubt it could last very long. Also, the refs are part time, and don't need to be officials nor need to honor hidden agendas for financial security, unlike the NBA or NHL. Also, if there were hidden agendas, I'm sure either the Giants, Jets (biggest market), and Cowboys (large national market and deep pocket owner) would be the top 3 teams right now.
bills in va Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 The officiating was terrible. Welker deserves an Oscar nomination for the "interference" call in the end zone. Holding not called, on Light, I believe. They did the replay several times to a chorus of boos. Hey NFL, make it official: -Give the patriots 5 downs on offense -Give patriots opponents 3 downs on offense -Penalize anyone who gets within 5 yards of Welker when he is catching the ball -15 yards and an ejection to a defender who hits Brady below the shoulders -Moss only needs one foot down with "questionable control" to make a catch in the end zone -Give "creative license" to the patriots coaching staff to make independent films -Let the Kraft family issue the guys in stripes a W-2 The refs are independent, right... BALONEY! Look what happened to Donaghy sp?, the NBA ref who had a gambling problem and was fixing games. Whose to say we don't have NFL refs, in debt to a bookie under Tony Soprano, needing to make a cool $100,00 for making a few questionable calls in order to guarantee a New England win/cover?
bills in va Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Remember the NBA ref Donaghy sp? He was the NBA ref who fixed games due to a gambling problem. Whose to say an NFL ref who owes his bookie and Tony Soprano big bucks won't fix a game. It would only take a few calls to ensure his team covers the spread. When I watch horrible calls that can't be explained, it makes me wonder sometimes.
DFITZ1 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Remember the NBA ref Donaghy sp? He was the NBA ref who fixed games due to a gambling problem. Whose to say an NFL ref who owes his bookie and Tony Soprano big bucks won't fix a game. It would only take a few calls to ensure his team covers the spread. When I watch horrible calls that can't be explained, it makes me wonder sometimes. On the flip side of Donaghy, there was the one NFL ref (I forget his name, big arms on him) who admitted he blew a call on a fumble that gave Denver a win over the Bolts in 2008. I think it harder to fix an NFL game (Tony Soprano style) because you have part time officials, and 7 officials per game. The NBA has 2 refs per game and is very subjective and has little that can be conclusively reviewed (I swear there's a foul on every shot).
Bills4154 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Well the refs helped. I don't think we are whiners as much as we are just stating what we observed in this game and games in the past involving the Patriots and Bob Kraft. Yeah Yeah and the referees moved the goal post on Norwood. This is way tired. You mean they didn't move the goal posts?
MattM Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 On the flip side of Donaghy, there was the one NFL ref (I forget his name, big arms on him) who admitted he blew a call on a fumble that gave Denver a win over the Bolts in 2008. I think it harder to fix an NFL game (Tony Soprano style) because you have part time officials, and 7 officials per game. The NBA has 2 refs per game and is very subjective and has little that can be conclusively reviewed (I swear there's a foul on every shot). It may be harder in the NFL, but the simple fact that it's happened in the Donaghy case and twice in Europe in major soccer leagues in recent times (the current dustup is small potatoes compared to the Italian soccer league scandal two years ago in which a large number of refs was apparently involved) means it can happen in the NFL, and money is money, it doesn't have to be gamblers calling the shots. Many, many folks have a large economic stake in the NFL and a particular team or outcome. To get to the top in a manner to allow yourself to buy an NFL team you might have to be pretty ruthless, no? Do you think guys like that always stop where the rules tell them to?
DrFishfinder Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 The unspoken NFL Conspiracy against the Bills is and has been going on for years. I can remember numerous games where the commentators were speechless regarding horrific penalties called against the Bills. I don't know that there is a damn thing that can be done about it.
cåblelady Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Not blaming the refs for the loss, but no question the officiating was pretty one-sided Sunday. PTR Right on.
DC Tom Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I also believe the Bills would have lost the game even with better officiating -- but the refs were terrible. The play I would like to highlight is the QB in the grasp called on the Bills. Tell me if that weren't Brady -- the pass completion wouldn't have been allowed. My favorite was the false start that was called, and the play blown dead, after Fitz completed a pass. Never seen that before. I wouldn't blame the officials for the loss - the Bills well and truly sucked yesterday. But the officiating was some of the worst in recent memory that I've seen, nonetheless.
The_Philster Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Not blaming the refs for the loss, but no question the officiating was pretty one-sided Sunday. PTR damn straight I will say this, though. It didn't seem quite as one-sided in the 2nd half...I wonder if Corrente (the referee) understood what I meant when I yelled at him as he walked by me through the tunnel at halftime, telling him that he's gonna get caught (with the biased officiating). Couple things to think about 6-3-1-3-11 Those numbers signify the number of penalties the Bills have incurred in each game since Perry took over....we had as many yesterday as we did in the previous 4 games combined. The Pats are well-known for getting favorable calls by the officials....and we get that many penalties in one game like that? There's 2 things I don't believe in...leprechauns and coincidence. Kraft's been influencing the officials since before Belichick...the "Just Give It To Them Game" is pretty strong evidence to that fact. But here's another issue....that false start by Andre Ramsey...put that one on the fans. The stupid ones, I mean...the ones who scream and yell and pound on seats during a critical offensive snap. High noise levels help the defense because it hurts the opposing offense. Too many !@#$ing Pats fans and apparently some supposed Bills fans who either wanted the Bills to lose or are just incredibly stupid. I miss the scrolling graphic that said Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh across the Jumbotron during critical offensive plays that they used to run a decade or so ago. Fans have gotten stupid since those days When the offense is on the field, the only time you make noise is to cheer a good play...but then you shut up before they break the huddle for the next play... simple common sense
BuffOrange Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 My favorite was the false start that was called, and the play blown dead, after Fitz completed a pass. Never seen that before. I didn't see that play, but it's funny that I thought the same thing happened on the Jackson TD false start. I guess TV sound can be deceiving, but I didn't hear a whistle (nor did the players apparently) until Jackson was in the endzone - despite the fact that the NE defender was "drawn off" a good 2 seconds before the ball was snapped. I wouldn't put it past the Pats to jump offsides on purpose in that situation to risk 1 yard vs. 5 when they couldn't stop the run. But yah we suck, wouldn't have mattered, etc.
DFITZ1 Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 It may be harder in the NFL, but the simple fact that it's happened in the Donaghy case and twice in Europe in major soccer leagues in recent times (the current dustup is small potatoes compared to the Italian soccer league scandal two years ago in which a large number of refs was apparently involved) means it can happen in the NFL, and money is money, it doesn't have to be gamblers calling the shots. Many, many folks have a large economic stake in the NFL and a particular team or outcome. To get to the top in a manner to allow yourself to buy an NFL team you might have to be pretty ruthless, no? Do you think guys like that always stop where the rules tell them to? I agree that it's possible. In any enterprise where certain events can sway big bucks, corruption is always a factor that must be looked out for. One thing that should make it harder in the NFL is that there are too many officiating crews and officials for that matter to sustain a New England Patsy conspiracy. Sooner or later, someone will blow the whistle (pun intended) or spill their guts. Also, with the voluminous amount of film and replay angles, it should be easier to expose biased officiating, even by 3rd parties. If the officiating was truely biased, someone on the Bills staff should be threatening to expose it if the league office has no answers. Despite the riskks of fines, if you let it them do it to you once, they're do it to youagain.
Hossage Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 I will not entertain the thought for one second that many poor NFL calls are made in good faith. It isnt hard to pay or intimidate someone in this world, and we know this is a betting league. Considering the outrageousness of some of the calls, I cannot doubt that this is being done with the blessing of the NFL. I watched the first eight games of last year in slow motion. Offside violations were called incorrectly 40% of the time. I do not accept that a referee, or any able bodied person, is that incompetent.
cåblelady Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 But here's another issue....that false start by Andre Ramsey...put that one on the fans. The stupid ones, I mean...the ones who scream and yell and pound on seats during a critical offensive snap. High noise levels help the defense because it hurts the opposing offense. Too many !@#$ing Pats fans and apparently some supposed Bills fans who either wanted the Bills to lose or are just incredibly stupid.I miss the scrolling graphic that said Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh across the Jumbotron during critical offensive plays that they used to run a decade or so ago. Fans have gotten stupid since those days When the offense is on the field, the only time you make noise is to cheer a good play...but then you shut up before they break the huddle for the next play... simple common sense That made me livid! Stupid Rockpile people! Grrrrrr!
The_Philster Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 That made me livid! Stupid Rockpile people! Grrrrrr! We had a bunch of idiots in the tunnel end zone doing it all game long, too
cåblelady Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 We had a bunch of idiots in the tunnel end zone doing it all game long, too Not the ones I told to STFU.
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